I was just having this discussion with a friend of mine when I was showing him the Gilbert cues that are Cueaddicts just got in. He asked me where cuemakers get their ivory from. I told him what I had heard many times before and usually tell people, that it is pre-treaty ivory. However, I got to wondering about it and I would think there is certainly a finite amount of pre-treaty ivory so how do cuemakers leagaly aquire elephant ivory? Thanks in advance for any input you can provide!
Ivory in cues...
- Thread starter Rackin_Zack
- Start date
Most cuemakers I know use preban, and that's why It is not cheap to purchase, there is only so much legal ivory to go around as I believe you mentioned, so supply & demand is probably the biggest issue. Some people, saw the ban coming, and stored It before It took effect, therefore legal, that is the only reason I know of, that It is even still around. Some are working with other legal materials, to try to find something with the same characteristics, as an alternative to use. I am sure the ivory supply won't last forever, and price will keep going up as the supply is used up. Cuemakers are not the only people using It in there craft either, so probably happen sooner then later IMO.
I grew up in Dover Ohio. In Dover there was a man named Mooney Warther, he was a master carver. His works are in a museum there. The Smithsonian has appraised his works as priceless. Anyway to get on point, he bought literally tons of it, before there was a ban. His heirs keep it in huge safes and sell it. I used to see ebay listings from them.Rackin_Zack said:
Tracy
RSB-Refugee said:
Yes I am familiar with him somewhat, and they were one of those I had in mind when replying. That was a move that is probably still paying off for them, and from what I have seen the quality of the material is good, and well taken care of. Alot of times people will see this type of thing coming, invest in It, but usually the real pay back is not seen until generations later. Keep up with the current events, and may see the next one coming. Maybe old growth exotic wood for instance? It is already costly, but do you think It will ever go down in value? Not likely, and Farm grown will never be the same. Greg
David Warther is THE MAN when it comes to ivory.
http://www.ivorybuyer.com/
I will buy nowhere else.
http://www.ivorybuyer.com/
I will buy nowhere else.
Yep that's the one I was talking about. If any of you are ever near Dover, check out the Warther Museum it is awesome.Sheldon said:
Tracy
ivory in cues
David sent me a VERY YELLOW tusk section. He did tell me how to bleech it, but I was not happy...JERSheldon said:
I have bid on and bought many tusks from estates and other auctions. I used to be able to get them for under $60 per pound even after the ban when it was abundant. Now I might pay close to double that that for a large tusk. It has made it to where being in the ivory business is not very profitable any longer. I still sell a lot of joints and butt plates and ferrules, but since I came up with the bleached camel bone slabs I have seen a lot of positive feedback from the camel bone for inlays. It is much cheaper, has nice creamy white color and other than not having as nice of a grain pattern most can't tell the difference between it and elephant once in the cue. So once the ivory get's harder to get I plan to use camel bone for inlays. I also use it for cues going over seas.Rackin_Zack said:
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
Thanks
Thank you to everyone who responded! I figured it was something like this but I didn't know for sure. How can one prove that the ivory stockpile they have is all pre-ban? When did the ban go into effect? Thanks again for your info.
Thank you to everyone who responded! I figured it was something like this but I didn't know for sure. How can one prove that the ivory stockpile they have is all pre-ban? When did the ban go into effect? Thanks again for your info.
The ban went into effect in 1989. Many tusks have numbers on them and those numbers are registered and can be looked up by Fish and Game people if they suspect it is illegal ivory. But usually you take someones word that they or a relative shot the elephant in such and such a year in such and such a place. Ivory is not expensive enough here to be much of a smugglers item at this time. The larger tusks would be pretty hard to hide in your luggage. Do we ask these same questions about jewels, stones, leather, wood or other parts in the cues? African poachers have given Ivory here a bad reputation, but the facts are we have so many tusks from safaris that can be bought, that we are not willing to pay the price per pound that some in the orient are who carve on it as part of a religious practice. Would you risk prison trying to smuggle Ivory here for maybe $100 per pound, when you could get a few hundred per pound where the authorities look the other way in Asia? That is why fish and game pretty much treat all elephant ivory as legal unless it can be proved otherwise.Rackin_Zack said:
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
Chris, will you have any of these camel bones in Valley Forge, I'd really like to take a look at it.
Thank you.
Thierry Layani
Thank you.
Thierry Layani
Theiry, send me your address, I'll send you one, I haven't tried it yet. But I do look at it often.Thierry Layani said:
cueman said:
I also work with guitars, building and repairing, which also have traditionally used ivory in the nut and saddles. Do you find the hardness of the camel bone to be more, less or the same as most elephant ivory you have worked with?
Thanks
Tim
i remember reading somewhere that warthog ivory is used sometimes in ivory applications, supposedly it doesnt turn yellow like elephant. I wonder if any of that is in use
A little less hard than the elephant and a little more brittle. Not sure how it would work for the nuts but it is great for inlays. I do have some guitar makers that buy the buffalo horn to make nuts out of. But it is black.olgoat said:
Chris
www.cuesmith.com
www.internationalcuemakers.com