Is there more deflection on hard inside english than hard outside?

[pooltchr]

Steve,
There are routine 1 pocket shots that require inside english and they are NOT exceptionally difficult to execute. The difficulty lies in recognizing that inside english is the only way to succesfully execute the shot. Have you read Fel's book?

Paul Mon

Several times, as a matter of fact. I'm not sure I buy into the theory that inside english is the only way to make the shot. I think it is a very rare shot indeed that doesn't offer more than one way to play it, based on the kind of english being used. And if using inside actually was the only way to make the shot, is it worth it if that english takes you out of position for your next shot?
Steve

 

[dr_dave]

If you were you referring to stick aim, your statment is not always true. Since the stick is imo the only thing you can aim that has any meaning in a pool shot, I assumed that was what you meant.

Sorry, but I still don't know what you thought I wrote was wrong. Here's what I thought you were responding to:

quote from dr_dave:

... but this [where you aim your cue with English for a given shot] will change with shot speed, shot distance, table conditions, and cue elevation. You have to develop a feel for all of these variable. I think it also helps to understand all of the effects and trends​

Were you referring to something else, or do you think the aiming line of the cue doesn't need to change with these variables?

Thanks,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

FYI to those who are interested, I have video demos of these and several other throw and spin-transfer shots here:

http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html#examples
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html#hold
http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/throw.html#spin
​

Regards,
Dave

There are some fairly common shots that require side spin to make the ball. One is when you're slightly blocked from hitting the object ball in the right place to make it. Side spin can throw the ball and sometimes it's enough to make the shot possible.

A second is to change the angle on a bank shot by transferring (a little) side spin to the object ball. Sometimes this can be done by the cut angle (collision induced throw band spin transfer) but some shots, especially at one pocket, require side spin on the cue ball which is transferred (a little) to the object ball.

Also, you can keep the cue ball from moving too much to the side on a cut shot by using side spin to throw the ball to the correct angle rather than cut, but I think this technique works on fewer shots than people think. (An extreme example of this is to make the object ball go to the left and also make the cue ball go to the left using a level stick and right side spin.) This is not exactly an example of using side spin to make a shot, but it does point out that sometimes side spin is useful even when a cushion is not involved.

See pages 49, 86 and 99 of Byrne's New Standard Book.

 

[Paul Mon]

Several times, as a matter of fact. I'm not sure I buy into the theory that inside english is the only way to make the shot.

Agreed. I have a hard time writing what I'm thinking. My biggest benefit from reading Fel's was that I embraced inside english. I actually look forward to using it (when it is necessary). I don't fear it. I believe others can feel the same way if they read what he has to say.


I think it is a very rare shot indeed that doesn't offer more than one way to play it, based on the kind of english being used. And if using inside actually was the only way to make the shot, is it worth it if that english takes you out of position for your next shot?

Of course not. But I can tell you that if I must cinch the ball to remain at the table I'll weigh the pros and cons of which english to use. You need to understand that my mindset is that of a 1 pocket player. Cinching the ball (or even leaving it hanging in my hole) is a success if my opponent is left to deal with the hanging ball or has no offensive shot.

Paul...........................Why do I get the message about my reply being too short?

 

[KoolKat9Lives]

Paul...........................Why do I get the message about my reply being too short?

You have to type at least 10 characters "in the box" - anything inside a quote box doesn't count. Nor does posting/attaching an image.

I just hit the period button 10 times if I don't intend to write any text in the box.


..........

 

[pooltchr]

Paul...........................Why do I get the message about my reply being too short?

If your entire response is inside another quote, you will get that.

I understand what you are saying, and I don't disagree at all. I'm not saying inside isn't important. As you point out, sometimes it is the best choice for a particular shot. The point I was trying to make is that on every shot, the player has to weigh all the options available, and decide on the choices that provides the best odds for 1. making the shot and 2. getting the cue ball to end up where you need it to be.
In some cases, inside is the best option. In some cases, outside makes more sense, and sometimes, no english at all is best. There are a million different possibilities for pool shots, and each one requires different decisions as far as your angle, speed, and spin.

There isn't any one size fits all for pool. I guess I just cringe whenever I think someone suggests that this english or that english is better. It's always about the particular situation the shooter is facing. I want to be comfortable using whatever I need for any shot.

Steve

 

[unknownpro]

Sorry, but I still don't know what you thought I wrote was wrong. Here's what I thought you were responding to:

quote from dr_dave:

... but this [where you aim your cue with English for a given shot] will change with shot speed, shot distance, table conditions, and cue elevation. You have to develop a feel for all of these variable. I think it also helps to understand all of the effects and trends​

Were you referring to something else, or do you think the aiming line of the cue doesn't need to change with these variables?

Thanks,
Dave

Aim in relation to the object ball can be the same for an infinite number of aim lines. A change in the aim line does not mean you must change the aim point.

 

[dr_dave]

Aim in relation to the object ball can be the same for an infinite number of aim lines. A change in the aim line does not mean you must change the aim point.

Thank you for clarifying. I think my statements are still valid.

Regards,
Dave

 

[dr_dave]

i thought there would never be so many replies to a simple yes or no answer

The answer ... NO.

Knowing what might make some people think the answer is yes ... priceless.

Regards,
Dave