TOI is one way to make your stroke get straight, but the key is to understand the principle behind it. I experimented with it I was shocked with the way it works. I do not use it, but it is in my top drawer of my tool box, once in a while it comes in handy.
Is Touch Of Inside "the teacher"
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TOI is one way to make your stroke get straight, but the key is to understand the principle behind it. I experimented with it I was shocked with the way it works. I do not use it, but it is in my top drawer of my tool box, once in a while it comes in handy.
Glad you agreed.Mr. Cornerman..It is not surprising, that most top players use TOI....It is common knowledge among elite players, that 'deadening' the cue ball, after contact with the OB, will give you better control... However, the same can be said about Touch of Outside, or TOLow, or TOhigh..It all depends on where you want the cue ball to travel to, for your next shot !
It is NOT rocket science, and anyone who thinks TOI, is the only way to pursue the game, has no chance of mastering the game of pool, to its highest level..
PS..Also, it should come as no great surprise, that every good player uses all parts of the pocket opening, to his advantage, on every given shot..That is NOT something new, is it ?..I'm sorry, I guess I should be more considerate of beginners seeking knowledge...My bad ! ..But if they really want to improve their game..all they have to do is PAY ATTENTION !
All this talk of english.
It's running side and check side. Not English.
English is the language I speak.
Lots of love - an Englishman
It's running side and check side. Not English.
English is the language I speak.
Lots of love - an Englishman
No problem with LD. You can see from my signature line I play with only LDs. If anything LD shafts will be even a more miniscule TOI; more to the center. Once it starts clicking for you you will realize you only need a 1/4 tip or so to create the TOI angle. When I first started using it i was using way too much but you'll get dialed in quickly. Give it a chance.
That's been my observation, too. Once I got the hang of this and could recognize it in other players by watching the CB after contact, I noticed that Efren does it A LOT. That really surprised me. I always assumed he spins everything in, but watch his CB closely...especially when he isn't moving the CB around three rails...he favors the inside (TOI) until he needs to juice the CB or go multiple rails for position on a tough layout. When he's on, playing on an open table, he'll stay to the inside for the whole rack, creeping his CB into perfect position. On the other hand, I've seen both Siegel and Strickland play in person, up close and they favor the outside of the CB on almost every shot.
So, TOI is the use of parallel english to deflect the cueball to the proper contact point on the object ball?
Obviously this will work - as you say, it's just a matter of adjusting the TOI until you get the proper amount of deflection for the cut angle. Like most players, I use a combination of front hand and back hand english, and the times I have fooled around with parallel english I found it to be very hard to judge, likely due to inconsistency in trying to move and stroke the cue perfectly parallel to the line of the shot. I'm certainly not above trying TOI, but my first thought is that the solution sounds more difficult than the problem.
I'm all about not using center ball, though. I actually call it "the myth of center ball", since you almost never truly hit it, and you wouldn't know it if you did. I can certainly see the value in doing something more consistent like using a touch of inside spin, but with parallel english?
Aaron
Short answer, yes. It will. Once you catch on, it is actually less variables than you are dealing with now. I have been using a variation of CJs method for about 8 months. I am playing with a Predator P3. I have had to factor out the deflection element that is included in CJs method but it still works, just not the same as the way CJ is doing it.
At this point I cannot say that I am aiming at anything. I align to the shot and if I feel the need to focus my eyes on something it is the center of the object ball most of the time. Maybe 30 or 40 percent of the time I will look at the edge of the object ball. Just those two spots. I spend the majority of the time concentrating on the cue ball. I glance at the object ball to make sure I am aligned to the center or the edge. No more looking at the infinity of spots on the object ball to pick the right place to aim at.
In the beginning you will have to go through the steps of alignment then offsetting the tip to the inside to learn how to create the angles and get them all calibrated. It is not as easy as CJ makes it sound. It takes a lot of serious work. You have to throw away everything you have trained your pool brain to do for all those years and reprogram it. You will be fighting your old pool brain to stop trying to do it that way. Once you get the basic calibration ingrained then you can add all of the previous knowledge and experience on top of the new foundation.
This is not a casual commitment. There will be times when you think you are not going to get it or this crap doesn't work. You have to bear down and work through it. The payoff is a level of awareness about the game that you could not dream of before. I do not even think about aiming, inside tip offsets or anything anymore. I just step into the shot and I am there. Somehow the pool computer in my head works it out and I have had to learn to trust it. If I am not comfortable or feel offline, I stand up and do it again.
Before CJ started posting about this I had hit the wall. I had been stuck at the same level literally for decades. I practiced as much as anyone including SVB and I could not improve. CJ forced me to think about things in a completely new way and now the barriers are down. I can be as good as I want to be or as much as my advancing age will allow. I am definitely a born again player. I am better than I have ever been and now, I improve every single day. There have been thousands of days when I would practice all day and not improve at all.
There is no silver bullet/holy grail that is suddenly going to transform you into a player and no one, no matter what their credentials, can tell you how to play your game or operate your stroke. What CJ is presenting is a method, nothing more. You still have to do the work on your own and there is a lot of it but it does lead somewhere. For me it is well worth the time and effort to pursue it.
This is what I've been doing as well. My accuracy with TOI is better even though I feel like I'm aiming the same. The balls cut cleaner and it's easier for me to see the cut. Success is the teacher.
The 'Touch of Inside' is not a "magic bullet," however.........
Yes, I just had a huge influx of players wanting to learn TOI from me after the Derby this year. One of my students said he followed Efren around and he used TOI on virtually every shot (except when "straight in" or changing an angle off a rail).
I've played Efren many times and we played an epic gambling match in Seattle where, in 14 hours we missed less than 10 balls between the two of us. I used TOI long before playing Efren, however, he proved to me that it's a HUGE advantage playing one pocket and 9 Ball.
The 'Touch of Inside' is not a "magic bullet," however, I can teach it to anyone if they're serious about their game and willing to make the necessary changes. From my experience a player MUST get down on the shot squarely to truly utilize the technique effectively. If not most players won't be able to hit the cue ball with enough acceleration, especially if they don't understand how the wrist action works.
The process does take about 15 hours, and 3 weeks to incorporate....not because the TOI is that difficult, it's because I have to show the system of hitting the cue ball squarely EVERY time first (this requires an advanced pre shot routing that rehearses every aspect of the shot BEFORE it's performed)....if the player isn't hitting the cue ball precisely it won't matter what "system" he chooses, it will still be a "guessing game".
Play Well - 'The Game is the Teacher'
Yes, I just had a huge influx of players wanting to learn TOI from me after the Derby this year. One of my students said he followed Efren around and he used TOI on virtually every shot (except when "straight in" or changing an angle off a rail).
I've played Efren many times and we played an epic gambling match in Seattle where, in 14 hours we missed less than 10 balls between the two of us. I used TOI long before playing Efren, however, he proved to me that it's a HUGE advantage playing one pocket and 9 Ball.
The 'Touch of Inside' is not a "magic bullet," however, I can teach it to anyone if they're serious about their game and willing to make the necessary changes. From my experience a player MUST get down on the shot squarely to truly utilize the technique effectively. If not most players won't be able to hit the cue ball with enough acceleration, especially if they don't understand how the wrist action works.
The process does take about 15 hours, and 3 weeks to incorporate....not because the TOI is that difficult, it's because I have to show the system of hitting the cue ball squarely EVERY time first (this requires an advanced pre shot routing that rehearses every aspect of the shot BEFORE it's performed)....if the player isn't hitting the cue ball precisely it won't matter what "system" he chooses, it will still be a "guessing game".
Play Well - 'The Game is the Teacher'
This is why TOI is a system for playing, NOT a system for aiming (only).
You shouldn't have any problem, as long as your stroke is accurate. Make sure you hit the cue ball up to the middle diamond and make it come back and hit your tip a few times to test your precision. If you have any deviation in your cue ball contact it will make TOI (or any system) unreliable. The beauty of the TOI system is it combines the following:
1) Shot Speed
2) Angle Creation
3) Cue Ball Targeting
This is why TOI is a system for playing, NOT a system for aiming (only).....you can use other "aiming systems," but you really won't need to if you learn to calibrate your shot speed correctly......it will seem like you're shooting the same shot over and over and over and over.....that's the key to every champion's game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
You shouldn't have any problem, as long as your stroke is accurate. Make sure you hit the cue ball up to the middle diamond and make it come back and hit your tip a few times to test your precision. If you have any deviation in your cue ball contact it will make TOI (or any system) unreliable. The beauty of the TOI system is it combines the following:
1) Shot Speed
2) Angle Creation
3) Cue Ball Targeting
This is why TOI is a system for playing, NOT a system for aiming (only).....you can use other "aiming systems," but you really won't need to if you learn to calibrate your shot speed correctly......it will seem like you're shooting the same shot over and over and over and over.....that's the key to every champion's game. 'The Game is the Teacher'
rule of thumb in pocket billiards "if it's feels right, it's probably wrong".
Glad you're getting "dialed in with TOI", Ed. The more you refine and perfect your stoke the less TOI you will need to get the desired angles. The outcome is to be about to "think" the angle by just favoring a "touch" of inside.
The angle is not created just by the deflection, it's also created by the change in "shot perception" by favoring the side of the ball you're using to make the cut - ie: the right side of the ball to cut balls to the right, and the left side to cut balls to the left.
Try shooting some straight in shots and see how difficult it is to achieve if you use a "touch" of right, or left.....TOI takes this natural phenomenon and allows the player to use it to their advantage. This is not what is "natural" to any of us, however, remember the rule of thumb in pocket billiards "if it's feels right, it's probably wrong".
'The Game is the Teacher'
Glad you're getting "dialed in with TOI", Ed. The more you refine and perfect your stoke the less TOI you will need to get the desired angles. The outcome is to be about to "think" the angle by just favoring a "touch" of inside.
The angle is not created just by the deflection, it's also created by the change in "shot perception" by favoring the side of the ball you're using to make the cut - ie: the right side of the ball to cut balls to the right, and the left side to cut balls to the left.
Try shooting some straight in shots and see how difficult it is to achieve if you use a "touch" of right, or left.....TOI takes this natural phenomenon and allows the player to use it to their advantage. This is not what is "natural" to any of us, however, remember the rule of thumb in pocket billiards "if it's feels right, it's probably wrong".
'The Game is the Teacher'
ChopStick very well put. you said it exactly. I've tried TOI on and off for a year and finally did it solid for a month or so. I got it. When not in a match, just hitting balls, it seemed no better or worse than other methods. In a game, under pressure or when I am tired, it really shines. Works much better for me than anything else I have tried. I am sold.
under pressure or when I am tired, it really shines
Those are solid points. No matter what style a player chooses there will be periods of "ups and downs"......the mission is to develop a style that makes you play better the longer you play.
When I was gambling with other top level players I always knew they would sooner or later succumb to the TOI because I was creating the same speed, angle and cue ball target every time and they were using different speeds, spins, and this requires more judgment no matter how they aimed.
Watch Efren closely, he uses TOI more than many have acknowledged....with the exception of myself he uses it more than any other current champion player.
If anyone remembers the history of the 'Touch of Inside' is was Mike Lebron that told me the Filipino's "secret".....he simply said they use "a touch of inside"....and such is life -
The Game is the Teacher
Those are solid points. No matter what style a player chooses there will be periods of "ups and downs"......the mission is to develop a style that makes you play better the longer you play.
When I was gambling with other top level players I always knew they would sooner or later succumb to the TOI because I was creating the same speed, angle and cue ball target every time and they were using different speeds, spins, and this requires more judgment no matter how they aimed.
Watch Efren closely, he uses TOI more than many have acknowledged....with the exception of myself he uses it more than any other current champion player.
If anyone remembers the history of the 'Touch of Inside' is was Mike Lebron that told me the Filipino's "secret".....he simply said they use "a touch of inside"....and such is life -
The Game is the Teacher
Is this in one of the dvd's? Now, when I use center, I feel like I'm still aiming at the thick part of the ball.
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This is how the champion players can go for hours and make everything.
When you move to the inside of the cue ball's center you also allow your eye's perception to shift slightly. This naturally produces a cut...the more you move inside, the more the cutting angle that's produced.
When this is done correctly it takes VERY little TOI to create any angle off "Center/Center" or "Center/Edge" - pretty soon every shot will seem like it's "straight in" (to either the center or edge of the object ball). This is how the champion players can go for hours and make everything.....they are basically the same shot time after time.
'The Game is the Teacher'
When you move to the inside of the cue ball's center you also allow your eye's perception to shift slightly. This naturally produces a cut...the more you move inside, the more the cutting angle that's produced.
When this is done correctly it takes VERY little TOI to create any angle off "Center/Center" or "Center/Edge" - pretty soon every shot will seem like it's "straight in" (to either the center or edge of the object ball). This is how the champion players can go for hours and make everything.....they are basically the same shot time after time.
'The Game is the Teacher'
Many people thought Efren spins his ball, but that's simply not the case
I'm glad everyone's developing the "real eyes" to see what's happening with Efren's game and many others through the years. Many people thought Efren spins his ball, but that's simply not the case (only when he needs to change angles off the rail).
It's almost like there's been a brainwashing experiment going on the past 30 years as to what's really happening...I spend a lot of time "deprogramming" players, but in the end it will all be worth while.....the game is the teacher
Hope you're doing well "West Point" - take dead aim.
I'm glad everyone's developing the "real eyes" to see what's happening with Efren's game and many others through the years. Many people thought Efren spins his ball, but that's simply not the case (only when he needs to change angles off the rail).
It's almost like there's been a brainwashing experiment going on the past 30 years as to what's really happening...I spend a lot of time "deprogramming" players, but in the end it will all be worth while.....the game is the teacher
Hope you're doing well "West Point" - take dead aim.
"never be afraid to experiment with new ways of doing the same thing"
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You're welcome my friend, I'm glad you discovered your game and "figured it out" for yourself...... more and more players are starting to "real eyes" that TOI teaches things that only the Champions know......you don't have to use TOI all the time like I do, just use it for three hours straight and it's amazing what happens to your perception.
"never be afraid to experiment with new ways of doing the same thing" - CJ Wiley
CJ, if you had any idea what you just made me "real eyes"! I'll try to make this quickI started playing late in life, 28 yrs old. I'm 36 now, but for the first yr, I played on a 9ft Brunswick with old nap cloth! I practiced real hard and took lessons from Joe tucker, ginky, and a few others and got myself up to a B+, sometimes A- player! Not bad for someone who works 7 days a week and gone through bone cancer! Anyway, like I said, I started playing on the old cloth for about a yr and then moved up to simonis! I was building my stroke up at the beginning and when I got to the simonis,man, could I move the ball!
Ok, so I always return to my first table, I made a few friends who play at the bowling alley, and I always tell them, guys, you need to get on better tables, faster cloth! You will play much better
Well, I've finally "real eyes" why I play so good on those old tables!!!!!!! TOI, I didn't even think about it until you mentioned it here! I find myself putting inside on 80% of the shots on the old nap cloth!
I have to admit, I wasn't too big on your TOI system on the fast cloth for myself, but, I actually use it the old nap cloth!
I know a lot of people don't like it when CJ comes on here promoting his stuff, but you know something, I really don't care!!!! CJ, from the bottom of my heart, thank you very much, you have no clue what you solved for me! It's been about 2 yrs trying to figure it out! Thanks
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You're welcome my friend, I'm glad you discovered your game and "figured it out" for yourself...... more and more players are starting to "real eyes" that TOI teaches things that only the Champions know......you don't have to use TOI all the time like I do, just use it for three hours straight and it's amazing what happens to your perception.
"never be afraid to experiment with new ways of doing the same thing" - CJ Wiley
You're welcome my friend, I'm glad you discovered your game and "figured it out" for yourself...... more and more players are starting to "real eyes" that TOI teaches things that only the Champions know......you don't have to use TOI all the time like I do, just use it for three hours straight and it's amazing what happens to your perception.
"never be afraid to experiment with new ways of doing the same thing" - CJ Wiley[/QUOTE]
Having not read all the responses in this thread, mostly since there are numerous threads regarding TOI, here is my response. For those the don't think TOI is adequate every shot it is because you are not setting up the next shot for TOI. TOI allows you to float the cue ball to the next shot, something you are not always able to do due to table conditions. But what if you played position with TOI in mind? CJ's responses have been use TOI unless you need to change the angle of the cue ball off the rail... something you might have to do to go around the table for shape for example. If you set the next shot up for TOI... to get to the next shot... life becomes much easier.
Also, understanding what TOI is might be easier if you think of it as the cue ball having zero spin after hitting the object ball... which is what TOI does. It negates the spin from the contact with an object ball when cut at an angle. So the amount of inside is equal to the amount needed to negate cue ball spin after the contact. Enjoy.
Playing a consistent type shot will automatically strengthen your game
Those are great points and I agree that many players overlook the obvious. "Playing shape to use TOI" is certainly how you would want to look at your "patterns" and position play. I try to play to the same type angle as much as possible (a shade under half ball) to give me the most flexibility with my zones.
The game gets much more simple than just "trying to play the right side of the ball," because you are taking into account the "Touch of Inside Perspective" that will give you more of a champions overall outlook on the game. I'm not saying all champions play "TOI," I am saying that they all have a systematic way of playing position based on their favorite type shot.
Playing a consistent type shot will automatically strengthen your game if you incorporate the same principles I've described in my posts on 'The Touch of Inside".
'The Game is our Teacher'
[/QUOTE]
Those are great points and I agree that many players overlook the obvious. "Playing shape to use TOI" is certainly how you would want to look at your "patterns" and position play. I try to play to the same type angle as much as possible (a shade under half ball) to give me the most flexibility with my zones.
The game gets much more simple than just "trying to play the right side of the ball," because you are taking into account the "Touch of Inside Perspective" that will give you more of a champions overall outlook on the game. I'm not saying all champions play "TOI," I am saying that they all have a systematic way of playing position based on their favorite type shot.
Playing a consistent type shot will automatically strengthen your game if you incorporate the same principles I've described in my posts on 'The Touch of Inside".
'The Game is our Teacher'