Was just watching an old-timey video of some tricks shots one of which involved a cueball near the edge of a pocket and hitting up at it through the mesh of the pocket from under the table. As amusing and useless as that really would be in an actual game, I wonder if that is actually a legal stroke? Anyone know for sure what kind of rule would explicitly say this stroke is illegal?
Is this a legal stroke?
- Thread starter RussPrince
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I am a bit at a loss here. I don't think I have read anything about something like this not being a valid shot, but it may fall under the "scoop" shot where you can't hit under the ball to jump it off the table. A shot up like that may be grouped in a similar shot as that, in that you are hitting under the ball to raise it off the bed of the table.
I'd have to say that if there is nothing in the rules about the shot, and I was asked to rule if it was OK or not, I'd say "not" by reason that you are not shooting from the playing surface but from underneath it. It may fail an appeal though and there may be an actual ref on here that faced this example in actual play in which case we may find out what the real rule is.
This actually got me thinking, can you thread your cue through the mesh of a leather pocket and use that as the bridge? You can rest your cue on TOP of the pocket on the rail and it's OK, why not through the mesh? Would make it easier to shoot a center ball shot that is near the pocket. Or is that use of equipment beyond it's scope? On the other hand, the pocket is there to hold the ball, not to rest your stick on top of, so why not through the pocket if the table is setup with holes there?
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Sure do. It's about 2:15 in on this clip
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2p_V14yPU8
That was my initial thought as well, but I figured that rule is more in place to prevent an intentional miscue golf type of shot, where this shot as shown in the clip is a full hit with the tip (no miscue)
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I can only speak as an APA referee... It is not a foul since the cue ball was not intentionally "scooped", thus creating an illegal jump.
Speaking of shooting up at balls through the pockets, I remember someone showing me that shot years ago, and if you shoot up at the ball with sidespin, the cue ball will react the opposite of what you would think (for example, hitting the right side of the cue ball imparts left spin).
I'm pretty sure that's how it worked but I don't have leather pockets to test it out, so if anyone has a table with leather pockets, please try it out and report back.
I'm pretty sure that's how it worked but I don't have leather pockets to test it out, so if anyone has a table with leather pockets, please try it out and report back.
Not exactly. Hitting upwards on the right side of the ball would put masse spin on it as if you hit downward on the left side. If there's any side spin, it would be right side spin.
pj
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I can't comment as to the legality with any amount of authority (personally I'd say it fell under the conditions of a "scoop"...however, others have already said it didn't), but I will say thanks for posting a link to the video. That was fun to watch. I love that jump shot off the rail...that's a fun one to have in the arsenal. 
Yes basically it's the same effect as a high left masse imparting topspin to the ball instead of a normal backspin masse. i used to practice the classic trickshot of putting the cueball on a chalk cube on the center of the end rail and cutting in a ball on the center of the opposite end rail. trick is to aim up with left or right to curve the ball slightly and kick the ball in.
upward direction
Not to be too picky, but I can demonstrate legally striking a cue ball in an upward direction.
You may be confusing the shot described by the OP with jumping a cue ball by scooping "under" it, - striking the table surface and the cue tip at the same time (a miscue with the ferrule actually touching the CB).
I can see where shooting up through the netting of a pocket would not be making the cue ball jump because of any miscue. I don't see much advantage to that technique except as a "trick" shot.
Not to be too picky, but I can demonstrate legally striking a cue ball in an upward direction.
You may be confusing the shot described by the OP with jumping a cue ball by scooping "under" it, - striking the table surface and the cue tip at the same time (a miscue with the ferrule actually touching the CB).
I can see where shooting up through the netting of a pocket would not be making the cue ball jump because of any miscue. I don't see much advantage to that technique except as a "trick" shot.
spin reversal
Rarely disagree with you, but there is such a shot. It's been used in trick shot competition on TV. It's shot with the CB on top of chalk on the rail. When the cue ball bounces, the spin transfers to the other side.
Rarely disagree with you, but there is such a shot. It's been used in trick shot competition on TV. It's shot with the CB on top of chalk on the rail. When the cue ball bounces, the spin transfers to the other side.
No, hitting upward on the right side, but not absolutely straight up, creates right spin.
pj
chgo
Sorry, but I have to doubt this. I can't think of a force that would cause the spin to reverse...?
Are we talking about side spin or masse spin?
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chgo
Even in snooker you could hit (slightly) upward on the CB without shooting up through a pocket. So it may be illegal to shoot upward through a pocket, but not to shoot upward otherwise.
I don't think you can get more than a very small amount of upward motion on the cue tip, and I'm sure it isn't useful, but I think it's technically possible.
pj
chgo