Is the National Billiards League legit, or a scam?

[Sandman]

You are blaming players and fans for not going to 20 different locations to find your hidden information. Do you really think its the fault of the dozens of players across multiple social media platforms who repeatedly ask you this information of "where is the money coming form"? Or could it be your information is not clear? No one is going to listen to 10 YouTube videos. They will go to your website instead. Make your website clear! Its a bunch of fancy images and maps now, but not clear what is happening. If you can't write the word Calcutta, that at least make it clear that only the first place finish is funded from the entry fees, the rest of the entry fees go to the year/quarter end tourney, and place 2 through 7 is up to "local non-tournament funding", and contact your local director for more information. The problem is your dissemination of information "in one central location". Not our laziness to seek it out at 20 different locations. You are attacking us for being confused by your information. Is it dozens of us that are wrong, or is your information not clear? That is the question you have to answer for yourself.

Again, I'm not looking to place blame anywhere. I already stated that the website was vague with that portion of information BUT when asked by interested parties at sign up, all were well informed and clear. I also stated that it was a simple break in communications from me, eventually to the players. In the original thread on here, as sited before by JSP, the question was asked and then answered in the thread. (https://forums.azbilliards.com/thre...ational-billiards-league.522695/#post-6804012)

If you're not sure, just ask. That's all. Every question is answered or clarified. I also stated that the website will be amended to reflect such. The only problem I have is the manner in which people resort to crying online right away rather than simply sending a private message inquiring or contacting the local TD for more info as it is set up on the website. Besides, the 20 locations of information were continuous updates at different times throughout the year of advertising.

You'll be helping yourself. Instead of spending time writing back in this thread, and doing another video, and talking to disgruntled players via chat/phone, or talking to tourney directors the day of the event, change your website instead. When its all fixed, come back here and post the link. That will be the most efficient use of your time. You will never have to answer these questions again. It will pay off exponentially for you.

Only if it were that simple.

 

[Sandman]

Are the results of Jan 9/10 events posted anywhere?

There was one sort of near me that I was going to go to, but had to bail when I remembered I suck at pool these days.

Results were posted right here on AZ in the news section as well as on the NBL Facebook page.

You'll be helping yourself. Instead of spending time writing back in this thread, and doing another video, and talking to disgruntled players via chat/phone, or talking to tourney directors the day of the event, change your website instead. When its all fixed, come back here and post the link. That will be the most efficient use of your time. You will never have to answer these questions again. It will pay off exponentially for you.

I don't mind giving my personal time to intrigued players. We are a closely knit community. That makes us very unique. Easy accessibility is a good thing I think. What other sport industry can you Facebook message the organizers and get a fairly quick response?

I didn't want to alter the website yet as the next thread or comment would be, "They changed the website to cover up the scam!!!!" LOL

 

[Sandman]

And I did watch some of your early videos from a year ago. They were 30 seconds or 1 minute long and had zero information. So I never watched another one since.

Sorry to be harsh. But your early videos (I have not watched recent ones), your website (still today), are all fancy images/videos/editing/cool looking, but contain very little actual information. I'd recommend getting rid of all the graphics and starting over. I know you spent a lot of time on it, but its just graphics stuff, no actual meat and potatoes information. The pool players who are going to put up 150 to enter an event are real players, not bangers. They've been around the block many many times (unlike bangers). Those real pool players want to see the meat and potatoes. They could care less about the graphics. The bangers want the pretty website.

Haha I'm not a graphic artist or videographer. I just use simple cookie-cutter templates. I also have thick skin. I don't get offended easily. The videos are teaser trailers to grab attention and direct people to the website. At the website, interested parties click on a location and contact the local TD for additional info and registration options. We want to attract ALL levels of players. No discrimination. We all start somewhere.

 

[sparkle84]

I for one apologize to Ed for not speaking up immediately to state that I'm positive there's no hanky panky going on here.
IMO he's put his heart and soul in this endeavor and has no ulterior motive.
I'm in New England so my TD is Gloria Jean in RI. I'll be contacting her to try and get more precise info. That being said.....
I have one question to throw out because I'm confused about how it would work.
Regarding Calcuttas. I think anyone who plays in small, medium or large tournaments is familiar with them but how is that
money going to be applied to 1st thru 8th place. Let's say that in my area I'm an overwhelming favorite to win the qualifier and people bid me up to 500.00. That's nice but what if I don't have 250 to buy 1/2 of myself. Then I come in 1st and get nothing.
That seems to be what everyone's wondering about. Somebody please explain what I'm missing.

 

[dardusm]

It's been my experience that new tournaments and leagues will have growing pains. The few times I went to a "new" event and invested time and money they all had issues. Hence, I'm leery trying out new tournaments from past experience. I hope the best for the NBL and it looks well thought out and done with the best interest at heart but many times the number of entrants fail to materialize to make the math work.

 

[ChrisinNC]

I for one apologize to Ed for not speaking up immediately to state that I'm positive there's no hanky panky going on here.
IMO he's put his heart and soul in this endeavor and has no ulterior motive.
I'm in New England so my TD is Gloria Jean in RI. I'll be contacting her to try and get more precise info. That being said.....
I have one question to throw out because I'm confused about how it would work.
Regarding Calcuttas. I think anyone who plays in small, medium or large tournaments is familiar with them but how is that
money going to be applied to 1st thru 8th place. Let's say that in my area I'm an overwhelming favorite to win the qualifier and people bid me up to 500.00. That's nice but what if I don't have 250 to buy 1/2 of myself. Then I come in 1st and get nothing.
That seems to be what everyone's wondering about. Somebody please explain what I'm missing.

You are precisely correct, which is why it is misleading. Even if you were to win, unless you had purchased at minimum half yourself in the auction, you’d get $ nothing.

 

[maha]

its a tournament. it is easy to just state exactly how the payout will be made. if you cant or wont do that, people are rightly going to think something is wrong. i know i would.

if you take in 4800 it is easy and right to state exactly what each place pays. and where the rest of the money goes.
so far i havent seen that. have i missed it.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

 

[Goldy]

Is this guy still butt hurt he drove 9 hours and decided not to play? lmao.

 

[TxBullDog]

Looks to me and several others... Just another way to get the pro levels in Fargo some more cash... Not going to last

 

[APA Operator]

We want to attract ALL levels of players.

Even the grandma who never picked up a cue in her life? How do you plan to do that? She doesn't even know what a race to 5 or a loser's side is. Your product is designed to attract pros, semi-pros and shortstops, those who think they have any chance to get through one of these qualifiers, yet you say you want to attract all levels of players. Either state you want the high-end amateurs and professionals, or change your product to actually attract all levels. There's plenty of room for products at all market levels, but the market will never develop until the entire chain is in place and connected, rather than overly competitive. The sooner we can each identify our market segments and tailor our products to them, the better our chance to work together and get an entire chain in place.

I'm not against you or your product. Yours and mine are designed to attract different market segments. They might have a few participants in common, but not by choice. I might attract some of your segment, namely those who like to instruct rank amateurs and those who just want to enjoy a night out with rank amateur friends. My product might attract a few higher-end amateurs, but it is not designed to do so. The only part designed to attract that crowd is the U.S. Amateur, which is not designed as a money-making part of the product, but as a connection to the higher levels.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

I am more confused then ever. Does anyone have a good handle on this situation? My experience is that calcuttas are always completely separate from the tournament -- conducted by folks without connection with the tournament. In this situation, how do you bring the calcutta into paying the top eight? Can a tournament such as this depend upon activity which is illegal in some of its venues?

 

[KissedOut]

I am more confused then ever. Does anyone have a good handle on this situation? My experience is that calcuttas are always completely separate from the tournament -- conducted by folks without connection with the tournament. In this situation, how do you bring the calcutta into paying the top eight? Can a tournament such as this depend upon activity which is illegal in some of its venues?

What is troubling is that no hint of this Calcutta stuff, or any suggestion that the payouts would not be done in the way everyone assumed, in the 2 previous threads with hundreds of messages. This is lack of transparency raised to the nth power. Go back and read the promoter's posts in those threads and see if there is any hint about the payouts coming from someplace other than entry fees.

 

[Sandman]

Not literally "ALL". :: As stated several times before, this is for an average B Class player and up. The reality is, those that just picked up a cue are NOT READY to compete at ANY level to be honest. Let them learn how to play for a while and THEN enter a level appropriate competition.

 

[Sandman]

What is troubling is that no hint of this Calcutta stuff, or any suggestion that the payouts would not be done in the way everyone assumed, in the 2 previous threads with hundreds of messages. This is lack of transparency raised to the nth power. Go back and read the promoter's posts in those threads and see if there is any hint about the payouts coming from someplace other than entry fees.

In the thread of my original post AND in this slanderous post insinuating ill intent, that question was answered AND sited by another member as well as myself. Can we please wager that nothing was mentioned? LOL:: I ask that people read things thoroughly. If still uncertain, contact your local TD or even myself to answer all questions. MANY things CANNOT be stated on the main website as it enters gray areas of legality in various jurisdictions. What is perfectly legal and okay to post in one state or even local municipality, may not be in the next. I will NOT incriminate venues or TDs working diligently and working together on this to offer players something new, refreshing and rewarding. That too was stated several times. Feel free to message me with contact info to discuss.

 

[Biloxi Boy]

In the thread of my original post AND in this slanderous post insinuating ill intent, that question was answered AND sited by another member as well as myself. Can we please wager that nothing was mentioned? LOL:: I ask that people read things thoroughly. If still uncertain, contact your local TD or even myself to answer all questions. MANY things CANNOT be stated on the main website as it enters gray areas of legality in various jurisdictions. What is perfectly legal and okay to post in one state or even local municipality, may not be in the next. I will NOT incriminate venues or TDs working diligently and working together on this to offer players something new, refreshing and rewarding. That too was stated several times. Feel free to message me with contact info to discuss.

Let's start here. Where in the US is it legal to hold a calcutta?

 

[billb]

In the thread of my original post AND in this slanderous post insinuating ill intent, that question was answered AND sited by another member as well as myself. Can we please wager that nothing was mentioned? LOL:: I ask that people read things thoroughly. If still uncertain, contact your local TD or even myself to answer all questions. MANY things CANNOT be stated on the main website as it enters gray areas of legality in various jurisdictions. What is perfectly legal and okay to post in one state or even local municipality, may not be in the next. I will NOT incriminate venues or TDs working diligently and working together on this to offer players something new, refreshing and rewarding. That too was stated several times. Feel free to message me with contact info to discuss.

With all due respect, and I mean that whole heartedly as I admire you for taking on a task like trying to create a platform like this, how can the calcutta be considered when saying that the top 8 will be paid?

My question comes from the idea that the calcutta is a separate transaction completely and there is zero guarantee that a player will buy themselves in the calcutta.

I am a pretty good player and a definite candidate for one of your events. That being said, what if I attend the event with the understanding that I pay my entry fee. But then I do not have the financial means or desire or whatever to purchase myself in the calcutta. And for argument sake, lets assume I place in the top 8. Am I safe to assume that any "payment" I may have been due would be either non-existent or greatly reduced because of my decision OR inability to buy myself in the calcutta?

I am in no way bashing you but you want amateurs to commit "do our part by playing". I will likely do that. But help me understand how I could possibly get any return if I do not purchase myself unless I win the entire event. $150 entry isnt peanuts nor is it a US Open entry. Obviously its in between, but why would I pay that if I have zero chance for return on my money unless I win the event OR purchase myself. Because if I have zero chance at return, I am only helping fund the platform for those who make the bigger event. I think that is the position of some of the players asking questions here.

Again, this post is meant with all due respect and should not be considered as confrontational. Its adults having a civilized conversation when one (meaning myself) simply doesnt understand how it could or would work if I dont purchase myself. I mean, what if someone runs me up to $500 in the calcutta for some crazy reason and I wont bid against them or buy half of myself at that price. Am I just out of luck and have to bite the bullet because I wont spend more?

 

[ChrisinNC]

With all due respect, and I mean that whole heartedly as I admire you for taking on a task like trying to create a platform like this, how can the calcutta be considered when saying that the top 8 will be paid?

My question comes from the idea that the calcutta is a separate transaction completely and there is zero guarantee that a player will buy themselves in the calcutta.

I am a pretty good player and a definite candidate for one of your events. That being said, what if I attend the event with the understanding that I pay my entry fee. But then I do not have the financial means or desire or whatever to purchase myself in the calcutta. And for argument sake, lets assume I place in the top 8. Am I safe to assume that any "payment" I may have been due would be either non-existent or greatly reduced because of my decision OR inability to buy myself in the calcutta?

I am in no way bashing you but you want amateurs to commit "do our part by playing". I will likely do that. But help me understand how I could possibly get any return if I do not purchase myself unless I win the entire event. $150 entry isnt peanuts nor is it a US Open entry. Obviously its in between, but why would I pay that if I have zero chance for return on my money unless I win the event OR purchase myself. Because if I have zero chance at return, I am only helping fund the platform for those who make the bigger event. I think that is the position of some of the players asking questions here.

Again, this post is meant with all due respect and should not be considered as confrontational. Its adults having a civilized conversation when one (meaning myself) simply doesnt understand how it could or would work if I dont purchase myself. I mean, what if someone runs me up to $500 in the calcutta for some crazy reason and I wont bid against them or buy half of myself at that price. Am I just out of luck and have to bite the bullet because I wont spend more?

I will answer your question since Sandman won’t. Yes, you are out of luck. Virtually everyone here knows exactly what a tournament Calcutta/auction is and how it works. It is completely separate from the entry fee purse/pot. Players as well as railbirds watching have the right to participate in it and bid/purchase anyone they desire. Unless you purchase all or a portion of yourself in the auction, you will receive absolutely nothing from the Calcutta pot regardless what place you finish.

 

[sparkle84]

In the thread of my original post AND in this slanderous post insinuating ill intent, that question was answered AND sited by another member as well as myself. Can we please wager that nothing was mentioned? LOL:: I ask that people read things thoroughly. If still uncertain, contact your local TD or even myself to answer all questions. MANY things CANNOT be stated on the main website as it enters gray areas of legality in various jurisdictions. What is perfectly legal and okay to post in one state or even local municipality, may not be in the next. I will NOT incriminate venues or TDs working diligently and working together on this to offer players something new, refreshing and rewarding. That too was stated several times. Feel free to message me with contact info to discuss.

Isn't it ok to talk about those things on this forum? The most recent round of discussion has been about calcuttas and how that money translates into 1st-8th payouts. Are you not free to address that on this forum?
Couple quotes from Ed's previous posts----"The top 8 players win cash via money raised from preceding satellite events run locally and/or Calcutta where allowed." The part in red is easy to understand, the part in yellow not so much.
" My only request is that PLAYERS do their part and participate in their local AMATEUR ONLY Qualifiers for $150 where the top 8 out of the 32 max players win cash that day just like any other weekly tournament, weekend tour stop or monthly event."
This is not like any weekly/monthly tournament where the 1st-8th money comes from the entry fees and if there's a calcutta that money is completely separate and sharing in those proceeds is contingent upon whether or not you invested in it.
In my area the TD has held some virtual events where you pay 25.00 to try and win the 150.00 qualifier fee. How much has been raised thru that no one has any idea and it will surely vary from area to area.
Maybe I'm way off base but I think these are the questions people want answers to.

 

[Sandman]

The NBL is designed to be a step up in the ladder for growing players from the juniors or APA type leagues to the various independent pro events. I'm happy to work with ALL organizations to offer events for players to enjoy. It's very nice and refreshing to see multiple organizations working together in the best interest of the players and the game itself.

 

[maha]

why wont he say how each place is paid and where the money goes .

this is getting ridiculous as he makes pages long posts but never answers any question about the money.

he may be trying to get something good going but certainly is losing all credibility and so wont go very far with his stance.