I've been exposed to the Poker epidemic

[StormHotRod300]

Not to be rough but..

1. If you've never walked out of a pool hall with at least 170 profit then you probably aren't that good at pool.
2. If you've never made/lost more than 170 (+the fact that you posted this) in poker then you probably don't know much about poker.

I'm sorry, but you aren't really qualified for this discussion

AZE

Well, I give you a open invite to come to the pool hall I goto for tournaments, If you can walk out with 200$ after gambling with some of those guys, more power to ya, cuz there is no-doubt, that since your from outa town, you'll have to give up the world!

Hell I have to give up the world just to get someone to play me, even guys who are better than me, want me to give them the 7, or the 8 or the 7 and the breaks.

As for Poker, I've mainly played online, on Pokerstars, or played small 5$ to 20$ tournament games.

Last Weds was my first time playing a True, cash game.

As for bad beats, been there done that, burned that t-shirt. I know all about the bad beats. And it does suck, but atleast in Poker you can re-load or buy back in. In Pool, all you can do is watch someone run out. And if you play another set, and want to change the weight. What happens if the guy says NO to changing the weight? your stuck with either taking the loss or playing as is.

 

[jimmy-leggs]

Just wait until you take a couple of bad beats and go broke a couple of times. You'll be whistling a different tune.

Hey Jay,I don't know whether you were in full-tilts $1,000,000 tourny on sunday,$330 entry,5,700 people,hosted by Eric Lindgren.Alot of pro's played,I watched Mike Matasow for awhile.It was kinda interesting to watch his betting patterns.BUT,what was totally UNBELIEVABLE WAS WHO WON.Eric Lindgren won 1st place.$298,000.Either it was very impressive or a scam.What do u think?

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Hey Jay,I don't know whether you were in full-tilts $1,000,000 tourny on sunday,$330 entry,5,700 people,hosted by Eric Lindgren.Alot of pro's played,I watched Mike Matasow for awhile.It was kinda interesting to watch his betting patterns.BUT,what was totally UNBELIEVABLE WAS WHO WON.Eric Lindgren won 1st place.$298,000.Either it was very impressive or a scam.What do u think?

....rigged

 

[Andrew Manning]

Hey Jay,I don't know whether you were in full-tilts $1,000,000 tourny on sunday,$330 entry,5,700 people,hosted by Eric Lindgren.Alot of pro's played,I watched Mike Matasow for awhile.It was kinda interesting to watch his betting patterns.BUT,what was totally UNBELIEVABLE WAS WHO WON.Eric Lindgren won 1st place.$298,000.Either it was very impressive or a scam.What do u think?

Either that or he's one of the best players in the world, and it should never be surprising if he wins a tournament.

-Andrew

 

[av84fun]

Just wait until you take a couple of bad beats and go broke a couple of times. You'll be whistling a different tune.

Or just play some in Vegas where you will OFTEN be playing against 2 man "teams" signalling their hands...telling the other guy when to fold...indicating they have the "case ace" so don't worry that the pair showing will trip etc.

I played 7 stud for 6 hours once the noticed that two guys NEVER were in the same hand past the 5th card.

What difference does that make if they are splitting their winnings? Only ONE guy goes down on a bad beat...not BOTH!

(-:

 

[MikeM]

Or just play some in Vegas where you will OFTEN be playing against 2 man "teams" signalling their hands...telling the other guy when to fold...indicating they have the "case ace" so don't worry that the pair showing will trip etc.

I played 7 stud for 6 hours once the noticed that two guys NEVER were in the same hand past the 5th card.

What difference does that make if they are splitting their winnings? Only ONE guy goes down on a bad beat...not BOTH!

(-:

You're lucky if it's only two man teams. I know group who plays out of AC and there's often 4-5 of them at the same table just chopping up the fish. Pretty sophisticated plan they have and it works.

MM...fish

 

[AZE]

Sometimes a smiley face just can't make up for a statement. Re-read his post. THERE'S NO REAL ACTION HERE. Get it? As for his speed, if you are ever up this way, I'm sure he would play you.

Joke or not, it takes balls to tell someone that they aren't qualified to post in their own thread!

AZE

Well, I give you a open invite to come to the pool hall I goto for tournaments, If you can walk out with 200$ after gambling with some of those guys, more power to ya, cuz there is no-doubt, that since your from outa town, you'll have to give up the world!

Hell I have to give up the world just to get someone to play me, even guys who are better than me, want me to give them the 7, or the 8 or the 7 and the breaks.

As for Poker, I've mainly played online, on Pokerstars, or played small 5$ to 20$ tournament games.

Last Weds was my first time playing a True, cash game.

Sorry if I hurt anyones feelings, that wasn't my intent.
If I'm ever up that way, or you're ever down this way, I'll give you a chance to make more than $170.

Hope all goes well for you in pool and poker. Again I apologize.
Sorry to you too Neil.

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

You're lucky if it's only two man teams. I know group who plays out of AC and there's often 4-5 of them at the same table just chopping up the fish. Pretty sophisticated plan they ahve and it works.

MM...fish

seems to me they tend to victimize some out of towners. it's always necessary to study and observe your would-be opponents, before you decide to join in. especially if it's a serious game.

if you decide to join in, be sure to bring a horseshoe with you. you'll need it.

 

[skiflyer]

I don't think it is truly an intellectual contest at a higher level, at least I don't think hold 'em is. Once you know the odds, it seems like it is just a matter of out-guessing your opponent. When the good players play each other they aren't going to out think one another, they're going to guess whether or not their opponent has what he is trying to behave like he has. Sure the pros (and sounds like you too) can figure out where a casual player is coming from, but I think when they play each other it is back to guessing. Watching those poker shows on tv the pros are bluffed as often as they know to call or laydown a hand, sometimes they guess right, sometimes they don't.
JMHO. BTW, if you couldn't tell, I won't play hold 'em or any other poker games with cards shared between opponents.

Hand by hand I would agree. Tournie by tournie I disagree. Over a lifetime I strongly disagree. Short vs. long memories and strategies are just one of the many things that separate the pros from the amateurs in the card room.

It's not all that different from a game like blackjack... 49-51 odds that you lose, if you can swing those odds 2% you'll be rich over a lifetime. In the poker room, at a ten person table, odds start even, 10% each. If you can swing those odds 1% you'll be rich over a lifetime. (Cash games, tournies suck)

 

[av84fun]

You're lucky if it's only two man teams. I know group who plays out of AC and there's often 4-5 of them at the same table just chopping up the fish. Pretty sophisticated plan they have and it works.

MM...fish

Roger that...and for the OP...the poker "craze" was just that. TV ratings have plummeted.

(-:

 

[av84fun]

seems to me they tend to victimize some out of towners. it's always necessary to study and observe your would-be opponents, before you decide to join in. especially if it's a serious game.

if you decide to join in, be sure to bring a horseshoe with you. you'll need it.

You cannot detect them. There signals are WAY too sophisticated....and get changed frequently.

If the dealer suspects a team, he's supposed to call a pit boss but they rotate the dealers so frequently that they rarely detect the teams.

Playing casino poker...especially stud...is ONLY for people who actually LIKE to lose money.

Teams are harder to run in Hold Em because of the common cards...one player trips and another catches a straight on the SAME card and the fact that so few cards are turned up vs. 7 card stud.

The more cards that are turned up, the more useful it is to know what your team member's hole cards are.

Regards,
Jim

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

Don't Make Me Get A Black Eye And A Broken Finger Again..... OK ?

You cannot detect them. There signals are WAY too sophisticated....and get changed frequently.
Regards,
Jim

There are many ways to play best/top hand with a partner or two. You may cover your cards with your right hand which can mean fold or raise and placing one hand atop your other hand may mean something else and yet something else depending which hand is on top. Picking up you cards with your right hand and thumb & forefinger for a second look may mean Aces, while picking them up with your thumb & two fingers may mean Kings. Using your left hand may denote something entirely different. Where and how you place your cards face down in front of you may mean something also (think of 'the clock system). There are word codes, touching a certain part of your face, a smile or frown and on and on. Collusion at the table is almost impossible to detect, even for the most astute and wary of us, but it always pays to be alert. When one partner has a good hand, the other will raise to get the sucker to put more money in the pot.

I grew up (and supported myself for 15 years) playing poker in New Orleans in cash games where the deck & deal passed around the table. Some 'players' were adept at manipulating the cards. You had to not only keep your eyes open, but had to also 'listen' to the deck in order to detect funny business. Is it any wonder that I'm covered in scars and had over 100 fights. I didn't tolerate any foolishness and backed up my bark with some bite.
Use cold decks, shiners, cigar stubs, daubers, signals, seconds, false shuffles, etc. at your own peril... imo )
Doug

 

[Hail Mary Shot]

You cannot detect them. There signals are WAY too sophisticated....and get changed frequently.

If the dealer suspects a team, he's supposed to call a pit boss but they rotate the dealers so frequently that they rarely detect the teams.

Playing casino poker...especially stud...is ONLY for people who actually LIKE to lose money.

Teams are harder to run in Hold Em because of the common cards...one player trips and another catches a straight on the SAME card and the fact that so few cards are turned up vs. 7 card stud.

The more cards that are turned up, the more useful it is to know what your team member's hole cards are.

Regards,
Jim

Dunno how sophisticated they maybe. but hey, that's why you must sharpen your instincts. you might not be able to detect it, but you know that there is simply something wrong about what is happening. whenever I play, I never forget to always take a look at my opponents and some of those bugs around. any slight changes in behaviour could already mean an anomaly. a sneeze, cough, sigh, scratch on the forehead, etc... can or is a signal. if someone is fooled into believing that he lost due to bad luck or simple misread and not because of team cheating, then that person is no smart gambler. those cheaters would have a holiday everytime he shows up to play them without suspecting a thing. what a poor sight.

this is also the main reason why a lot of people die or end up in jail playing poker than playing pool.

 

[av84fun]

There are many ways to play best/top hand with a partner or two. You may cover your cards with your right hand which can mean fold or raise and placing one hand atop your other hand may mean something else and yet something else depending which hand is on top. Picking up you cards with your right hand and thumb & forefinger for a second look may mean Aces, while picking them up with your thumb & two fingers may mean Kings. Using your left hand may denote something entirely different. Where and how you place your cards face down in front of you may mean something also (think of 'the clock system). There are word codes, touching a certain part of your face, a smile or frown and on and on. Collusion at the table is almost impossible to detect, even for the most astute and wary of us, but it always pays to be alert. When one partner has a good hand, the other will raise to get the sucker to put more money in the pot.

I grew up (and supported myself for 15 years) playing poker in New Orleans in cash games where the deck & deal passed around the table. Some 'players' were adept at manipulating the cards. You had to not only keep your eyes open, but had to also 'listen' to the deck in order to detect funny business. Is it any wonder that I'm covered in scars and had over 100 fights. I didn't tolerate any foolishness and backed up my bark with some bite.
Use cold decks, shiners, cigar stubs, daubers, signals, seconds, false shuffles, etc. at your own peril... imo )
Doug

GOOD STUFF Doug. I LOVE to see card mechanic demonstrations. Some of those guys are just totally unbelievable!!

And it's cool that you did your share of "biting" but a buddy of mine got shot in the belly in a blind pig in Detroit. Fortunately, it was a .22 and missed his vital organs...but sometimes, being a good fighter isn't enough!

Back in high school another guy I know beat the TAR out of a guy in a parking lot...and the guy's GIRLFRIEND ran him over with a car and crushed his right elbow almost beyond repair!

That's when I decided I'd rather be a lover than a fighter!

(-:

 

[shanesinnott]

I now know why, people have been jumping on the Poker bandwagon!

So last week, I got the local bar that has a couple bar tables and one 9ft table. Well after practicing for about 20mins, I notice in the adjacent room they have some Texas hold'em going on. So I pack up my stuff and go check it out. I've played Texas hold'em off n on for the last couple of years but nothing serious.

Well, I get into a money game. nothing big, 1-2 hold'em, max beat 100$, 30$ buy in. So I buy in with 80$. I spend just under 2hrs playing and walk out with 170$

Now I've never walked outa the pool hall winning 170$ either it be a tournament or gambling. Why? because everyone who gambles wants the nuts, and if you happen to out run the nuts, they quit after a few sets. Or they want more weight.

And in tournaments the only one that pays out big, in the area I live in is in the city I usta live in, and its rigged so in favor of the house players that its stupid. Like yesterday, I see two guys I know who are an A player and a AA player get stomped on by a guy who's rated as a C player. He beat both of them 7-2 and 7-1. And then said guy ends up winning the tournament too.

Now, in pool you have if your gambling, try and find a fair game. It never happens, cuz everyone wants the Nuts. And in tournaments its such a crap-shoot that its stupid and people are beating up on each other for what? 500$, maybe 1000$???? if your lucky a good Florida tour pays out 3000$ or so.

But in Poker, you dont have to worry about not being able to run out, or play safe good enough. You just have to play your cards right. You dont have guys wanting such a crazy spot that the game isnt even win-able.

Plus the money that you have the opportunity to win in Poker is unreal compared to how hard you have to work at Pool, just to be able to break EVEN!!!!

Now while it pains me to say this but, it sucks to know that pool is going to be on the back burner now, while playing Poker is a front runner.

I feel you! I started playing on July 28th last year and ended the year up $4800 (good for a beginner IMO) playing live poker in a card room 2 to 5 nights a week (I am exactly $1 down for 2008 so far and yes, I keep accurate records and suggest you do the same)

As Doug said to me back in August when I posted about my new found passion...."don't play rag aces" and my advice to you is: you need a better hand to call a raise with than you do to raise with.

Have fun, it s a great game.

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

I know a guy that use to buy several decks, mark them all, and then re-seal the decks with a packaging machine he had bought. He wore contacts to be able to read the cards. You couldn't tell otherwise. And if you had a lot of money on you, and he couldn't get it in the game, he would mug you afterwards.

There's too many low-lifes around poker for me.

LOL.... I played a guy that had a marked deck and was using contact lenses and they made his eyes look RED like Linda Blair in The Exocist. I accidently spilled my mixed drink on both decks and we sent out to the 7-11 store for new decks and I busted him playing heads up.

They accused Stu Unger of cheating when he won the WSOP wearing those blue glasses (I think AZBer 'punter' is using a picture of Stuey in those glasses as his avatar).

The real Professional cheaters are using 'white flash' (and maybe blue flash) on doctored decks and it's nearly impossible to spot unless you are trained to look for it. Any type of gambling (cards, pool, horses, jai-alai, dice, whatever) will surely bring out cheaters, systems and gadgets. I used some myself and sold my 'whip cup' and dice to Gene "The Glove" Catron for $100 when he was living with Steve Cook. You could win a ton of money in a bar or poolroom with a whip cup and also get yourself dead if you ran into someone that knew what you were up to... caveat emptor
Whip Cup: http://www.theambitiouscard.com/aitem.cfm?itemid=49
To learn about White Flash & ALL types/forms of poker cheating: http://www.bobkohlermagic.com/vcom/product_info.php?products_id=111
Doug


.

 

[Hidy Ho]

I don't play pool for money ... for me, it's a "sport" like my former passion golf. I'm trying to be the best that I can be.

Both "sports", I will gamble some but I get more satisfaction by playing up to my expectation and on rare occasion beat the living crap out of better players

 

[midnightpulp]

I don't think it is truly an intellectual contest at a higher level, at least I don't think hold 'em is. Once you know the odds, it seems like it is just a matter of out-guessing your opponent. When the good players play each other they aren't going to out think one another, they're going to guess whether or not their opponent has what he is trying to behave like he has. Sure the pros (and sounds like you too) can figure out where a casual player is coming from, but I think when they play each other it is back to guessing. Watching those poker shows on tv the pros are bluffed as often as they know to call or laydown a hand, sometimes they guess right, sometimes they don't.
JMHO. BTW, if you couldn't tell, I won't play hold 'em or any other poker games with cards shared between opponents.

Well, the out-guessing is the "intellectual contest" I was referring to. Odds based reasoning is more useful in limit than in no-limit. In limit, the size of the pot is often 5 times + the size of a bet. So in a pot of 10 bets, even if you're 89% percent sure your opponent has you beat, you still have to call.

In no-limit, obviously the decisions are much tougher. Playing against other good players is where the game starts to resemble an actual game and not a card catching contest. For example, say I'm playing against a player I know quite well and he knows me quite well. I'm aware of the fact that I've slowplayed all my nut hands against him, which he knows. We're involved in a hand again, I have nothing, and I read him as having a marginal hand. So I decide to run a bluff that looks like a slowplay. It may work or it may not. He may have a monster and played it as such that I read him as having a marginal hand, in which case he would've outplayed me.

But again, games where you have to make sophiscated multi-level thinking moves aren't going to be that profitable, because for these moves to have a chance at success requires your opponents to also be good at poker. A fish rarely lays down anything that has connected with the flop. So the strategy is simple: Find a soft game, play tight, and value bet the crap out of your good hands/draws.

But I wholeheartedly agree with you that good players put the moves on as much they're getting the moves put on them, so it evens out. Plus, it would take millions of hands between any number of players to really determine who is the best.

The "best poker player in the world" changes every year.

 

[midnightpulp]

I now know why, people have been jumping on the Poker bandwagon!

So last week, I got the local bar that has a couple bar tables and one 9ft table. Well after practicing for about 20mins, I notice in the adjacent room they have some Texas hold'em going on. So I pack up my stuff and go check it out. I've played Texas hold'em off n on for the last couple of years but nothing serious.

Well, I get into a money game. nothing big, 1-2 hold'em, max beat 100$, 30$ buy in. So I buy in with 80$. I spend just under 2hrs playing and walk out with 170$

Now I've never walked outa the pool hall winning 170$ either it be a tournament or gambling. Why? because everyone who gambles wants the nuts, and if you happen to out run the nuts, they quit after a few sets. Or they want more weight.

And in tournaments the only one that pays out big, in the area I live in is in the city I usta live in, and its rigged so in favor of the house players that its stupid. Like yesterday, I see two guys I know who are an A player and a AA player get stomped on by a guy who's rated as a C player. He beat both of them 7-2 and 7-1. And then said guy ends up winning the tournament too.

Now, in pool you have if your gambling, try and find a fair game. It never happens, cuz everyone wants the Nuts. And in tournaments its such a crap-shoot that its stupid and people are beating up on each other for what? 500$, maybe 1000$???? if your lucky a good Florida tour pays out 3000$ or so.

But in Poker, you dont have to worry about not being able to run out, or play safe good enough. You just have to play your cards right. You dont have guys wanting such a crazy spot that the game isnt even win-able.

Plus the money that you have the opportunity to win in Poker is unreal compared to how hard you have to work at Pool, just to be able to break EVEN!!!!

Now while it pains me to say this but, it sucks to know that pool is going to be on the back burner now, while playing Poker is a front runner.

You should be aware that online poker games are getting tougher and tougher due to the wealth of information available and the shutdown of Party Poker. I remember a good earn rate in a limit game used to be 3 big bets every 100 hands. Now it's 1 big bet.

Live poker is much easier, but the rake is a lot higher and a bad run can last for months. Plus, to actually make some real money you have to at least play 15-30. In the 1-2 game, you won't make 85 bets in 2 hours all the time. That's considered a mega rush. The standard earn rate for a good player in a live limit game is 1 big per hour. So 4 dollars for 2 hours is what you'd stand to make in that game. If there's no rake, you might be able to get up to 2 BB an hour.

Anyhow, good luck and make sure to study the game as much as you can.