ivory ban?

[slide13]

Really. Read here, their logic makes no sense in light of the size of the illegal market in the US, vs the amount being poached. The poached stuff isn't coming here.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/dougban...l-elephants-and-treat-americans-as-criminals/

To quote:

Outlawing this trade makes no sense. In September 2012 USFWS admitted: “we do not believe that there is a significant illegal ivory trade into this country.”

There is no source provided for that quote, and therefor no context within which to evaluate it, and it is featured in a Forbes oppinion news piece. I think I'll take the FWS website over that.

Now, don't confuse my arguments for support of this new rule, while I agree with the premise of protecting elephants and do think that eliminating the ivory market would be beneficial, I don't believe the current plan is the correct approach. I don't think people who currently own ivory contaned in things like pool cues, instruments, etc. should be limited in the resale of such items.

 

[jtaylor996]

Look at tortoise shell products. As a musician I use some TS picks (made from 100 year old lamps, a process that is also illegal), and TS has been used in violin bow making in the past as well.

TS has been pretty much totally banned as they want to do for ivory since the beginning if CITES in the 1970s, and it has done nothing but drive the poaching to supply markets in Asia that just don't give a shit.

Banning ivory just makes poaching and smuggling more profitable.

 

[jtaylor996]

And this I show it usually goes down:

http://reason.com/blog/2014/06/05/ivory-bans-leads-budapest-orchestra-to-b

With CITES, there is no innocent until proven guilty. Even if you have paperwork proof that it's not cites material, they still confiscate even if it remotely looks like a cites item.

Typically they confiscate and destroy, and there is no appeals process. I've never heard of an item being "allow to reexport" like in this article. I guess they knew they couldn't do their usual shit under the current scrutiny.

Further, there are only 5 airports you can enter, if you do have cites paperwork ($90 fee and 6 months processing each time), and the paperwork is almost impossible to get in the first place. I own stuff with many cites materials: ivory, tortoise shell, ebony, rosewood, pernambuco, etc... All of it completely legal, and I can't get paperwork on ANY of it.

There are all sorts of horror stories of confiscation even if you do have the paperwork. It's an ENORMOUS risk even if you've done everything to the letter of the law. Never forget there are TSA type employees doing these inspections on entry.

They say they're allowing you to keep stuff, but this is really a de facto ban, and major violation of the 5th amendment. All in executive unilateral order, to boot, so no input or oversight on any of this. Fooking King Obama!!!

 

[JoeyInCali]

Look at tortoise shell products. As a musician I use some TS picks (made from 100 year old lamps, a process that is also illegal), and TS has been used in violin bow making in the past as well.

TS has been pretty much totally banned as they want to do for ivory since the beginning if CITES in the 1970s, and it has done nothing but drive the poaching to supply markets in Asia that just don't give a shit.

Banning ivory just makes poaching and smuggling more profitable.

You mean like this?

 

[DrGonzo]

Maybe this is a question for the Mods, but is AZB going to ban the sale of ivory cues on their website? What if the description doesn't say "ivory", like sales on ebay?

 

[classiccues]

Its not just pool cues....

Music (Inlays, violin bows, Piano) Although I hear they do have some provisions
Old clocks
Cigar / cigarette / pipe collectors
Knives
Guns
Netsuke
Razor collectors
Canes
Chess pieces
People that collect gambling / gaming items, dice and old poker chips
Comb / brush / old make up collectors

There are a plethora of hobbies that are going to be adversely affected.

JV