Ivory sales....

Bavafongoul said:
200 grams.........28.3495 grms = 1 Ounce.......7.0548 ounces.......maximum allowable under the Feds.
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All of my cues fall under that. The worry is having some government dummy that decides there is only one way to find out and that is by chopping up the cue and weighing the inlays. I know it's far fetched, but they know there isn't anything I can do about it
 
I believe there could be potential problems for folks here advertising cues with ivory in them. I also believe there could be problems for AZ for allowing said proffers to be advertised here. Today I was made aware of someone on eBay getting bopped.

Depending on how aggressive the government wants to get it would fall under the category of aiding and abetting.

I sent a PM to Mike with a pertinent link a couple of days ago.

Lou Figueroa
 
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Outlander said:
As someone in the market for a serious high-end cue I have decided anything with ivory is no longer an option. Too much potential for a major hassle, especially with all the traveling I do.
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Ya know one thing no one has really brought up : so let's say you buy your high end cue absent of any ivory - well with how stupid everyone is getting with this ivory bs what's to stop them from drilling into your nice expensive cue that has " white " in it to verify it is not in fact ivory? You won't be in any trouble but your nice cue is still F'd up and from what I've read on here they have no liability whatsoever for the testing procedures they do whenever they feel like doing so.
 
BmoreMoney said:
Ya know one thing no one has really brought up : so let's say you buy your high end cue absent of any ivory - well with how stupid everyone is getting with this ivory bs what's to stop them from drilling into your nice expensive cue that has " white " in it to verify it is not in fact ivory? You won't be in any trouble but your nice cue is still F'd up and from what I've read on here they have no liability whatsoever for the testing procedures they do whenever they feel like doing so.
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One test I've heard mentioned involved inserting a red hot piece of wire to see how the white stuff burned. Very Salem like.

Lou Figueroa
 
A cue maker told me just yesterday that he once had a cue held because the holly in the cue appeared as ivory to customs. It was eventually released but the point is I'd be very careful of shipping a cue that you feel is under the maximum allowed weight. Just how would you prove that?

That also goes for the faux ivory products we are now seeing and hearing about. Why would anyone want to test customs with something that closely looks like ivory?

I also agree with Lou. While not likely, just the same, advertising a full ivory handle cue on AZ might not be too smart.

Paul
 
lfigueroa said:
I believe there could be potential problems for folks here advertising cues with ivory in them. I also believe there could be problems for AZ for allowing said proffers to be advertised here.
Lou Figueroa
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Why would that be? I can legally sell my ivory cues as long as I stay within the new laws. Lets not make it even worse by extending the restrictions further than the feds and states already have.
 
CJH said:
Why would that be? I can legally sell my ivory cues as long as I stay within the new laws. Lets not make it even worse by extending the restrictions further than the feds and states already have.
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Perhaps you'll be okay. However, I really doubt the majority of sellers will be able to meet one of the most important requirements. That will be providing documentation that proves without a doubt that the ivory in your cue was imported before January 18, 1990. Just having less than the allowed weight isn't enough. At least that is how I read it.

Paul
 
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lfigueroa said:
I believe there could be potential problems for folks here advertising cues with ivory in them. I also believe there could be problems for AZ for allowing said proffers to be advertised here. Today I was made aware of someone on eBay getting bopped.

Depending on how aggressive the government wants to get it would fall under the category of aiding and abetting.

I sent a PM to Mike with a pertinent link a couple of days ago.

Lou Figueroa
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Lou, ebay hasnt allowed the sale of ivory for at least 8 years. The cue im actually trying to get now that i sold in 2007 was removed from ebay listings back then because i had mentioned ivory in the description.

Im going to be extremely caustious when buying and/or selling, but i want a few more cues in my collection, & they will have to have ivory joint & ferrules. I hope to not have to sell any cues besides the 3 im selling now.
 
Walkermine said:
Perhaps you'll be okay. However, I really doubt the majority of sellers will be able to meet one of the most important requirements. That will be providing documentation that proves without a doubt that the ivory in your cue was imported before January 18, 1990. Just having less than the allowed weight isn't enough. At least that is how I read it.

Paul
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I dont disagree but I DO HAVE that documentation on two of my high end cues (both from the same maker) and will try and get the docs for more of my cues. This one cue maker surprised me when I asked him if he could document all of his ivory. He said "right to the stick". These guys may keep better records than most would think. Especially for ivory.

I don't think it is helpful for regular citizens to try and bolster or help enforce the laws on their own. I say stay the heck out of it and mind your own business. If I want to sell my ivory cuesI'll handle it as I see fit and I'll have my stuff in order. I don't need help and I sure don't need some jerk making it even harder than it already is.
 
CJH said:
Why would that be? I can legally sell my ivory cues as long as I stay within the new laws. Lets not make it even worse by extending the restrictions further than the feds and states already have.
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I was thinking about issues related to inter-state trafficking.

But doesn't it all boils down to how gonzo the government wants to get in terms of enforcement? Right now this is the F&WL's issue de jour and they may just be happy with the Ginacue case or they may go ape shee-at and go after guys on forums and web sites. No one knows.

Maybe there will suddenly be a huge jump in cue case prices. You buy a Justis, or Whitten case, (or even a JB :-) and it comes with a free pool cue inside.

Lou Figueroa
 
gregnice37 said:
Lou, ebay hasnt allowed the sale of ivory for at least 8 years. The cue im actually trying to get now that i sold in 2007 was removed from ebay listings back then because i had mentioned ivory in the description.

Im going to be extremely caustious when buying and/or selling, but i want a few more cues in my collection, & they will have to have ivory joint & ferrules. I hope to not have to sell any cues besides the 3 im selling now.
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Actually it wasn't a pool cue that was involved in the eBay case I heard about. Just some ivory items.

Lou Figueroa
 
My guess is that older ivory cues will go up in value. It's still easy enough to carry cues with you when you drive to a major tournament, then deal them there. If they meet the requirements of having under 7.04 oz of ivory, and they are older than 1990, you might find that they begin getting a premium in the near future.

Reading this thread, I've decided to hold on to mine for a while. Thanks for the good discussion.
 
runscott said:
My guess is that older ivory cues will go up in value. It's still easy enough to carry cues with you when you drive to a major tournament, then deal them there. If they meet the requirements of having under 7.04 oz of ivory, and they are older than 1990, you might find that they begin getting a premium in the near future.

Reading this thread, I've decided to hold on to mine for a while. Thanks for the good discussion.
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You are confusing scarcity and demand. Price goes up when there's a high demand and low availability. Price goes down when there's a low demand and high availability. If you cannot trade something, then demand will be low, because you can resell it, then the price will go down.

some very big owners are starting to sell their big cue. because later, when they can't sell, they will have to keep lowering their price to get a sale.
 
I have been very careful to assemble my documentation and in fact, sent a copy to the Head of Enforcement at CA Fish & Wildlife. I subsequently followed up with his assistant to confirm the receipt of the material which included cue photos, sales receipts, email communications, original shipping labels, purchase invoices with representations by the cue-maker as to the legality of the ivory used. I also included a copy of my homeowner's insurance declaration page which specifically recites acquisition date and estimated replacement values. CA Fish & Wildlife told me my pool cues were all legal.& responded back that my documentation was more than sufficient to substantiate the legal ownership of my pool cues.....it's a pain in the ass but I have too much invested in my collection to become careless or lackadaisical about my pool cues.........I do intend to add a Joel Hercek flat ivory joint cue as soon as I can locate the right one......searching for a cue is still legal even in CA, just can't execute the action while within the state.
 
Bavafongoul said:
I have been very careful to assemble my documentation and in fact, sent a copy to the Head of Enforcement at CA Fish & Wildlife. I subsequently followed up with his assistant to confirm the receipt of the material which included cue photos, sales receipts, email communications, original shipping labels, purchase invoices with representations by the cue-maker as to the legality of the ivory used. I also included a copy of my homeowner's insurance declaration page which specifically recites acquisition date and estimated replacement values. CA Fish & Wildlife told me my pool cues were all legal.& responded back that my documentation was more than sufficient to substantiate the legal ownership of my pool cues.....it's a pain in the ass but I have too much invested in my collection to become careless or lackadaisical about my pool cues.........I do intend to add a Joel Hercek flat ivory joint cue as soon as I can locate the right one......searching for a cue is still legal even in CA, just can't execute the action while within the state.
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You vote for these fools and see what you get.
 
CJH said:
Why would that be? I can legally sell my ivory cues as long as I stay within the new laws. Lets not make it even worse by extending the restrictions further than the feds and states already have.
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How can you prove the ivory is legal? There is a catch 22 here for buyers and sellers. Prior to this Executive order, any cue you purchased did not have a certificate saying the ivory was legal. For the cuemaker-How do I prove that the ivory purchased was legal ivory?

It is a hell of a mess but Mr. Obama does not care who loses money. He is a Liberal.
 
rhinobywilhite said:
How can you prove the ivory is legal? There is a catch 22 here for buyers and sellers. Prior to this Executive order, any cue you purchased did not have a certificate saying the ivory was legal. For the cuemaker-How do I prove that the ivory purchased was legal ivory?

It is a hell of a mess but Mr. Obama does not care who loses money. He is a Liberal.
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As a Canadian, I am watching the Presidential race in the US, and I wonder how the hell Trump can possibly have over 40% of the popular vote, when the man is a raving lunatic. Now I understand where his support comes from.

Obama is perhaps the greatest president to advance the view of the USA in the world's eyes, and he brought you out of what could have been the next Great Depression. But.....that liberal commie bastard took away your ivory. I say he should have been impeached.

Enjoy Trump as your next and last president.
 
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