Is Schmidt's and charlie 626 Legit

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Few, if any of today's 14.1 players were taught by any of the past 14.1 world champions. They had to pick the game up as best as they could all on their own. ...

Bobby Hunter won the 1990 MPBA World Straight Pool Championship. He was a mentor to John Schmidt.

... I didn't learn from a past 14.1 champion, but, I did learn from one former 14.1 Balkline Champion's traveling companion, after the 14.1 Balkline game became 14.1 Straight Pool Continuous in 1912.

14.1 Continuous (straight pool) didn't grow out of 14.1 Balkline in 1912; it evolved from the game of "Continuous Pool" in 1910 or 1911. Continuous Pool had been around for a couple of decades. In that game, they pocketed all 15 balls in each rack then re-racked all 15 and broke them open hoping to make a ball on the break to keep going (or played safe). In 1910 or 1911, Jerome Keogh invented 14.1 Continuous, pocketing 14 balls and leaving the 15th on the table as the break ball for the next rack. This then became the game for world pool championships, with the first such event in 1912.
 
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WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Not unless the "real straight pool crowd" blesses it. Without video, I can't imagine it getting any "xradarx love" or Harriman gold forehead stars. Have you run this news past them?

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Haha, no, I don't need any confirmation from those two internet folks. I knew Babe Cranfield well, and given his integrity, I know he ran 768. Also, I was lucky to have dinner in Atlantic City in 1982 with both Cranfield and Irving Crane, and Crane confirmed that Babe ran over 700 twice. I really don't need more evidence, as the character and integrity of the individuals are the most important.

I also don't give credibility to any signed statements, which are waved around here often. With a long run, I have no doubt that so-called witnesses probably fell asleep, went out for a beer call, or went to the bathroom, and didn't continually witness the whole run. Given that, I do think that Mosconi ran 526, though there are some stories of balls popping out of pockets, but they gave them to him. I believe that he ran 526 given his credibility, and nothing else. Which is why I give Cranfield credit for the record of 768, which is what I think the others should be chasing.
 

WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Were Cranfield and Mosconi still hanging around today, your credit and $5 might get them a cup of coffee! You may still have a chance for dinner with Mr600+, give him $5 and thirty-eight years from now maybe he can get himself dinner and a cup of coffee!
Unintelligible. Was school not your favorite thing?
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Haha, no, I don't need any confirmation from those two internet folks. I knew Babe Cranfield well, and given his integrity, I know he ran 768. Also, I was lucky to have dinner in Atlantic City in 1982 with both Cranfield and Irving Crane, and Crane confirmed that Babe ran over 700 twice. I really don't need more evidence, as the character and integrity of the individuals are the most important.

I also don't give credibility to any signed statements, which are waved around here often. With a long run, I have no doubt that so-called witnesses probably fell asleep, went out for a beer call, or went to the bathroom, and didn't continually witness the whole run. Given that, I do think that Mosconi ran 526, though there are some stories of balls popping out of pockets, but they gave them to him. I believe that he ran 526 given his credibility, and nothing else. Which is why I give Cranfield credit for the record of 768, which is what I think the others should be chasing.
These comments are 100%true and should be noted as so. Babe Cranfield was called “Honest Babe” for always telling the truth. There is an article also stating that Cranfield 768 was done in an exhibition not a practice session and no special conditions to break any record. I have seen a copy of the article and will post it as soon as I find it again.For whatever reason for whoever not to see this as the all time record would be calling Cranfield , Crane and many others complete liars and disrespecting the great game of 14.1.
Also your write up is the best one in this thread and thanks for sharing it from your 1st hand experience from the people and players that knew it as the honest truth.
 

WildWing

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
These comments are 100%true and should be noted as so. Babe Cranfield was called “Honest Babe” for always telling the truth. There is an article also stating that Cranfield 768 was done in an exhibition not a practice session and no special conditions to break any record. I have seen a copy of the article and will post it as soon as I find it again.For whatever reason for whoever not to see this as the all time record would be calling Cranfield , Crane and many others complete liars and disrespecting the great game of 14.1.
Also your write up is the best one in this thread and thanks for sharing it from your 1st hand experience from the people and players that knew it as the honest truth.
Thanks, Bobby, I'll relay a little story on the honesty of Babe Cranfield. He described the 1200 point challenge match with Luther Lassiter, who I also respect very much. Babe called a couple fouls on himself. The one he described to me was when he was about to address the cue ball, his ferrule accidentally came into contact with the top of the cue ball. It wasn't visible to anyone, but Babe heard the click. So he called a foul on himself, and let Luther shoot. Babe went on to win the challenge. Babe did describe the 768 to me, and tried to get some documentation, but couldn't come up with enough people who saw it for long enough. But, it is enough for me to consider his record the all time high, regardless of the chatter.

All the best,
WW
 

wrldpro

H.RUN 311/Diamond W.R.
Gold Member
Silver Member
Thanks, Bobby, I'll relay a little story on the honesty of Babe Cranfield. He described the 1200 point challenge match with Luther Lassiter, who I also respect very much. Babe called a couple fouls on himself. The one he described to me was when he was about to address the cue ball, his ferrule accidentally came into contact with the top of the cue ball. It wasn't visible to anyone, but Babe heard the click. So he called a foul on himself, and let Luther shoot. Babe went on to win the challenge. Babe did describe the 768 to me, and tried to get some documentation, but couldn't come up with enough people who saw it for long enough. But, it is enough for me to consider his record the all time high, regardless of the chatter.

All the best,
WW
I spoke with a very respected friend of mine that has won just about everything including 8 world titles. He told me he believes Cranfield runs all of them.BTW my friend I spoke to is Nick Varner. As far as JS goes as I respect to the game of 14.1 I want to believe that he is telling the truth of his run and I believed it when I 1st heard about it, since then after hearing more details concerning it and with no 100% unedited video for any professional video expert to look at than I no longer believe the run to be real. Had JS not claimed any video of any run it would be more likely I would believe a run really happened.
 

haystj

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
10 Signs Your AZBilliards second account name Might be a Nutbag.
  • Gets in the way of other posts.
  • Snoops in various communications around the forum (any thread about JS626).
  • Automatically dislikes people that believe the JS626 run
  • Constantly checks up on JS626 activities.
  • Gets really angry when opinions differ.
  • Gets jealous and lacks trust.
  • Is needy
  • Tries to control the narrative
  • Displays calculating behavior
  • Gets irate reading posts from hasteytj


Hmmmm,,, who does this sound like???? I wonder,, unowho ;)
 

xXGEARXx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I do know one thing. This thread is too Legit, too Legit to quit...

1605644288070.png
 

maha

from way back when
Silver Member
it doesnt matter to me if he did run them or not. i dont count as official anything where the person breaking the record sets up his own equipment and makes the conditions favorable to him and plays over and over on it till he gets the outcome he wants.

mosconi played on other peoples tables that he wasnt familiar with during exhibitions. and had only a little say in the conditions.
others with big high runs played in public pool rooms where others have played on that same table hundreds of hours before them.
and any video proof that cannot be substantiated by independent sources is not worth a grain of salt.
 

arnaldo

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I spoke with a very respected friend of mine that has won just about everything including 8 world titles. He told me he believes Cranfield runs all of them.BTW my friend I spoke to is Nick Varner. As far as JS goes as I respect the game of 14.1 I want to believe that he is telling the truth of his run and I believed it when I 1st heard about it, since then after hearing more details concerning it and with no 100% unedited video for any professional video expert to look at then I no longer believe the run to be real. Had JS not claimed any video of any run it would be more likely I would believe a run really happened.
For what it's worth, Bobby, this was Nick Varner's initial reaction when hearing about the JS-626 run (and almost certainly before vigorous controversies began to arise (pro and con) the run's validity):
---------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Varner
World 14.1 Champion 1980, '86

"I don't think anybody has tried that hard before. This was John's goal and he accomplished it. My high run is 337. It's a remarkable feat to break Mosconi's record after all these years, and to break it on a 9-foot table is even better. I think this run should be accepted for what it is. It's not a game situation in either case. What's even more amazing to me is that he ran 100 more balls after he broke the record. Concentration is such a big part of running balls in straight pool and it would have been hard for me not to stop and celebrate after hitting 527."
----------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpted from this thread (below) that I started after reading the Billiards Digest article about Schmidt's run:


Helpfully intended. Doesn't in any way verify that the run did or didn't coherently happen. I do look forward to someday watching the already existing voiceovered video -- with biobreaks and other downtimes thankfully edited out -- and hearing John's always very instructive rack-by-rack commentary. My somewhat informed opinion is that a hand-signed DVD priced around $29.00 would sell between 1 to 5 thousand copies worldwide eventually. I hope John does package and release it sometime next year. At $29 per unit (plus shipping), he could reasonably expect a return of somewhere between 30 to 150 thousand dollars (less the cost of manufacturing the DVDs).

Arnaldo
 
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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
The only thing I do know is that railing about it as much as you have is not healthy (mentally). You and others are acting like Hillary supporters screaming at the sky for 4 years. You don't like it, film your own high run to top it.
Does it bother u when ' The People' seek the truth? Keep hiding in the shadows talking about mental health - they will have plenty tests 4 u little tony.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
For what it's worth, Bobby, this was Nick Varner's initial reaction when hearing about the JS-626 run (and almost certainly before vigorous controversies began to arise (pro and con) the run's validity):
---------------------------------------------------------------
Nick Varner
World 14.1 Champion 1980, '86

"I don't think anybody has tried that hard before. This was John's goal and he accomplished it. My high run is 337. It's a remarkable feat to break Mosconi's record after all these years, and to break it on a 9-foot table is even better. I think this run should be accepted for what it is. It's not a game situation in either case. What's even more amazing to me is that he ran 100 more balls after he broke the record. Concentration is such a big part of running balls in straight pool and it would have been hard for me not to stop and celebrate after hitting 527."
----------------------------------------------------------------

Excerpted from this thread (below) that I started after reading the Billiards Digest article about Schmidt's run:


Helpfully intended. Doesn't in any way verify that the run did or didn't coherently happen. I do look forward to someday watching the already existing voiceovered video -- with biobreaks and other downtimes thankfully edited out -- and hearing John's always very instructive rack-by-rack commentary. My somewhat informed opinion is that a hand-signed DVD priced around $29.00 would sell between 1 to 5 thousand copies worldwide eventually. I hope John does package and release it sometime next year. At $29 per unit (plus shipping), he could reasonably expect a return of somewhere between 30 to 150 thousand dollars (less the cost of manufacturing the DVDs).

Arnaldo
1 thing is for sure the hill of fame/new pred sponsor/ chopped 626 video cue was indeed as u like to say a package deal. Nick Varner does not like j.s. either, j.s tried his wax towel move on Nick as well.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Ha! Ha! I checked there and found their top 15 players, but no data on high runs. (Top BCA standings dominated by Europe: US/Can 4, Europe 7, Asia 4.)

Snooker has CueTracker.net which is the efforts of one person to keep track of snooker stats, and is a great resource.
CueTracker statistics
U might want to know on bca's webcite they refer to Pocket Billiards as Pool? I think it's there subtle way of informing the public that any news they have to offer the public pertaining to the sport of Pocket Billiards is just their gambler/hustler twisted version of journalism. This is interesting as the correct nomenclature's for any cue sport would = Billiards or Pocket Billiards. I come from a long line' of unabashed trackers - gerryf.
 
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Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
it doesnt matter to me if he did run them or not. i dont count as official anything where the person breaking the record sets up his own equipment and makes the conditions favorable to him and plays over and over on it till he gets the outcome he wants.

mosconi played on other peoples tables that he wasnt familiar with during exhibitions. and had only a little say in the conditions.
others with big high runs played in public pool rooms where others have played on that same table hundreds of hours before them.
and any video proof that cannot be substantiated by independent sources is not worth a grain of salt.
Because equipment has changed over the years, where most tables the pros play on now are 4 1/2" pockets and much faster cloth, I said from the beginning that JS was never really exactly beating Mosconi's record, due to the differing conditions. But just because the conditions were not identical, doesn't mean that it's not a valid record. Running 626 balls is a big achievement even all of the conditions made it easier than what Mosconi did.

But some things about the equipment were more difficult than the conditions Mosconi set his record with, 9ft table vs 8 ft table. Other things made the conditions easier to run balls, faster cloth cleaned during the run, balls cleaned during the run. The pocket sizes and shelf were probably close enough to call it a wash.

To me, it would be the best to set the modern day record on a standard Diamond table with 4 1/2 inch pockets with new cloth, since those are the most common conditions used for pro tournaments. Not cleaning the cloth or object balls during the run would also be better. Cue ball cleaning should be fine IMO.

I have a feeling that if one of the top players did what JS did and tried to break the record on a Diamond table, they might still beat the 526. THAT would be quite an awesome achievement.
 

Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Because equipment has changed over the years, where most tables the pros play on now are 4 1/2" pockets and much faster cloth, I said from the beginning that JS was never really exactly beating Mosconi's record, due to the differing conditions. But just because the conditions were not identical, doesn't mean that it's not a valid record. Running 626 balls is a big achievement even all of the conditions made it easier than what Mosconi did.

But some things about the equipment were more difficult than the conditions Mosconi set his record with, 9ft table vs 8 ft table. Other things made the conditions easier to run balls, faster cloth cleaned during the run, balls cleaned during the run. The pocket sizes and shelf were probably close enough to call it a wash.

To me, it would be the best to set the modern day record on a standard Diamond table with 4 1/2 inch pockets with new cloth, since those are the most common conditions used for pro tournaments. Not cleaning the cloth or object balls during the run would also be better. Cue ball cleaning should be fine IMO.

I have a feeling that if one of the top players did what JS did and tried to break the record on a Diamond table, they might still beat the 526. THAT would be quite an awesome achievement.
another attempt to deflect from the fact that there is zero evidence that his 626 even exists bca/j.s chopped video (what a joke) - but yea the pocket size does not really matter when they insist on hiding the tape from the public to view let alone purchase. Once again see u in da funny papers lucky 8baller - u really should not believe in black magic journalism.
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
Would you like them to play on 3-1/2’x7’ or 45”x90” play fields? Surely not on a real 50”x100” or the original games 5’x10’s? Today’s top players have already made numerous attempts on high runs @ DCC on those tables, not even close to 526. More like 330’s. Look it up, gag. No staggering balls into any of those tables pockets. Many spectators also, who pay strict attention to details, because they paid their money to spectate. Referees and spectators are a real threat to falsification, no?
Let’s hear it for 331 or betters, no incentive to labor for little or nothing, just free wishers.
The DCC high runs on a Diamond was not trying over and over for months. If they tried what JS did by dedicating months of nothing but trying to break 526 on Diamonds, I think someone just might do it.
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
another attempt to deflect from the fact that there is zero evidence that his 626 even exists bca/j.s chopped video (what a joke) - but yea the pocket size does not really matter when they insist on hiding the tape from the public to view let alone purchase. Once again see u in da funny papers lucky 8baller - u really should not believe in black magic journalism.
I gave my reasons already. If both the BCA and Predator viewed the unedited video and Predator paid out a big chunk of change to JS per his contract, I think that is enough to sway me into believing that the run was indeed legit.
 

Get_A_Grip

Truth Will Set You Free
Silver Member
You and others keep referencing that ‘little’ IF word. None of the original documentation mentions a Predator contract, only that they provided a couple cues and shafts, not much else. Lately, word of a contract with no mention of $$$$’s for a record using their equipment has been leaked ‘out’. So, how about a little truth, for a change.
Go back and listen to the post-run interviews that JS gave. He mentions that the contract included a substantial payout if he were to break Mosconi's high run. I posted a screenshot of JS saying that he received a big payout from Predator in one of the threads about the 626.

If I recall, I think JS did at least 3 different interviews. I have no interest in trying to find the interviews and to re-listen to each of them to find out exactly where he mentions this. But I think that some of you that are obsessed with JS's run ought to go find it and report back.
 
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Dan Harriman

One of the best in 14.1
Silver Member
Not! Need others to gather data to support your claim you do!
Those interview broadcasts and televideo’s have been revised many times, over. Bits and sound bites have made it into the written word here also. Who’s to say what’s true/false? NOTHING to substantiate the claim has been presented publicly.
I looked up 14.1 high run on google it showed a pic of j.s. 626. So I thought I would try to see what the click' had to offer as proof and clicked on it - it said page has expired? I guess that means the 626 'chopped hidden video' still pending approval - DENIED. 1 definition of a record; a state or FACT of being recorded, there is absolute zero scientific evidence that Mosconi's true record has been surpassed. So again anyone like magic 8 ball should really get a grip if they think the public will accept a chopped video as factual evidence or the term modern day record? So if get a grip wants to call it a modern day claim - then that will suffice - but to call it a record is a lie or a fake news reaffirmation - unless they do produce an unedited video. Two yrs. after they (bca,predcuecons/j.s.) first announced their corrupt claim - still no unedited video to back up or substantiate their claim, it's safe to say there is a huge problem with their "modern day 626 claim". Sign of the modern day corrupt people trying to do business as usual, any reasonable 14.1 purist understands Mosconi's 526 stands unparalleled.
 
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