**Is this CHEATING**

** IS TEAMING UP TO ELIMINATE SOMEONE IN A RING GAME CHEATING?? **

  • Conspiring in a ring game is cheating

    Votes: 48 51.6%

  • If it's not prohibited by the rules, it's not cheating

    Votes: 17 18.3%

  • It's not cheating, but it's mighty shady

    Votes: 23 24.7%

  • No vote, but a comment below

    Votes: 5 5.4%
  • Total voters
    93
  • Poll closed .
td873

td873

C is for Cookie
Silver Member
What is your view of this situation:

1) 10 Ball Ring game allowing passbacks (= if you don't like the position your opponent just left you, you can pass it back and make them shoot again).
NO safeties allowed, you have to shoot every time.

2) You are down to 3 players: A, B, and C -> player C is all in (i.e., his last game unless he wins)

3) Players A misses and player B passes back on a makeable ball:
(a) apparently "gambling" that he'd get a better chance at winning later in the rack, and
(b) possible trying to get rid of player C (because now there are 3 turns before player C gets back to the table, A twice, and then B.)

4) Player A runs down to the 8 ball but is partially hooked, with only low percentage shots.

5) Player A does not try to make the ball, and instead intentionally bunts the 8 to leave an easy out for player B so that Player C will be out.

6) There are no rules prohibiting any of this.

Do you think it's OK to play within the rules, but "team" up on a player to push them out of a ring game?
 
td873 said:
What is your view of this situation:

1) 10 Ball Ring game allowing passbacks (= if you don't like the position your opponent just left you, you can pass it back and make them shoot again).
NO safeties allowed, you have to shoot every time.

2) You are down to 3 players: A, B, and C -> player C is all in (i.e., his last game unless he wins)

3) Players A misses and player B passes back on a makeable ball:
(a) apparently "gambling" that he'd get a better chance at winning later in the rack, and
(b) possible trying to get rid of player C (because now there are 3 turns before player C gets back to the table, A twice, and then B.)

4) Player A runs down to the 8 ball but is partially hooked, with only low percentage shots.

5) Player A does not try to make the ball, and instead intentionally bunts the 8 to leave an easy out for player B so that Player C will be out.

6) There are no rules prohibiting any of this.

Do you think it's OK to play within the rules, but "team" up on a player to push them out of a ring game?
Click to expand...


Any time you play a multi-player game, you risk a conspiracy. Obviously, this isn't a tournament or league match. This is a money game. The "rule" is, if you don't like it, QUIT!
 
that is pretty much what happened in olathe at the 3k ring game! it was down to mcminn,banks, and orcullo. w/banks shooting (mcminn to follow).
 
Jude Rosenstock said:
Any time you play a multi-player game, you risk a conspiracy. Obviously, this isn't a tournament or league match. This is a money game. The "rule" is, if you don't like it, QUIT!
Click to expand...
But the question is: Do you think it's OK? Not does it happen...

-td
 
Implied collusion happens, but more often in poker with 2 players who check through when a 3rd is all in.

If players A and B get together ahead of time and decide to leave it easy for each other to rob player C, it is cheating. If there are verbal conversations about what to do when they are in the game facing a rack and player C is all in, it is probably cheating.

If they have no communications between them, and that is just the way it goes down, I do not think it is cheating. As long as it would have went down the same way if player A or player B would have been all in (the other two players would have played to eliminate him) showing no favoritism, I feel it is just really tough luck.

You see it sometimes in poker when someone goes all in, two people call, nobody has a monster hand, so they both check through. If the person who was all in tripled up, the very next hand, one of the other two players is now all in, and the implied collusion has completely switched.

Kelly
 
like i was saying last nite,money talks. tell me that you and another (LOCAL player that plays most of the same tourny's) were in a tournament w/a chance to go heads up for 22k.....wouldn't the same thought cross your mind?? ecspecially w/player C being a pro player??? I know for damn sure it would have came up in my head
 
pokercartel1605 said:
that is pretty much what happened in olathe at the 3k ring game! it was down to mcminn,banks, and orcullo. w/banks shooting (mcminn to follow).
Click to expand...
Why did you have to mention that??

The poll would have gotten more honest and less biased answers if you hadn't revealed that fact.
 
jsp said:
Why did you have to mention that??

The poll would have gotten more honest and less biased answers if you hadn't revealed that fact.
Click to expand...


Like everyone didn't know exactly what the OP was talking about already:rolleyes:
 
I'd Have Done The Same Thing.... imo

It's the smart thing to do. You're playing for good chunk of change and assuring yourself (or trying to) of moving up into 1st-2nd place money is smart.
Passing the shot back to Banks was smart and Banks later moving the eightball out was double-smart. Banks and McGinn illuminated Orcullo and played each other for the lions share of money. Good for them.
In poker, it is not uncommon for two players to put (or have) another player All In and then 'check it down' (without further betting) in an attempt to illuminate them and move UP in the money.
My answer is NO, it is NOT cheating.
Doug
( as it was said in The Godfather, " I always thought it would be Tattaglia. No, it was the smart thing to do and Tessio has always been smarter."
 
bigskyjake said:
Like everyone didn't know exactly what the OP was talking about already:rolleyes:
Click to expand...
I surely didn't. The online coverage was great, but don't think that everyone involved with this forum watched it until 3am last night. I went to bed before Walden got busted, so I didn't know the outcome.
 
have to know the facts...since dennis walked away HE basically was pissed already and quit...so the roll up on the 8 happened after he left is what i heard
 
to me yeah its cheating, because when we play passback, our rule is you have to try and "make the ball". To me thats the whole point of "no safety" play, every shot has to be an effort to make it.
 
td873 said:
But the question is: Do you think it's OK? Not does it happen...

-td
Click to expand...


What I'm saying is, you're talking about a gambling rule. If you're the sucker, you can quit. If you're the corporation, you risk getting your a** kicked and/or losing action. Whether it's "allowed" is pretty much irrelevant.
 
pokercartel1605 said:
that is pretty much what happened in olathe at the 3k ring game! it was down to mcminn,banks, and orcullo. w/banks shooting (mcminn to follow).
Click to expand...

You can't play safe in a ring game. You are supposed to try to make a ball. If a legitimate effort is not made, then the TD can make the player shoot again. Something sounds fishy here. I am wondering if the TD saw what happened.

For that matter, if there is a big enough bet on Banks to win it all, they can also collude in the final match. Hmmm, so Banks needed to lose for Billy to lose his bet. Billy was taking the 7-2 odds. Right? The plot thickens.

As I always say, you have to watch your back when you are gambling. Too many funny things can and do happen.
 
This is the reason that pool will never be considered a mainstream sport, thereby limiting sponsorship and larger purses. I have witnessed on many occasions collusion and dumping in pool matches. That being said, I think that a "buyer beware" approach is the best way to gamble in general. I consider myself a good gambler and would certainly hate to be on the receiving end of some "business", but a level of caution should be taken before any gambles. That is why it's called gambling in the first place because there are risks involved. The fact is that most pool players are not wealthy and a few hundred or thousands of dollars is very significant and a bird in the hand, well you know the rest. This is the reason for all the shadiness in pool and it always has and probably will be like this.
 
I pretty much

Kelly_Guy said:
Implied collusion happens, but more often in poker with 2 players who check through when a 3rd is all in.

If players A and B get together ahead of time and decide to leave it easy for each other to rob player C, it is cheating. If there are verbal conversations about what to do when they are in the game facing a rack and player C is all in, it is probably cheating.

If they have no communications between them, and that is just the way it goes down, I do not think it is cheating. As long as it would have went down the same way if player A or player B would have been all in (the other two players would have played to eliminate him) showing no favoritism, I feel it is just really tough luck.

You see it sometimes in poker when someone goes all in, two people call, nobody has a monster hand, so they both check through. If the person who was all in tripled up, the very next hand, one of the other two players is now all in, and the implied collusion has completely switched.

Kelly
Click to expand...

agree with Kelly's point of view, and it is called posturing at that point
in the game. Heck, if I was in a ring game with Orcullo, I would want him out too .... LOL

Now, the shot on the 8 should have been a legit shot to try to make it, not just babying it up shot. But I did see shots last night in live streaming that were more safety shots than a legit try to make it shot, including one by Orcullo banking the 1 ball long so it would snug up behind the 7 ball while taking the cue ball down table. I saw other obvious safety shots also.

(Of course, is this any different than when you are forced somewhere to play 'Bar room' rules on 8 ball? Like you don't know how to miss a shot, and have it just accidently end up safe ..... LOL)


Advice: Don't ever play a ring game with 2 players related, or 2 friends that walk in together, or else it will be 'them' against 'you' from the start of it.

What happens in Basketball when the opposing team has an offensive player that you can not stop 1 on 1. Why, you double team him, of course. This doesn't happen just in sports or games, this happens out
in the business world as well.
 
****What happens in Basketball when the opposing team has an offensive player that you can not stop 1 on 1. Why, you double team him, of course. This doesn't happen just in sports or games, this happens out
in the business world as well.****

VERY well put! I would want Dennis out in this type of game as well. And seeing how Shane and Mike aren't exactly enemies and play in almost all the same tournaments (midwest 9 ball tour), I kinda figured them for splitting the money, but giving a good show. Never know I guess.
 
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