Is This The Most Important Factor In Pool?

[Rod]

I suspect it's #2, DCP. In my view, #1 is the ability to align the body, arm and head position in a way that gives you a fighting chance to deliver that perfect stroke. Proper alignment comes first.

sjm, I suppose it's one of those chicken and egg deals but without a straight throw our body isn't sure how to align. You might be aimed dead at the target and miss because of a faulty stroke. Perfect alignment (which rarely exists) does not mean the arm goes straight.

People do some funny stuff and make what should be a good execution, a blunder. They also get all contorted and force there body out of alignment. I've had success just getting people to hold the cue right and there body falls into position. One thing for sure you can't have one with out the other.

Assuming your alignment is good if you don't hit the c/b where intended the shot can or will fail. On critical shots in respect to aim and c/b reaction a little mistake is certain to spell faliure. Failure to me is not making the ball obviously, or be on the wrong side for position. If one gets out of line from a small miss hit, it can be a short journey.

In the learning process, basic shot evaluation is based on where we hit the c/b and o/b and speed of course. If we keep striking the c/b different we have nothing for a home base that can be relied on. The learning process starts there, however if you never hit the same spot twice --- well you know.

Rod

 

[bruin70]

ok, i have a question, more of an observation i suppose. here goes:

Is the ability to hit the cue ball where you are aiming the #1 factor that determines whether or not you play consistent, high level pool?

seems like, on shorter shorts, you can miss your "aim point" by 1/8" of an inch, and still be successful. however, on longer shots, if you miss the aim point by 1/16" of an inch you will not make the shot.

Mark Wilson says that is pretty much my #1 weakness, i dont hit the cue ball where i think i am, i dont hit it where i aim. the Elephant Ball pretty much shows me evidence of that. i have noticed it is much harder to hit the aim point on draw shots than it is stun and follow shots.

he mentioned players like Efren have a very, very small deviation regarding the aim point and where they actually strike the cue ball. on some of my shots with Mark the other day i missed anywhere from 1/8" to 1/4" inch. he thinks my aim is good, i just dont hit the cue ball where i want to. and that is, obviously, a flaw in the stroke.

i am working on this weakness of mine, but it is really funny how hard it is. but the elephant ball and chalk dont lie.

DCP

johnny archer states on his site that the most common reason for missing is not hitting the cb where you want . mark tadd has echoed this sentiment in the thread about pointing you tip down in your follow through.

 

[drivermaker]

I suspect it's #2, DCP. In my view, #1 is the ability to align the body, arm and head position in a way that gives you a fighting chance to deliver that perfect stroke. Proper alignment comes first.

In this month's Billiards Digest, Nick Varner addresses this subject specifically.
He states, "Two common reasons for missing are: (1) You set up over the shot on the wrong line to pocket the shot. (2) You mishit the cue ball.
Usually you get beat because you miss more balls than your opponent, so if this is your problem, addressing it should be your first priority. Good players will not shoot until they feel their alighment is good enough to pocket the ball.
If you miss a shot, and it doesn't surprise you, it means you didn't complete your aiming routine". He later says, "If you do not take care to be aware of what is happening when you aim, you cannot improve your aiming".

I think it extremely important to absorb Varner's words about aiming and not take it lightly as some do when they state, "Well, I really can't tell you how I aim, or, aiming is just second nature and you don't have to think about it once you've hit a million balls". BULLSHIT! Aiming is #1! You have to SET
UP and ALIGN properly and you MUST AIM at what you want to hit! All of us also have a shot or two on the table that has ALWAYS caused problems with a higher miss percentage. Certain cuts just don't look right and it's missed time and again. Those are the one's you have to be particularly careful in aiming.

He then explains, "Next, let's look at the SECOND major reason for missing: mishitting the cue ball. To fix this look at the fundamentals. Developing a good stroke is probably the most important of the fundamentals. Rest assured, however, that not too many players have perfectly straight strokes. My stroke tends to come a little inside-out, with the tip heading slightly to the right on the follow-through. But, it is both close to straight and very consistent. You can go a long way in this game with a consistent stroke."

 

[chefjeff]

Jeff, this is the same margin of error that I was talking about when I said I had given my self too much room. When you first start doing this drill I agree that it helps to give yourself a cusion. But if you dont start to narrow the margin your game will only get so good IMO. Granted for many people just doing it the way you have described may get their game to a point at which they are happy. But if you try to keep improving you will hit a point that you cant get past because of the variance in the way the cueball is struck.

Woody

How true your words are, Woody.

I liked what you said about the "point at which they are happy." That really says it all, IF you know what you want from your game and it seems you do.

I'm always working on hitting the cueball more accurately, too. Everday I get better and better...what more can I ask of myself?

Jeff Livingston

 

[woody_968]

he wins by playing great position.

I had to laugh out loud when I read this one. It reminded me of a guy in our local room that was watching a top player. After a few racks he said "that guy isnt that good, I can make all the shots he is shooting" LOL

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Yeah, I often find this game too easy myself. lolololol BTW, when I played Nick Varner last year, he shut me out in the World Summit 10-0 and sadly, I thought I played well.


Jude!

 

[bruin70]

,,,,,,,, And, unlike the Filipino players, he hits the cueball where he aims it.

Fred

this is a dumb argument. ALL pros(and they don't miss), hit EXACTLY where they INTEND........whether they point their tip to the contact point or not.

 

[Fred Agnir]

this is a dumb argument. ALL pros(and they don't miss), hit EXACTLY where they INTEND........whether they point their tip to the contact point or not.

I have no idea whether this is directed toward my post, which would be a gross example of quoting out of context.

Fred

 

[Rackin_Zack]

I had to laugh out loud when I read this one. It reminded me of a guy in our local room that was watching a top player. After a few racks he said "that guy isnt that good, I can make all the shots he is shooting" LOL

That's kind of like a player I know was telling me he was playing this guy for money and was kicking his arse. The guy told him, "Hell, I'd be winning if I had that many easy shots." I guess it never occured to him that there was something to making sure you have easy shots. Like the quote from Ray Martin in 99 Critical Shots, "Pool is the easiest game in the world, all you have to do is leave yourself one easy shot after another."

 

[Fred Agnir]

Nick Varner was hot for a few years, but that is it. He was not and will never be *the* greatest all-around player. Who are you kidding? You think he is better than Efren, or Luther Lassiter?

Was hot for a few years??? Have you been living on another planet?You really have no idea how good Nick Varner is, do you? It's a shame. You missed out. Nick was Player of the Year in 1980, 1986, 1989 and 1994, . He won several titles in the 90's, and won the World Bank Pool and the World One Pocket title in just the past five years. Where were you? Under a rock?

Nick was voted by his peers, his *peers*, not by some small fish in a little Md. pond, but his peers to be the best all-around player. I don't have to remind anyone else, since everyone else seems to know except for you that he's the only player to have World Titles in one-pocket, 14.1, 9-ball, 8-ball, and bank pool. Not Efren nor Luther can claim that. In fact, no other player can claim that.

Fred, in case YOU haven't watched Nick LOL, maybe you did but you just didn't get it, he wins by playing great position.

Again, you simply have never watched him. Nick is one of the greatest shotmaker ever. You simply don't have a clue how good he is. How could he possibly be the last back-to-back US Open 9-ball champion, several time World 9-ball Champion, and have won over 15 9-ball tournaments in one year without being one of the greatest shotmakers ever? He's also one of the best position players ever, as well as one of the best thinkers ever. All-around.

Of course Fred you have a perfect stroke and think this is bullsh*t, right?

A clueless debate quickly heads toward strawman tactics. Typical.

Why I would never say that I have a perfect stroke, you schmuck

If you had any decency, you'd just slink away on this topic, since you obviously need to read more than write.

Fred <~~~ talking to a wall

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

Fred, no need, no need. Nick Varner is a hall of famer. If that means little to these people, nothing you say will mean more.


For those that question Nick Varner's ability, I ask you to do this one little exercise:

Think of the best player in your area. Think of the best set you ever saw him play. Now think about how this person isn't in the hall of fame and likely never will be.


The process isn't random. You're looking at one of the greatest cueists ever. You don't get to the hall of fame lacking in pocketing skills. You don't get out of the third round of the U.S. Open lacking in pocketing skills.


Jude M. Rosenstock

 

[Bob Jewett]

this is a dumb argument. ALL pros(and they don't miss), hit EXACTLY where they INTEND........whether they point their tip to the contact point or not.

Of course this statement is false on several counts. Can anyone else see the several errors here?

But to get back to the original question of what is the most important factor in pool....

One way to approach the original question is to list the various things that could stop a run and figure out for a particular person how well that person has each factor under control. What are the basic factors? I'd say they include:

Seeing the angle (where the cue ball must hit or land on the object ball to drive it in the right direction)

Stick alignment, which is mostly determined by bridge position

Stroke that lands the tip at the right spot on the cue ball

Speed control (include power shot ability here)

Shot selection (choosing ball and position to continue a run -- mught be called "tactics")

Strategy

Are there other fundamental parts of the game? (I don't list concentration and such above on purpose. While concentration may affect all of the above, I don't think it's something fundamental in the same way as the above.)

 

[TATE]

Is the ability to hit the cue ball where you are aiming the #1 factor that determines whether or not you play consistent, high level pool?

Mark Wilson says that is pretty much my #1 weakness, i dont hit the cue ball where i think i am, i dont hit it where i aim. the Elephant Ball pretty much shows me evidence of that. i have noticed it is much harder to hit the aim point on draw shots than it is stun and follow shots.

It's not the number 1 factor in playing at a high level. You can't even get to an "A" level without having precise control of the hit.

Maybe he thinks it can come from mechanics. I believe that it evolves from practice and improved coordination. My own routines have changed and improved as a result of practice and improved knowledge, visualization, and coordination, not as a result of some conscious "change" I made tinkering with my stroke mechanics. I think alignment and setup - preshot stuff -visualization, etc. help you to get down on the cueball in alignment -
to maximize your chances of hitting as intended.

This is not being derogatory to you - but I believe not being able to precisely hit the cueball where you want to more accurately reflects your level of play at the moment than an actual flaw. For example, a "B" player is not going to have the supreme control of the cue and tip as an expert, or they would quickly become an expert.

The main thing is to get better with the cue ball control through practice, being very deliberate about what you are trying to do with the cueball - this gives you the feedback you need to learn - then to apply that on and on to learning the shape, rails, and shots.

As you get better, you will find you are hitting the cueball more and more where you intend on hitting it.

Chris