Is it time for a new Blue Book of pool cues?

Mr. Bass Man

Mr. Bass Man

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's been almost 20 years since the last edition and there are countless new makers that were either up and coming or relatively unknown at the time of the 3rd edition printing. I'm aware that often times the investment of energy hasn't always turned out to be lucrative however for the sake of history and documentation I believe these books are worth the effort. In the time that I've been on AZ we've lost some great and knowledgeable people and I feel as though if these things aren't documented periodically they have a tendency to get lost forever. What do you guys think?
 
Mr. Bass Man said:
It's been almost 20 years since the last edition and there are countless new makers that were either up and coming or relatively unknown at the time of the 3rd edition printing. I'm aware that often times the investment of energy hasn't always turned out to be lucrative however for the sake of history and documentation I believe these books are worth the effort. In the time that I've been on AZ we've lost some great and knowledgeable people and I feel as though if these things aren't documented periodically they have a tendency to get lost forever. What do you guys think?
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Get to work brother.
 
It's tough to build a book like that. The market fluctuates all the time. New builders, retired builders. And it's just a such niche market for something like that. Is it even that profitable? Their probably a reason for the 20 year gap.
 
I am sure the market fluctuates just like most collectibles, but still great books. Unfortunately, the publisher of the Blue Books, Steve Fjestad, passed away a few years ago.
 
JolietJames said:
At this point it would need to be a wiki page because builders are popping up every day.
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This would be a good idea, AZB may even be able to host it on their network. I mean ads for cues in a full on cue resource site would be ideal.
@azhousepro

I'm sure many of us would provide pictures and maker information to fill out the pages, and since there is quite a bit of action in the buy/sell forum the pricing is pretty set also for real world transactions as long as they actually happen. I mean this recent thread about two cues has valuations from under $2,000 for both to $4,000 for both https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/help-needed-to-cue-value.553582/#post-7534111 so unless they are actually sold, the value range is pretty wide.
 
I got books two and three. And thay are great sources of information.
But in today's world, I think it would take a long time, too meny new ones popping up.
To make any new book worth while. I think some type of data base, would be better.
So you could add the new ones, when thay come along
 
Cue Alchemist said:
I got books two and three. And thay are great sources of information.
But in today's world, I think it would take a long time, too meny new ones popping up.
To make any new book worth while. I think some type of data base, would be better.
So you could add the new ones, when thay come along
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Probably not practical but I think a hard copy as up to date as possible with a yearly updated website might be the ticket. People publishing things like the blue book used to send out an appendix every year, or sell one every year. A subscription to an internet site would probably be a reasonable alternative with four years of updates and a new book every five years.

I have the third edition. With the size, color pages, and quality I am unable to guess what a fourth edition the same overall book as the third edition would cost. At a guess something in the $150-$200 range might be right. Would there be a market at that price point for the book? It would be a massive investment of time and money to put a new bluebook together. I think a deal would have to be cut to make it a fourth edition in which case profits would probably be split in some manner.

Seems like a lot of time and risk for a very uncertain market. Sorry to say but I think we have seen the last of the bluebooks or something similar. An all internet effort might be possible but I suspect that being able to hold the book in hand and look at the beautiful photography is a big part of the value of the bluebooks. I wouldn't have the same interest in an internet site.

Hu
 
I see Brad about every week. I'll mention it to him. I know he's very busy with the gun business, a wife and a 4 yr old running around the house.
 
I could easily organize the data and present it in a sortable, filtered fashion.

The show-stopper would be vetting the submitted data. It would be not independently submitted by a verifiable source.

The analogy would be salary surveys. An engineer can go to a website and say this is his skill level and this is how much he makes. Is it? What if he overstates hoping to drive the average up? Whereas a professional salary survey company gets their data from an HR Department who match skill levels to a pre-defined description of skills and abilities and report the actual salary from payroll records.

So, I’d gather the data, build a website for folks to use, but how would you vett the submitted data? Short of submitting verifiable transaction receipts, you would have word-of-mouth, which is meaningless.
 
Korsakoff said:
I could easily organize the data and present it in a sortable, filtered fashion.

The show-stopper would be vetting the submitted data. It would be not independently submitted by a verifiable source.

The analogy would be salary surveys. An engineer can go to a website and say this is his skill level and this is how much he makes. Is it? What if he overstates hoping to drive the average up? Whereas a professional salary survey company gets their data from an HR Department who match skill levels to a pre-defined description of skills and abilities and report the actual salary from payroll records.

So, I’d gather the data, build a website for folks to use, but how would you vett the submitted data? Short of submitting verifiable transaction receipts, you would have word-of-mouth, which is meaningless.
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There are at least four tiers to prices. What you paid, what you tell your buddies you paid, what you tell strangers you paid, and what you tell wives you paid!

Hu
 
Mr. Bass Man said:
It's been almost 20 years since the last edition and there are countless new makers that were either up and coming or relatively unknown at the time of the 3rd edition printing. I'm aware that often times the investment of energy hasn't always turned out to be lucrative however for the sake of history and documentation I believe these books are worth the effort. In the time that I've been on AZ we've lost some great and knowledgeable people and I feel as though if these things aren't documented periodically they have a tendency to get lost forever. What do you guys think?
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Fun books, great for a lot of information. Not worth much as a price guide beyond original MSRP. But really cool all the same. I'd probably buy one just to see the 900 new cue makers they would add.
 
Even with so many of the greats gone, you have to include them in any subsequent editions.
The Blue Book was never intended to just be contemporaneous, active cue makers. So any
new version has to be comprehensive & include all the cue makers from the previous editions
in addition to new cue makers that came on the scene since the 3rd edition of the Blue Book.
 
ShootingArts said:
Probably not practical but I think a hard copy as up to date as possible with a yearly updated website might be the ticket. People publishing things like the blue book used to send out an appendix every year, or sell one every year. A subscription to an internet site would probably be a reasonable alternative with four years of updates and a new book every five years.

I have the third edition. With the size, color pages, and quality I am unable to guess what a fourth edition the same overall book as the third edition would cost. At a guess something in the $150-$200 range might be right. Would there be a market at that price point for the book? It would be a massive investment of time and money to put a new bluebook together. I think a deal would have to be cut to make it a fourth edition in which case profits would probably be split in some manner.

Seems like a lot of time and risk for a very uncertain market. Sorry to say but I think we have seen the last of the bluebooks or something similar. An all internet effort might be possible but I suspect that being able to hold the book in hand and look at the beautiful photography is a big part of the value of the bluebooks. I wouldn't have the same interest in an internet site.

Hu
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Three excellent, well-expressed and reasoned paragraphs, Hu, and I'm stimulated to offer a practical route to the wonderful desired result (a fourth edition with the same overall quality and look as the third edition):

There are a substantial amount of very wealthy collectors of all manner of beautiful, pinnacle-ot-the art objects -- gorgeous exemplars of given crafts. Many of these -- delightfully compulsive -- collectors have extensive and priceless cue collections despite the fact that they do no more than occasionally dabble at the game, or once played regularly but no longer have the time (or health) to do so.

Point is, the great majority already prudently own one or several of the previous editions -- which in fact is what drew them, and guided them as they began collecting in the first place.

It should be easy for high end cue-knowledgeable experts to draw up a list of who the wealthy (or once-wealthy) collectors are. They could then be individually and proactively corresponded with, and be provided with, all relevant and itemized details of a speculative plan to enable realization of the sufficiently funded top-quality fourth edition . . . with even a moderate ROI for them -- as well as the pleasure of admirably playing a part in the sustenance of an important part of pool history, far into many coming decades.

The regularly posting cue experts among AZB-ers all know -- or know of -- each other and many of them will know the names of the wealthy collectors here and all over the world. Why not simply get the ball rolling in my above-described manner by starting a productive chain of PM-like group Conversations between each other. Then firm up the plan and present the plan to all possible collector targets.

Arnaldo ~ And please if you will, include me (totally average cue owner) in the PM conversation, given my long lifetime interest in our beloved sport's history.
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I think some valuable points have been brought up here.
The digital format of this is probably ideal considering the current landscape of information, however a subscription with tiers would be necessary to maintain the site. There would need to be a group of moderators that were highly knowledgeable about the subject, and could verify the cues that would be attributed under the makers thread. The highest tier subscription would get access to full content with the best quality image available, and a lower tier would be more catalog format with similar quality to the printed book. This way there would be a specific place to search for cues by a maker that is more comprehensive rather than trying to filter through sponsered/related content galore on a search engine.
The conversation of value is in my opinion is always subject to fluctuation, and though some median value can be assessed there are far too many variables for it to hold in any weight in a transaction. The market has also been in a dip for quite a while and though certain cues will always hold value, it is not what it once was. Personally my favorite aspects of the Blue Book are the biographies and the pictures so I'm not as concerned with that aspect, but I do think that it would be useful to have a list of sales from respected dealers compiled for reference.
 
ShootingArts said:
There are at least four tiers to prices. What you paid, what you tell your buddies you paid, what you tell strangers you paid, and what you tell wives you paid!

Hu
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My wife does not even know of 80% of the cues that I ever owned- much less what I paid for them:). Every cue box that arrived here the past ten years was a "repair" job- they " break" a lot:):)
 
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