Ivory joint questions

twal

twal

"W"
Silver Member
I have never shot with an ivory joint.
I am curious as compared to a SS joint how does it affect it?
Or maybe does it affect it at all?

I know the down side is that Ivory in time can crack and just is not as durable as SS.

Compared to SS does it soften feel or make it crisper?
 
Depends on how much wood and ivory interaction is involved. It's certainly a more compliant material than steel but the joint construction alone can easily have more impact on the union.

In all cases though, the joint as a whole has a pretty small impact overall IMO. The more noticable factor to me is how different weight/mass of a joint affects the 'feel' of a cue.
 
Thumbs up for Ivory joint.

An Ivory joint would be the only thing that could tempt me to buy another cue. I have been shooting with a late 1980's Joss with ivory ferule since, well the late '80's. I got to hit some balls with a Joss West with ivory joint and ferule once. I loved it, but could not afford the price tag.

The way I perceived the difference was, stainless seems cold and hard, ivory seemed more alive. This could possibly have been due to the sound of the hit. I definitly liked the way it played though.
 
Generally, I think ivory is a softer hit, but it also depends on the highly individual piece of ivory and where it is from. Some are harder then others. Softer and more uniform ivory along with good construction are very nice playing joints. Lately, I prefer piloted ivory, but solid ivory is nice as well if you like a softer feel.
 
This might come across dumb, but I could be misunderstanding the exact question. Apologies if so. :)


I have shot with many cues, and own a few very different examples. Honestly the ivory joint (I own two cues like that) does not make much differenc e in feel that I have observed....what DOES make a big difference is the shaft's threading material for the pin. If the receptacle is wood, it will hit more softly and 'feel' much More alive. If it is metal it will feel much stiffer all around and more 'dead'. Sorry for using adjectives like dead/alive I can't think of better words to use for what I am trying to express. :)

Just my observations.
 
Ivory has a soft alive but kind of hard dead feel where as stainless steel has a hard dead but kind of soft alive feel.

At least that is the way i interpret it.
SLIM
 
Personally, I prefer a joint that allows wood-to-wood contact (sleeved). For me, I can "feel" how the cue responds when following through the cueball when there is wood-to-wood contact between the shaft and the joint moreso than when there is a piloted joint with a metal insert where the pin screws into.

For some reason, I just can't get used to the feel of a SS/Nickel joint...unless the joint is sleeved, which allows for wood from the shaft to contact the wood of the butt.

My current player has an ivory-sleeved joint, and quite honestly has one of the best hits I've experienced in a cue. I've played with a few cues having full-faced ivory joints, and the hit (to me) was very similar to a metal jointed cue...very crisp, sharp hit, but very little feel as far as "touch" goes. Hard to describe really.

Anyways, since my first "real" cue, a McDermott, I've preferred a wood-to-wood joint (sleeved) over all others. Provides a more "organic" hit.
 
I personally feel an ivory joint has a much "softer" hit. I used a S.S. phillipi for quite a while (purdman.....where are you....I'd like to track that cue down) and i changed over to an ivory joint.

The SS doesn't seem to "give" as much as the ivory does. Its hard to describe, but I feel more comfortable "popping" balls in with the SS where the ivory just doesn't give that same crisp, firm, stiff, solid hit when you tend to pop or firmly hit balls.
 
ivory joint

Just Info.

X amount of ivory joints crack................

Not sure of exact percent of ivory joints that do crack but I know it is a risk!

The real test is to blind fold yourself and see if you can tell the difference between ivory joint and a wood to wood. or SS.

Some Ivory joints are not solid ivory , it is a ivory sleeve over phenolic or wood or SS. < Not capped >

Same as in the ivory ferrules , capped or uncapped.

With all the different ways of doing ivory joints and ferrules , not including
all the different styles of shafts and tips plus pin size and material like g10,
Who can really say?

It is always a ( personal opinion ).

Best regards

MMike
 
As touched on above, different joint materials give a cue a different feel. But, you have to take into account everything:
1. Tip
2. Ferrule
3. Shaft construction
4. Shaft taper
5. Joint pin
6. Joint material
7. Butt construction
8. Materials used in butt construction
... And probably a dozen other things!

So, don't compare a Schon to a Meucci and assume the difference in feel is the SS joint collar on the Schon.
 
twal said:
I have never shot with an ivory joint.
I am curious as compared to a SS joint how does it affect it?
Or maybe does it affect it at all?

I know the down side is that Ivory in time can crack and just is not as durable as SS.

Compared to SS does it soften feel or make it crisper?
Click to expand...


I play with two ivory jointed Ginas and before that played with a long string of SS and implex jointed cues. To be honest I do not believe the joint changes the hit of a cue. It's really about the look and mystique of an ivory joint. And if it was properly machined by the cue-maker (and cared for by the owner) it will last longer than the pool player playing with it. If an ivory joint changes anything it may be the balance of the cue compared to one with a piece of steel at the joint.

Lou Figueroa
 
lfigueroa said:
I play with two ivory jointed Ginas and before that played with a long string of SS and implex jointed cues. To be honest I do not believe the joint changes the hit of a cue. It's really about the look and mystique of an ivory joint. And if it was properly machined by the cue-maker (and cared for by the owner) it will last longer than the pool player playing with it. If an ivory joint changes anything it may be the balance of the cue compared to one with a piece of steel at the joint.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

i think dan janes of joss cues proved even the pros couldnt tell the difference in type of joint when tested blind
i agree
the panache of an ivory joint gives you a mental edge:wink:
 
lfigueroa said:
I play with two ivory jointed Ginas and before that played with a long string of SS and implex jointed cues. To be honest I do not believe the joint changes the hit of a cue. It's really about the look and mystique of an ivory joint. And if it was properly machined by the cue-maker (and cared for by the owner) it will last longer than the pool player playing with it. If an ivory joint changes anything it may be the balance of the cue compared to one with a piece of steel at the joint.

Lou Figueroa
Click to expand...

i think dan janes of joss cues proved even the pros couldnt tell the difference in type of joint when tested blind
i agree
the panache of an ivory joint gives you a mental edge:wink:
 
I tried a ivory joint before I had my cue made and found that i didn't like the softer feel of that type of joint. I much prefer that feel od a wood to wood joint.---Smitty
 
Ivory joints will crack

I ordered a JOSS West cue in 1972 with his old style Ivory Joint.
It had Ivory inlays with 2 shafts Ivory ferrules $180.00.

I sent the first two cues back because Bill sent them with Stainless Steel joints.
He said Barney, Ivory will crack and you will blame me.

Well two years ago I came home one hot summer day and two of my Ivory jointed cues had cracked.
The Joss was one of them, no I don't blame you Bill.

I like the softer hit.
I can masse better with it.
 

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vapoolplayer said:
I personally feel an ivory joint has a much "softer" hit. I used a S.S. phillipi for quite a while (purdman.....where are you....I'd like to track that cue down) and i changed over to an ivory joint.

The SS doesn't seem to "give" as much as the ivory does. Its hard to describe, but I feel more comfortable "popping" balls in with the SS where the ivory just doesn't give that same crisp, firm, stiff, solid hit when you tend to pop or firmly hit balls.
Click to expand...

Isn't that the way it always is. You have to give something to get something.

I would bet that some time in the future we will be changing cues for different shots.

How long ago was the jump cue 'invented' & when did everyone start using break cues?

I know there are times when I would prefer to have one of my wood to wood Sneaky Petes over my SS joint & visa versa.

Sorry for thr slight oof topic.
 
Generally speaking, ivory = softer, crisper and stainless = harder, deader. This is quite a generalization, as there are many other factors.
 
jschelin99 said:
As touched on above, different joint materials give a cue a different feel. But, you have to take into account everything:
1. Tip
2. Ferrule
3. Shaft construction
4. Shaft taper
5. Joint pin
6. Joint material
7. Butt construction
8. Materials used in butt construction
... And probably a dozen other things!

So, don't compare a Schon to a Meucci and assume the difference in feel is the SS joint collar on the Schon.
Click to expand...

Not only is this correct but it is also listed in order of impact, in my opinion. An ivory joint may feel a bit softer if everything else is kept the same but I doubt you could tell the difference between an ivory joint with a hard tip against a SS joint with a soft tip. If you want the absolute softest feel, I would say go with soft tips and ivory joints and ferrules, but there is a point where the cue begins to feel "dead".
 
I have 2 cues with an ivory joint. A 1974 Joss made by Danny Janes and Tim Scruggs in the old garage shop, and a 2007 custom Bob Frey made for me by....You guessed it...Bob Frey. When I talked to Danny about making me an ivory joint cue, I said I wanted ro be able to break with it. Danny told me to bring the cue into the pool room, take it out of the case ( fellini of course ) and let it get to room temperature. After that, break all you want with it...and I did. He said if I did that and it broke, he would replace it for free! It still has the original joint and all 9 shafts have the original ferrules also. My Bob Frey also has the original joint and ivory ferrules. Take care of your ivory and it will last a lifetime.
As to the hit, the two cues play completely different, as I wanted them too. The Joss has a lot of power in the 19 1/2 oz cue, which was needed to play on wool cloth and 70's pool balls. The 18 1/2 oz Frey was designed for a stiffer hit for the fast cloth and lively balls of today. As to hit, my Bob Frey sneaky hits and plays almost identically to the Frey custom ivory joint cue....as It was designed.
You have to hit balls with a cue to know how it plays. There is no other way to find what you like.
Good luck
 
i have a 2004 mottey with an ivory joint... bought it new in 2004.. not one issue with the ivory joint... if your letting your cues get too hot or too cold.. you should worry about alot more then the joint..

chris
 
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