Ivory Ban

Bavafongoul

Bavafongoul

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I just spoke with a special agent in CA Fish & Wildlife about the ivory ban. The Department of the Interior in Washington, DC originally referred me to the Chief Biologist but he subsequently referred me to the enforcement group applicable to my residency, i.e., CA Fish & Wildlife.

Appearing below is the link to a website that has great information. The agent I spoke with explained that the exemption for musical instruments is still being debated but something will get done that allows international transportation. Anyway, there will not be ex post facto enactment of this regulation and pool cues are not subject to confiscation solely due to possession.

If you possessed a leopard jacket from a 1930's safari your grandfather went on, it's legal. And you can wear the jacket and keep it legally in your family ad infinitum without any problems.....you just can't sell the jacket. The special agent I spoke with said the new regulation needs more time and study before it can be effectively enforced.

http://www.fws.gov/international/travel-and-trade/ivory-ban-questions-and-answers.html.........Some Azers may already know of this website.

Matt B.

p.s. It sounds like Micarta ferrules & MOP inlays may become really in vogue at some point.
 
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Effectively demolishing value for dealers...

There will be lots of new "distant cousins" popping up at expos soon.
 
ideologist said:
Effectively demolishing value for dealers...

There will be lots of new "distant cousins" popping up at expos soon.
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Yes, and collectors alike.

Anybody thought yet about all the old Gus players.....what are people going to start replacing ferrules to be able to legally sell them.

Nothing promising coming out of this bunch of self-serving goons in D.C. This will likely get settled years later through the courts.

Saddest of all, no elephant will be helped in this matter. :angry:
 
The ivory ban has been in the cards for quite some time. I'm amazed that so few cuemakers have made the transition away from ivory. We have synthetic materials today, that works just as ivory, maybe even better...
The nostalgia argument is quite lame, I don't hear pool players demanding that ivory balls should be brought back..
Hopefully there will be "loopholes" so that cues allready made with ivory still can be legally transported within the 50 states.
As for cuemakers that have horded ivory, all I can say is : tough luck!
 
Kim Bye said:
The ivory ban has been in the cards for quite some time. I'm amazed that so few cuemakers have made the transition away from ivory. We have synthetic materials today, that works just as ivory, maybe even better...
The nostalgia argument is quite lame, I don't hear pool players demanding that ivory balls should be brought back..
Hopefully there will be "loopholes" so that cues allready made with ivory still can be legally transported within the 50 states.
As for cuemakers that have horded ivory, all I can say is : tough luck!
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It's not about "replacement materials", it's a much bigger issue that reaches far outside our little pool/billiards world.....one involving individuals' freedoms and property rights, killing jobs, and wealth destruction.
 
The Special Agent I spoke with, Sean Moss, was very open and understanding about this dilemma.
It's the illegal importation & exportation of elephants tusks for commercial purposes that's the issue and the needless slaughtering of elephants.
Sean told me about one of the oldest, largest elephants in Africa, and the entire world, recently being killed by poachers 2 days ago........Story appears below.......

Nonetheless, I still remain steadfast in my support for using legal ivory in pool cues. Besides, I only buy my cues to keep so any subsequent sale is of scant interest to me.

Matt B.


http://gawker.com/poachers-in-kenya-kill-one-of-the-worlds-largest-elepha-1591134015
(If you can't connect to this webpage, the article appears below sans any photo of Satao)

A 50-year-old elephant named Satao, one of Africa's last "great tuskers," has been poisoned to death by ivory poachers in Kenya.
Satao's death was announced in a press statement issued by Tsavo Trust, a Kenyan-based organization that works to protect the security of wildlife:

"Today it is with enormous regret that we confirm there is no doubt that Satao is dead, killed by an ivory poacher's poisoned arrow to feed the seemingly
insatiable demand for ivory in far off countries. A great life lost so that someone far away can have a trinket on their mantelpiece."

Satao was well-known for his giant tusks, which weighed over 100 pounds. He was killed by poisoned arrow on May 30th and his carcass was found on
June 2nd, but Tsavo Trust held off on releasing information "to avoid any potential false alarms." The poachers cut off Satao's face and stole his tusks,
but conservationists who had studied Satao for years identified him from the ears and other marks on his body.

Frank Pope of Save The Elephants in Nairobi spoke to the Telegraph about the elephant's death:

"The loss of such an iconic elephant is the most visible and heart-rending tip of this iceberg, this tragedy that is unfolding across the continent."


According to a report published on Friday by the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora,
over 20,000 African elephants were poached for their tusks in 2013.
 
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J-Flo said:
http://www.opposingviews.com/i/soci...killed-poachers#sthash.RqmIoZ2l.8bDhQTa4.dpuf

Joey A posted this article on FB today. What ever your stance is on the ivory thing, you cant look at this animals photos (before and after) and think thats its ok for these things to happen.
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Of course it's not ok. Posting this kind of visual thing is pure shock-factor. Anybody and everybody I know of in this industry is 1000% anti-poaching. Why? Well, the industry has/had a legal market for utilizing pre-ban ivory that worked and at least made sense here in the US. It's being replaced by something that makes no sense.
 
cueaddicts said:
Of course it's not ok. Posting this kind of visual thing is pure shock-factor. Anybody and everybody I know of in this industry is 1000% anti-poaching. Why? Well, the industry has/had a legal market for utilizing pre-ban ivory that worked and at least made sense here in the US. It's being replaced by something that makes no sense.
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Lighten up Francis! Im not going for the shock factor. Fact is, this stuff does very little for me because I think with a pretty clear mind. I watched my best friend get his head blown off just Five feet from me. So check your self. I just purchased a cue here on AZ with ivory. Im going to change over to non ivory material because I have no way to prove that the ivory is from a pre-ban source. Just my personal preference after reading the article. You can say what ever you want to justify the use of ivory in cue sticks but we all know its unnecessary. but because "Im an American" and" its my right" attitude, these animals will keep getting slaughtered by cowards who sell to cowards. But happy shooting to you.

P.S I have very good friends who have cues with ivory and that wont change how I feel about them at all. For me its wrong
 
You know which country has the poaching problem? The one with the bans in place: Kenya.

How can they possibly think banning ivory is going to do anything but drive the black market?

Also, Al Shebaab killed like 50 people if they weren't Muslims the other day (went door to door while everyone was watching the World Cup). No Facebook stories about that...

But this f'ing elephant and my 100yr old ivory is a big deal, somehow.
 
jtaylor996 said:
You know which country has the poaching problem? The one with the bans in place: Kenya.

How can they possibly think banning ivory is going to do anything but drive the black market?

Also, Al Shebaab killed like 50 people if they weren't Muslims the other day (went door to door while everyone was watching the World Cup). No Facebook stories about that...

But this f'ing elephant and my 100yr old ivory is a big deal, somehow.
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Not sure if this is the same but maybe this will hold you over

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10202210205829189&set=vb.1010958330&type=2&theater


got this off of Ike's page
 
Well, I have come to the conclusion that I will never purchase another cue with Ivory in it. The "story" about people owning pre-ban Ivory is being exploited by greedy people and the slaughter of rare beasts like the one in the following link tells all you need to know.

ALL countries should ban Ivory in all forms. I don't know if it will happen or not but until you take the profit out of poaching elephants, it will continue.

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/soci...ous-elephant-admired-many-was-killed-poachers

Have never been a PETA type person but the slaughter of such a magnificent beast JUST FOR IT'S IVORY TUSKS, is just plain sinful and disgusting.

I might better understand if their killing was to feed a man's family but this is simple greed and about money.

JoeyA
 
jtaylor996 said:
How can they possibly think banning ivory is going to do anything but drive the black market?

.
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Then there is no problem... folks can still buy it on the black market, why so much fuss then? Until folks stop buying it, it won't change. No other sport needs ivory in their equipment to play, but somehow pool players need ivory to shoot pool. Not necessary, never was, never will be. This is worse then women who want fur coats... it means nothing but show.....
 
JoeyA said:
I might better understand if their killing was to feed a man's family but this is simple greed and about money.

JoeyA
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It is... for the poachers. They have no other jobs and no other ways to feed their families in their situations. It is definitely wrong, however I was e-mailed by someone I sold some ivory balls to a year ago and she offered me double what she paid then.

Do you know what the only consistent thing is? Every time they get uppity and make the regulations tougher the price goes UP. So then, the poachers price will go UP. Making it more lucrative for them. They are going to sign the death knell for the elephants in a month.

JV
 
classiccues said:
It is... for the poachers. They have no other jobs and no other ways to feed their families in their situations. It is definitely wrong, however I was e-mailed by someone I sold some ivory balls to a year ago and she offered me double what she paid then.

Do you know what the only consistent thing is? Every time they get uppity and make the regulations tougher the price goes UP. So then, the poachers price will go UP. Making it more lucrative for them. They are going to sign the death knell for the elephants in a month.

JV
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Not always the case. Once people found out how animals were raised in the fur industry, sales have fallen ever since. The social stigma that is attached to fur is stronger than the desire to wear a fur coat. Do some people still ware fur coats, absolutely. Have most of the fur coat retail stores gone out of business, absolutely. I remember large fur stores advertising on the large networks here in Chicago. Don't see that anymore. So when a cue owner realizes that a large portion of pre band ivory actually came from elephants who were slaughtered the same way the elephant was in the picture below, maybe the demand will go down. Thats right sports fans, your pre ban ivory loaded cue was made possible by an animal who met the same fate as the elephant in the article. But it was all legal. So if your comfortable with owning material that was harvested in such a way than more power to you.
Just because you have the "right" to do something, doesn't mean its the "right " thing to do.
 

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J-Flo said:
Not always the case. Once people found out how animals were raised in the fur industry, sales have fallen ever since. The social stigma that is attached to fur is stronger than the desire to wear a fur coat..
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Taking a train downtown for work a few years ago, and a lady with a fur coat gets off in front of me. Somebody follows her and sprays some type of die or ink on the back of her coat....it happened fast....and the lady screams that her coat is ruined, and starts blabbering to anyone that will listen, wanting us to call the cops.

I believe the coat still "works", so not really sure what was "ruined" that day ??
 
Just curious, if anyone knows how long it takes ivory to cure/season? (cured to what a cue maker would need) To my understanding it needs to be cured properly or it will crack. Ivory tusk that were near a fireplace are no good because they would have dried to fast and are very likely to crack. Green ivory that hasn't cured or seasoned will crack. So the question is how long does the ivory have to sit around at or near 40% humidity to cure completely?

I have been told by two very respected cue makers that would be about 20 to 25 years depending on the size of the tusk.
Just curious and anyone has heard differently?
 
I really don't want to know why you're asking that. It's not possible that there is legal green ivory in the US. Import has been banned (other than from a few sustainable hunts) for more than 25 years.
 
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