is this a legal shot or not ?????

3

3gmx

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
if the cue ball is less then a 1/4 inch from the object ball and you take your cue stick straight up and down to the table (perpendicular) and strike down on the cue ball ????? just had a few guys talking about this shot tonight ...so i wanted to see what others thought about it
 
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It can still be difficult to get the cue out of the way of the of the cue ball unless the hit is off center.
 
I believe the only stipulation is that you cannot strike the cue ball more than once. Angle of cue I don't believe is a concern.
 
Depends on a couple of things actually

First, you gotta make sure to get the cue outta the way, and 2nd, the cue ball can NOT pass thru where the object ball was sitting. A ref will look at the back edge of the object ball, and if the cue ball passes thru the line at all, it's because you were still contacting the cue ball, as it made contact with the object ball, making it a double hit. APA has some special rules for this type shot, but other leagues are about the same.


3gmx said:
if the cue ball is less then a 1/4 inch from the object ball and you take your cue stick straight up and down to the table (perpendicular) and strike down on the cue ball ????? just had a few guys talking about this shot tonight ...so i wanted to see what others thought about it
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3gmx said:
if the cue ball is less then a 1/4 inch from the object ball and you take your cue stick straight up and down to the table (perpendicular) and strike down on the cue ball ????? just had a few guys talking about this shot tonight ...so i wanted to see what others thought about it
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Typically, you need to shoot away from this ball. If they are that close you will almost always double hit the cb. In fact a lot of times the hit will look good but under a slow motion camera you will see it isn't a good hit.

In most tournaments I play they make you shoot away from the ball or it is an automatic foul. The only way you can shoot at it is if the two balls are frozen.
 
3gmx said:
if the cue ball is less then a 1/4 inch from the object ball and you take your cue stick straight up and down to the table (perpendicular) and strike down on the cue ball ????? just had a few guys talking about this shot tonight ...so i wanted to see what others thought about it
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Depends on the league or rules that you are playing by. In BCA and WPA I believe you can not do this. The rules stipulate that you have to make a legal stroke and this does not fit definition of a legal stroke. In the APA this is a legal stroke as long as the double kiss is avoided.
 
GMAC said:
Typically, you need to shoot away from this ball. If they are that close you will almost always double hit the cb. ...
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True, but there are several techniques that can keep you from double hitting the cue ball. Most players have not spent the time to learn those techniques and many referees/TDs do not understand how to judge the shot when someone tries to play it. To complicate matters, some leagues and TDs make up their own rules.
 
this is what most of the guys in our pool room thought ...you must shoot away from the ball ....if you shoot the ball with your straight up and down then we have a gray area .....(did he or did he not double hit the ball) ....did he get the stick out of the way ...and it is to hard to tell ...so if you just shoot away from the ball its easy to tell...............and this is why i think you should just shoot away from the ball ......so many opinions
 
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A slow motion video of these shots are on Dr. Dave's site. This is a MUST see education for the non-believers.

One technique used is to shoot with at least a 45 degree angle away from the ball and with inside English. Try it again with outside English and you will have more chance at a foul.
 
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NEIL this thread was not started to bother anyone and iam sure it has been asked somewhere before .... its just a ???? ........and if you dont ask you will never learn ........and i did google it before i posted this thread ...and found alot of the same gray area's
 
Neil said:
... But... the rules are easy to find, and Dr. Dave's site is even easier. Tons of info on his site.
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I'm also bothered by how few people have read the rules, and that sadly includes some world champions. I think it is just how people learn things -- they trust word of mouth more than things that are written, and consequently their pool shark Uncle Joe is their rules authority.

Here is one of the things on Dr. Dave's site: http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-61.htm It's a video quiz on the rules -- a video "You Make the Call." It's 100 shots with score sheets and answer sheet.
 
Bob Jewett said:
I'm also bothered by how few people have read the rules, and that sadly includes some world champions. I think it is just how people learn things -- they trust word of mouth more than things that are written, and consequently their pool shark Uncle Joe is their rules authority.
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Tap tap tap...

I have been training referees for many years, and in every class since I started I have included the statement that "a player's knowledge of the rules, and especially physics as applied to the rules, is usually inversely proportional to their skill level and/or experience (read:age)." I always deliver the line a little toungue-in-cheek, but the degree of truth definitely leans towards the high side. Another star of my class, relevant to the OP, is the player I call Mickey Masse, whom I channel for demonstrating various legal and illegal masse shots. You all have your own Mickeys out there somewhere. Poor Mickey thinks anything that happens when the stick goes vertical is going to be automatically legal.:sorry:

Bob Jewett said:
Here is one of the things on Dr. Dave's site: http://billiards.colostate.edu/normal_videos/new/NVB-61.htm It's a video quiz on the rules -- a video "You Make the Call." It's 100 shots with score sheets and answer sheet.
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This is an excellent test, and you should take it faithfully (at least) the first time, looking at each shot only once. The only downside I have been able to find with it are some potentially deceptive camera angles on just two or three of the shots. I talked to Dr. Dave about those, and it's part of the reason that there are a couple that, even in a tournament setting, could go either way.

One shot in particular we spent about five minutes looking at and breaking it down using the systems we train our refs with before I finally realized that the balls were conforming to the teaching system but it was the camera's perspective that was causing an illusion that they were not. Once the illusion was corrected for, everything fell into place. Dr. Dave agreed. (I kept after it doggedly because it was on of only two I missed on my first pass.) :)

Anyway, as I said, take the test and be honest about looking only once on the first pass. Be sure to print out the scoring forms before watching the video...

Buddy
 
Guys suggesting hitting away from the ball, i think it makes it sound like you must hit some other ball or a rail first like they have to do in snooker when the balls are frozen.

I find myself feathering these shots with spin for the easy to control safety. Legal and usually better than jacking up over the ob to hit some other ball.
 
Sorry I misunderstood the original post. I thought he was asking about holding the cue parallel to the table and raising the tip up to contact the cb. While avoiding the double hit but not making a legal stroke. Sorry for the confusion.
 
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