Is playing safe ever cheap?

The way I see it is this:

most sports have two sides: OFFENSE and DEFENSE....the end.:thumbup:
 
i just started playing bca where this kind of safety is used. it's not my favorite method of safe but if these were the rules agreed upon then all is fair. i prefer a more traditional safe by where you don't make a ball and hide whitey so the opponent can't see a good shot. in any case safety play is part of the game and the only people who don't like it when it's used are those who aren't good enough to do it back to you when they get a chance.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
So I was playing some guy last weekend for a drink at 8ball. I was holding the table so I asked if we were playing call pocket BIH rules. He made a smug remark about how that is the way he always plays. I break dry. He runs 6 balls off and misses. I run 4 balls and set up my 5th dead straight into the corner.

At this point I could have attempted to complete the run out and it was well within my skill level. But since I was dead straight if I played a stop shot he would have little chance of making a legal hit because he was snookered and would have a low percent 2 rail kick shot. The run out was super easy with BIH for me.

So I call safe (and made sure he heard me), knock in my 5th ball and turn the table over to my opponent. At this point he starts getting angry at me saying I should have tried to run out and it was cheap to hit a ball in and call safe. Walks up to the table and slams the cue ball. Missing his ball by a mile. I get ball in hand and complete the table.

I was slightly irritated by his attitude about playing a safe so I told him I wanted a jack and coke and walked away. Later that night he proceeds to give me a earfull about my play.

Anyways, I just wanted to hear some other opinions on a deliberate safe play. I think he was just mad he go screwed with a TERRIBLE leave.
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Well...He REALLY would hate me! I tend to play straight in no slop in a bar as typically the majority of patrons do not play BIH. However, I will play BIH if I have control of the table and the other player also normally plays by those rules. I hav been known to shoot in my opponents duck just so he will not have a break out shot...even when playing BIH. Even when playing BIH, times occur when your opponent cannot shoot his ball straight in with BIH or get a solid breakout shot. Of course I do not do this with only one of my balls on the table! I must have the ability to shoot or at least make a complete hit/safe on my own ball afterwards. I have had many a disparaging remark made about my "dirty" play. I simply state that I do not make it a habit of giving my money away. Even when playing for nothing but the table...I will typically reply "the table is not free is it?" Thus inferring that like it or not we are technically playing for money albeit 75 cents or a dollar.
 
Play

The problem is not the safety, that was needed to insure winning the game.
The problem was the shape to begin with. Why did you have such a long straight in shot to begin with. Shouldn't you have had better shooting shape to begin with???
 
I gave up on bars 10 years ago.

Way too many drunks that think they know how to play pool. I'll save the bar hassles for other players.
 
TheNewSharkster said:
At this point I could have attempted to complete the run out and it was well within my skill level.
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Playing safe wasn't cheap, but it was bad strategy. If the runout is well within your ability level, then run out. If you run out, the resul depends on nothing but you. If you play safe, you're leaving a lot up to chance. His low percentage kick could make a good hit and you could end up with a very awkward leave if he's lucky. His low percentage kick could also move the balls around in such a way as to make it difficult or impossible for you to run out. Neither of these outcomes are possibilities if you run out, making it the far better choice.

If you want to maximize your chances of winning, safeties are only for when you can't run out. Look at any top player and you'll see.

-Andrew
 
To Him You really were the New Sharkster

TheNewSharkster said:
It was at the eagles club down the road from where I live. Most of the people I play against know call pocket BIH. Yes these were 8' bar box tables though.

I had actually played against the same guy earlier and when I had scratched he had no problem placing the ball anywhere on the table.
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Eagles Club, the safe wasn't cheap but the drinks are.:D
Your opponent was a nit for complaining about your choice of shot.
Did you get your Jack&Coke?
PS I do not know the table layout, but I probably would have left the ball hanging just so I knew I had a set up ball when he missed.
 
The way I see it is that safety is a part of your game or arsenal. Just like kicking, pocketing, jumping etc. If safety is needed for your advantage against your opponent then by any means use it. I don't complain when my opponent leaves me a safety shot.
 
You see, this is funny, in a sense.

I've played both leagues, APA and TAP.

APA does not have a "safe ball down" rule, but TAP does. So shooting a ball down and playing safe, by APA rule, would not turn the table over.

Now that said...how many times are people going to argue over the rules, when they are never clearly defined?

BIH rules do not mean your opponent will be happy that you play safe. He may expect an honest attempt to pocket a ball every time, even if your only shot is a cross corner bank, when you have a safe option.

This is just how many people are accustomed to playing, and this can change from region to region, bar to bar, or different player within the same bar.

Want to avoid this type of situation? Watch the play for a few games, and observe the lay of the land. Ask before play about safes. It take about 20 seconds find out what "house rules" are in effect.
 
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So the question is, if you're not playing ball in hand, is it still considered cheap to play safe or defensively instead of all-out offensive?
 
Typically, bar players don't mind donating, but they aren't a fan of safeties.....with that in mind, I like to keep them happy.....if I gotta play a safe, I always try to do so with a two way shot if at all possible....next time, just miss the ball and look pissed off :D
 
There is a whole mentality out there that playing safe is a "sissy move". I get it from people all the time, they hate it. However, a good safety is at times a much harder shot to execute than a lot of shots where you're pocketing balls. When people make comments about it I ignore them.
 
mosconiac said:
That kind of response baffles me...I would count my lucky stars if you turned over the table to me when I didn't expect to get another shot. You never know what's gonna happen when you let 'em kick into the balls. Your tricky little safety just might end up putting you in jail. :)
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Calculated risk. This type of play has bit me in the ass before but in this case it worked like a charm.
 
Snapshot9 said:
The problem is not the safety, that was needed to insure winning the game.
The problem was the shape to begin with. Why did you have such a long straight in shot to begin with. Shouldn't you have had better shooting shape to begin with???
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The shot was short and straight. I probably could have manipulated the cue ball for the next shot but why? I had a almost sure ball in hand if I play safe.
 
Usually when I run across someone who dosnt like it when i play safe, its because they are not able to do the same.

When I stopped just banging balls around and decided to get serious about the game again, I started playing in a VNEA league, where I was taught rather quickly that the players we played against we rather good. And I had no chance against them with my game at the time.

Now I am able to keep up and my game is one of a safe game, if I cant run out I look for a safe play. Period. I dont care who I am playing. Always make sure the rules are laid out before hand and then if they cant handle it, they can move on...

:)
 
mszelis said:
So the question is, if you're not playing ball in hand, is it still considered cheap to play safe or defensively instead of all-out offensive?
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That's the gist of it.

No get me that beer!
 
TheNewSharkster said:
Calculated risk. This type of play has bit me in the ass before but in this case it worked like a charm.
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Has running out an easy layout for the win ever bit you in the ass? Why would you introduce the risk, when running out keeps YOU in control?

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
Has running out an easy layout for the win ever bit you in the ass? Why would you introduce the risk, when running out keeps YOU in control?

-Andrew
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It has. I admit it. Either way there was no 100% chance I was going to win. Its possible I could have gotten out of line if I went for the run out. With the BIH I had two stops shots and an easy 8.
 
I agree with the overwhelming masses. They have a rule for safeties because sometimes you need to do it. Some pool players remind me of video-gamers...bear with me, this is easy to follow.

Sometimes, while playing a video game online, people will get mad at you for using a rocket launcher or grenades. These are put into the game for a reason, and therefor they should be used without anybody complaining. The same goes for pool rules. These rules are in effect because enough people felt they should be.

On another note...What bar did you go to that had people agree to BIH? I find it next to impossible in my neck of the woods. lol
 
TheNewSharkster said:
It has. I admit it. Either way there was no 100% chance I was going to win. Its possible I could have gotten out of line if I went for the run out. With the BIH I had two stops shots and an easy 8.
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I get what you're saying about weighing the chances either way. But I'd always rather have the game riding on my skill (running out) than on his luck (he kicks at the ball and who knows what happens). Thus, if I think I can run out, I always try, even if I have easy safety options.

Anyway, I don't think anyone should complain about a legal and in fact common strategic move the other player makes. The rules of pool are designed for players to use offense or defense to give themselves the best chance to win, and although opinions differ on the details, all good players agree there's a time to play safe. Anyone who thinks defense shouldn't count doesn't have a complete concept of the game, and that's their problem, not yours.

-Andrew
 
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