Is the ACS Corrupt? Where is all the money? A Letter To Mr. Lewis

[Timberly]

I don't think that will happen, not in our lifetime

Got that right.

 

[ne14tennis]

First let me say yes, I am a moron. I was way out of line saying things about you Mr. Bogart and I am sorry. I did not realize your draw thats just what I have heard, that was no easy draw. Once again very sorry, anyone had to play there ass of to win as I am sure you did. I was just trying to build my case and got a lot out of hand in reguards to questioning your integrity as a person and a player. Once again I made an ass of myself.

I remember doing the calculations at the tournament and coming up with a figure that seemed to be short in terms of what the payouts should have been. I guess I just did not know the whole story as to where the money went. I was told that there was money going to be made from the tables by the ACS. I heard an obscene amount, but not true from what you are saying. Did the league make money off of the tournament? Where does the money go if so? Questions that I and other people would like to know. Now im not trying to say that they shouldn't make any money at all, it takes some work to put this thing on. But it should be made public how much the poeple in charge are making, just my opinion.

I still think that the Texas ACS league as a whole is poorly run. A number of people around the state feel this way. There is a large sum of money missing from our area. We have tried to get some answers with no results. The vegas trip is not free, I did not clarify myself. The league dues we pay each week are used for that and that is the majority of the payout form all the money we out into the league. The winner of a end of season tournament gets the "free trip."

I think that to solve these and many other problems it should be made clear where all the money is going, is there a disadvantage to this? Mainly in our area, not so much at the state tourney. But it would be nice to have the numbers for the event also. It would end alot of speculation and rumors.

A suggestion I have is to raise the entry for the Next ACS state tournament. Coming hundreds of miles for a $40 tournament is not going to keep entrants. I overheard many people saying that they were not going to attend next years event. I would pay double the entry with no problem as would people spending hundreds to stay in the hotels. Get the Diamonds at the ACS and add money.

Thank you guys for setting me straight. I need to work on my internet etiquette. Its just that I have been told many bad things about the ACS and alot of things are being consistent with the accusations. People are fed up in our area and I would not be supprised to see the league fold here. And hearing about other people being unhappy with the ACS in other parts of the country doesn't suprise me. Of course I mainly play for enjoyment and love of the game anyway haha. I still enjoy myself playing and I guess that that is the most important thing to me but who likes to lose money? I don't want to see people get rich dishonestly off of other hard working people and it seems that that is exactly what is going on. Sorry again for the personal attack in my first post I truly am. And thanks for clarifying the tournament payouts I was misinformed.

Don't be totally surprised if the "Diamonds" show up at the ACS State Tournament! Tournament directors are businessmen, and the customer can still be king if they ask for them long enough and loud enough.

I spent quite a bit of time talking and interacting with the "Table Techs" at both tournaments I worked that featured Diamond tables. The same comment came up over and over...."Yes these are great tables, but we don't play on them in our leagues". The response from the table techs was taken with a grain of salt, but on the other hand it was a little bit enlightening. "It might not be that far in the future to have BCA leagues playing Diamond tables"

Let me preface this part by saying I cannot speak to what Mark Griffen, the BCAPL or Diamond Pool Tables plans are and I have no knowledge of a "Master Plan". This is only for conversations sake. So if we look into this, one can assume for the sake of this conversation that Diamond will undercut Valley/Dynamo and make it a better deal to rent Diamonds than other brands since most bars and clubs rent their tables. The next logical step if I were Mark Griffen is to say to the remaining holdouts is "Want to play BCAPL....use Diamonds". Then one would have to really re-evaluate why he took over BCAPL. Was this part of a "Master plan"? I personally like Diamond tables and think they play great, but I agree with so many others in saying I only get to play on them twice a year.

One of the original league operators in our area began to charge $1 per player per week as a "Travel Fund". Unfortunately it wasn't given out to the winning team/s.....it was given out to everyone. In the form of a subsidy on the cost of the hotel room (Only during team play at BCAPL Nationals even though he is a BCAPL/ACS sanctioned league). So in effect all the players pay for the few that can afford and get off work to go to Vegas. Where is the problem with that? IMO it promotes sending teams that DO NOT represent the league well. In fact most of these teams make it a drinking/gambling excursion that includes a little bit of billiards as well and they couldn't pocket a ball if they get BIH. Once the league operator saw so little opposition to his little nestegg, he made it a requirement in almost every division he has. I went to the other league operator at that point and never looked back. In this league I feel like I accomplished something if I finish at or near the top. Don't accept hearsay or word of mouth. Pose the questions and get the answers you deserve. Then you can make informed decisions. Every league operates differently and you can never please everyone.

Since this original thread was Anti ACS in nature, it's no wonder that the majority of posts are slanted that way. Had this started as a Anti BCAPL post, the replies would have leaned that way. This BCA vs. ACS war is strictly a political war with the players following the league operator.

I am very happy to have both. I get to work more events, I get to play in more events and afterall, that's why I'm a league player......I like to play.

Oh , I almost forgot.......I get 2 packets of goodies every year when I pay my dues

 

[KennB]

ACS Texas Events

First let me say yes, I am a moron. I was way out of line saying things about you Mr. Bogart and I am sorry. I did not realize your draw thats just what I have heard, that was no easy draw. Once again very sorry, anyone had to play there ass of to win as I am sure you did. I was just trying to build my case and got a lot out of hand in reguards to questioning your integrity as a person and a player. Once again I made an ass of myself.

I remember doing the calculations at the tournament and coming up with a figure that seemed to be short in terms of what the payouts should have been. I guess I just did not know the whole story as to where the money went. I was told that there was money going to be made from the tables by the ACS. I heard an obscene amount, but not true from what you are saying. Did the league make money off of the tournament? Where does the money go if so? Questions that I and other people would like to know. Now im not trying to say that they shouldn't make any money at all, it takes some work to put this thing on. But it should be made public how much the poeple in charge are making, just my opinion.

I still think that the Texas ACS league as a whole is poorly run. A number of people around the state feel this way. There is a large sum of money missing from our area. We have tried to get some answers with no results. The vegas trip is not free, I did not clarify myself. The league dues we pay each week are used for that and that is the majority of the payout form all the money we out into the league. The winner of a end of season tournament gets the "free trip."

I think that to solve these and many other problems it should be made clear where all the money is going, is there a disadvantage to this? Mainly in our area, not so much at the state tourney. But it would be nice to have the numbers for the event also. It would end alot of speculation and rumors.

A suggestion I have is to raise the entry for the Next ACS state tournament. Coming hundreds of miles for a $40 tournament is not going to keep entrants. I overheard many people saying that they were not going to attend next years event. I would pay double the entry with no problem as would people spending hundreds to stay in the hotels. Get the Diamonds at the ACS and add money.

Thank you guys for setting me straight. I need to work on my internet etiquette. Its just that I have been told many bad things about the ACS and alot of things are being consistent with the accusations. People are fed up in our area and I would not be supprised to see the league fold here. And hearing about other people being unhappy with the ACS in other parts of the country doesn't suprise me. Of course I mainly play for enjoyment and love of the game anyway haha. I still enjoy myself playing and I guess that that is the most important thing to me but who likes to lose money? I don't want to see people get rich dishonestly off of other hard working people and it seems that that is exactly what is going on. Sorry again for the personal attack in my first post I truly am. And thanks for clarifying the tournament payouts I was misinformed.

Eric, No problem.
Let me try to answer yoru questions to the best of my ability.

The money fro payout....
1st 950
2nd 745
3rd 550
4th 350
5th 225
6th 225
7th 175
8th 175
9th 100
10th 100
11th 100
12th 100
13th -75
14th -75
15th -75
16th - 75
17th - 35
18th - 35
19th -35
20th - 35
21st - 35
22nd - 35
23rd - 35
24th - 35
Added up that comes to $4305 (thats what was posted on the tournament chart in the lower right hand corner and paid back to the players)
As stated we had 123 players and they paid 35 each. ($5 out of the $40 went to registration fees as stated on the flyer) 123 x $35=$4,305 (100% payback as advertised).

You have to be real careful listening to rumors and speculation. If you have questions, concerns or objections come to me with an email or phone call. I appreciate your retort and apology.

Tables-BCA recieved money back from Diamond once their money requirement for the lease of the tables were met. The people we used didnt have that type of arrangement with us, I wish they did but, this is the first time in history money was paid back after the lease was met. In the future we will try to either make the same arrangement or move to another vendor.

As for your missing money. ANY player thats plays in a BCA or ACS sanctioned league has the right to see the financial statements upon request. if you feel that something is in error, ask your League Operator for the financial statements, Im sure he will go line by line with you. I know your LO because he is my boss on the State side and he is very fair, Honest and works his ass of to make this a better league for everyone in the state.

Again, I want to restate my position. We all should be thankful to have the opportunity to play in another sanctioned league system. The people who branched off to start ACS could have easily walked away and said screw this you can have it but, they didnt. They stayed and put up a fight for the players. If anyone thinks they have an easy job or are getting rich off of your $10.00 sent in annually then your in need of a reality check. Yeah there payout are less because they are NOT a corporate sponsored system and they are relatively new. REMEMBER, they started BCA and made it was before they were bought out by a profit organization.

Kenn Bogart

 

[I rack balls]

Hmmm I think that we will definitely have to go and ask to see a financial statement. I am new to the league and pool in general. I have been in this league for three seasons. I went to my first board meeting which I heard about by accident and the main question on the table was where was the money? They pretty much just said that they didn't have any and that they have been working for free for the last three seasons. So should we just flat out go and ask WC for a financial statement? All I am saying is that it looks like there was plenty of money spent/missing from our league and the numbers don't seem right at all. In fact they moved to the new format in our league and made the season a ridiculous 19 weeks long and handicapped to pay for previous money won in the past few seasons (thats what they said.) I don't see how that came to be. Oh and dont get me wrong I am glad to play in another league just that us beating a lower bracket team 24/25 games every other week isn't fun for anyone. I don't know, I mean there are other things that are just making our ACS league no fun.

I personally have always liked WC as a person but I would definitely like to see the numbers for our league in the past year. I have heard many rumors as to where the money went but thats just talk. A financial statement passed out to the league might save it. Now I am just rambling. Thanks for the info on the statment and what not, we will eventually get satisfaction/an explanation.

Oh and what do ya think about raising the entry next year? I think its a good idear.

 

[KennB]

Verify before accusations

Hmmm I think that we will definitely have to go and ask to see a financial statement. I am new to the league and pool in general. I have been in this league for three seasons. I went to my first board meeting which I heard about by accident and the main question on the table was where was the money? They pretty much just said that they didn't have any and that they have been working for free for the last three seasons. So should we just flat out go and ask WC for a financial statement? All I am saying is that it looks like there was plenty of money spent/missing from our league and the numbers don't seem right at all. In fact they moved to the new format in our league and made the season a ridiculous 19 weeks long and handicapped to pay for previous money won in the past few seasons (thats what they said.) I don't see how that came to be. Oh and dont get me wrong I am glad to play in another league just that us beating a lower bracket team 24/25 games every other week isn't fun for anyone. I don't know, I mean there are other things that are just making our ACS league no fun.

I personally have always liked WC as a person but I would definitely like to see the numbers for our league in the past year. I have heard many rumors as to where the money went but thats just talk. A financial statement passed out to the league might save it. Now I am just rambling. Thanks for the info on the statment and what not, we will eventually get satisfaction/an explanation.

Oh and what do ya think about raising the entry next year? I think its a good idear.

Rack Balls,
Your continuing to use terms like "They said" and "I heard" when posting your responses. Do yourself and other pool players a favor. Before you post something in a public forum, seen by everyone from Texas to Las Vegas, get the facts and first person account of a situation. I am not only telling you that but, I am also referring to myself. I was guilty of saying things that I heard about BCAPL that werent true. There is no Master plan to convert all BCA play to "Diamonds" and BCAPL has NOT taken money from BCA players. In fact, they have added thousands of dolalrs to varioous events. So we are both guilty.

Now, as for your request for knowledge about expenditures. Ask WC and I am sure he will discuss anything you want with him. When you go directly to the source you can get the real answers and make an informed decision on your own.

Yes, I should have probably raised the entry fee to around $50 or $60 dollars but, I was trying to keep it low so more people who attend the event. We will look at the next events and probably raise it.
KB

 

[Mark Griffin]

Just for clarification purposes;

Diamond pool tables are available to anyone that wants them. The BCAPL does not require use of any brand of table. Most National and regional events will be played on Diamonds. Leagues, local or state events can use any table they want.

Ed Hagan (an independent contractor) can provide the Diamond tables - he does not usually participate in the coin drop. He can be contacted at 502-472-1843. His website is www.billiardsacrossamerica.com.

Diamonds goal is to provide the best playing equipment, and make it available to any pool players. (Less politics and more pool).

Mark Griffin
markg@playbca.com

 

[Eydie Romano]

There were just Diamond tables at a Valley, yes I said Valley tournament in Florida this past week...

There were No complaints!