Is This A Difficult Shot For Most?

The_JV said:
The big picture from my viewing angle was this...:
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Since the scope of players found on the forum can be broad, multiple descriptions can only help them develop the thinking involved with different options. By you joining in that spirit, they get a sense of the info we consider when doing the decision making. Thanks for including yours.

Of course when we put ourselves out there like that the nits will pick.
 
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The_JV said:
I think you can, but it's a
The_JV said:
IMHO, this is the best approach of everything mentioned. However I think you're under estimating the amount of inside spin you'd need to direct the CB into the funnel rather than crossing high. You're going to want to hit nearly center diamond on that short rail. Which means a ton of spin relative to the speed. Although totally doable, the shooter is working that CB a good deal.
(y)
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I tried it on my table, oversize olhausen slow cloth. Using less than a top of inside normal pace. If familiar with spf speed range I'm around 3-4 which is average for me.
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sparkle84 said:
Forward 3 rails is not a good choice here. You just can't get long enough.
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Can get it back to center with my normal pace on the cb with a little spin
Actually can "spin it " to get it to the bottom short rail. Length doesn't seem to be the issue. Would rate my stroke as average so I think most can do this shot .
 
stumpie71 said:
I tried it on my table, oversize olhausen slow cloth. Using less than a top of inside normal pace. If familiar with spf speed range I'm around 3-4 which is average for me.
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Right on... I would have to play with more spin to make that CB stay within the funnel zone as went down table.

Curious at what spot the CB hit the short rail in your attempts...? Center..?
 
stumpie71 said:
Can get it back to center with my normal pace on the cb with a little spin
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Anything 'center' line (length) above the side pockets (head string end) isn't a good spot to be shooting the 7. You would need to pot that 7 ball firm and run back and forth to get above the 8. A little lower than the sides (center), then you can start shooting through the 7 and spinning off the bottom rail to get above the 8.

You'd want to be well on the opposite side of the table from the 6 if you are above (head string end) the side pockets.

I still think you can do the three railer. Just need more inside to hit the short rail as 'short' as possible.
 
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The_JV said:
Anything 'center' line (length) above the side pockets (head string end) isn't a good spot to be shooting the 7. You would need to pot that 7 ball firm and run back and forth to get above the 8. A little lower than the sides (center), then you can start shooting through the 7 and spinning off the bottom rail to get above the 8.

You'd want to be well on the opposite side of the table from the 6 if you are above (head string end) the side pockets.

I still think you can do the three railer. Just need more inside to hit the short rail as 'short' as possible.
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Just came back downstairs, ugh getting my workout on today up and down these stairs.
Shot it with the Rempe cb if you are familiar with it, I'm hitting between the numbers for top between 2&3. So a tip/ tip and half above center and 2 1\2 tips spin. That brings me back to the short rail (5 rails just short of the foot spot) my pace is about 4-5 ±

I don't go much above 5 or so pace wise with spin and rarely go 3 tips, 2-2 1\2 tips is a lot for me.
If I was more comfortable with extreme spin and more pace the side pocket scatch is there after the fifth rail, it was on a line to the side.
 
quick thought: are any posting posters able to post vids?
the verbiage is good, essential really
but I wonder if we couldn't more easily understand each other
and come to consensus
were we to see the shot(s), along with text that describes
 
stumpie71 said:
Can get it back to center with my normal pace on the cb with a little spin
Actually can "spin it " to get it to the bottom short rail. Length doesn't seem to be the issue. Would rate my stroke as average so I think most can do this shot .
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We may have a little issue with what "long" means in the context of this position play. Additionally, what exactly do you mean by "back to center".
Are you meaning the exact center of the whole table? And by getting to the bottom short rail do you mean your (4th) rail is the long rail under the 8 ball and dropping down to the short rail? If what I'm describing is accurate then that would be an example of coming in short on this position play. If your CB is coming off the 3rd rail anywhere to the left of where it is in JV's diagram then it's short. His line is just barely long enough and IMO the lines in his diagram are a little off to begin with. Long in this context doesn't have anything to do with how far the CB travels.
Just trying to clarify things. I guess I'll have to try and figure out the Chalkysticks thing at some point.
Anyone still not understanding this short/long thing, talk to a 3 Cushion player if possible and have them show you.
 
sparkle84 said:
If your CB is coming off the 3rd rail anywhere to the left of where it is in JV's diagram then it's short. His line is just barely long enough and IMO the lines in his diagram are a little off to begin with. Long in this context doesn't have anything to do with how far the CB travels.
Just trying to clarify things. I guess I'll have to try and figure out the Chalkysticks thing at some point.
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Oh don't hold me to the geometry on that diagram...lol. Just meant to illustrate the general path I envisioned going forward three rails.
 
evergruven said:
quick thought: are any posting posters able to post vids?
the verbiage is good, essential really
but I wonder if we couldn't more easily understand each other
and come to consensus
were we to see the shot(s), along with text that describes
Click to expand...
Ah my friend, the bolded is the problem as to why this thread is slow long... ;) It's not about consensus. At least not for me. I could realistically play this shot using any of the three ways listed, and come out just as good as the next guy. I only meant to spark some alternative thinking and pattern play.

I'm active on the forum generally as a mental break from my day job of typing on other applications. I do have a table at home and could set up the shots, but then I'd have to set up to record, and publish etc... Then there's be the complaints about it not being set up exactly right, or doing it again with a measles ball so we can see the spin. Just not that interested to be honest. Besides.., the varying abilities of Sparkle, you, Fran, or me on a pool table will skew the results.
 
The_JV said:
Then there's be the complaints about it not being set up exactly right, or doing it again with a measles ball so we can see the spin. Just not that interested to be honest. Besides.., the varying abilities of Sparkle, you, Fran, or me on a pool table will skew the results.
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haha..I'd try not to look a videotaped horse in the mouth, but now that you mention it, the resolution is kind of low, and hey, could you use a measles ball? and... :p
nah, I hear you- and I'm not posting vids myself (yet)- I was just thinking how actually *seeing* the shot would complement things here in a good way
I do actually think our varying skill levels would bring more understanding to the shot tho- just as our posts reflect who we are, what we "know," and don't
video can show those things, too- and maybe shed some additional perspective on our discussions, since ultimately, we're talking about shooting pool, y'know...
it's all g tho. I will continue to look forward to your posts, whether they contain any hot vidz, or not ^_^
 
^^^^^^^^^
Sorry Spark tried to reply to your however using my tablet I messed up your post with my response. For some reason I can't delete the draft.

I misunderstood your original post about long, thought you were talking about cb travel and not long or short on position zone.
I set the table up and have no issue with the 3 rails ending up fairly straight on the 7 ball. I'm not a video making person, but will see about trying to do a video. Did play it the side to side way and prefer the 3 rails.

I'm coming off the third rail around diamond 2 on the good side of the line in JV's diagram.
 
The_JV said:
I think you're under estimating the amount of inside spin you'd need to direct the CB into the funnel rather than crossing high. You're going to want to hit nearly center diamond on that short rail. Which means a ton of spin relative to the speed. Although totally doable, the shooter is working that CB a good deal.
(y)
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I wonder if the "ton of spin" works - in addition to sending the CB long into the end rail (a good thing), I think it then might send the CB too wide into the second long rail, once again crossing out of the "funnel".

Now I gotta try it that way...

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I wonder if the "ton of spin" works - in addition to sending the CB long into the end rail (a good thing), I think it then might send the CB too wide into the second long rail, once again crossing out of the "funnel".

Now I gotta try it that way...

pj
chgo
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That was my thinking and why I mentioned JV's diagram lines were a little off. Regardless of the details, you can go 3 rails and get marginally good but it takes a quality stroke which is the biggest reason I wouldn't consider that route. My strokes a mess.
measureman said:
173 posts on an easy shot.
How many posts on a tough shot?
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Obviously there's a ton of people with way too much free time.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I wonder if the "ton of spin" works - in addition to sending the CB long into the end rail (a good thing), I think it then might send the CB too wide into the second long rail, once again crossing out of the "funnel".
Click to expand...
sparkle84 said:
That was my thinking and why I mentioned JV's diagram lines were a little off. Regardless of the details, you can go 3 rails and get marginally good but it takes a quality stroke which is the biggest reason I wouldn't consider that route. My strokes a mess.
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lol... I don't own one of those striped CBs for gauging the application of spin. If I was to quantify "a ton of" spin. I'd say close to maximum tip placement and regulated by stroke velocity. Not sure if that makes sense. The excessive running english allows for a lighter stroke. I had no problem keeping it within the yellow funnel illustrated on the 2nd page of this thread.

Last night I hit the 3 railer 3 times.
-The first attempt hit nearly spot on the center diamond on the short rail, and came out ok, but not great on the 7. The 7 was still easily makeable, and I was able to check the CB off the short rail to get above the 8 for the same pocket. Not the easiest shot for those not adept at using follow, but that's kinda the point in encouraging players to get comfortable with it...lol
-The next two attempts I went as extreme with the inside spin as I felt comfortable with, and managed to get the CB to just outside on the first short rail diamond. The third rail contact point split the wickets between the side pocket and the third long rail diamond. From this approach angle, I was well within running down the funnel zone. Not straight down it's throat, but lots of breathing room. ...and again the 7 ball was an easy pot, and shape on the 8 ball took no more rolling forward a foot.

None of the above attempts had the pace to travel beyond the side pockets. The first landed the shortest of the group. I knew I'd be crossing the funnel more with that shot so I purposely played it shorter in an effort to stay on the good side of the 7.

Although I didn't find the 3 rail 6 ball overly daunting, I did slightly mis-gauge it on the first attempt. That first shot still provided a quality shot on the 7 that I'd say was doable by any +500 player. That said, getting real nice on the 7 off the 3 rails does take a solid stroke.
 
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