Jimmy Moore ball counting trick

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FarmerTed111

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Has anybody seen this on those old matches they sometimes show on ESPN classic? At the end of one of the episodes each of players shows some trick shots. Most of the shots are pretty standard, but Jimmy Moore does one that is pretty orginial. In fact, during the video Allen Hopkins said he had never seen it before.

Anyways, this is what happens for those that haven't seen it: Mr. Moore goes to the foot of table and gathers up all of the balls. He then grabs say 8 balls--4 in each hand-- while not looking at the balls. Then he slowly rolls the balls all at once towards the head rail. Before the balls touch the head rail he adds the total numerical value of all the balls.

It's not a trick shot by the standard definition but I do wonder if there is a trick to it, despite Jimmy Moore's insistence that there is no trick.

So, has anybody here seen anybody else do this or have any history of this stunt?
 
I've heard of this before! It's a lot harder than you may think if you try it, but if you can associate color combinations with totals, so you only have to deal with four pairs instead of 8 numbers, it gets easier.
 
I remember seeing Jimmy do this. I never figured out how he did it, and never saw anyone else do it either.
 
If you play enough rotation you'll probably be able to do that. Rotation used to be the main game in a lot of old pool rooms, especially those charging per rack.
 
BWTadpole said:
I've heard of this before! It's a lot harder than you may think if you try it
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I doubt it's harder than I think, beacuse I think it looks pretty hard. Maybe I just really suck at math.

So there isn't an easier way to do it than color association? Because that sounds pretty hard, too.
 
FarmerTed111 said:
Did you get the sense that there was a "trick" to it, or was it legitimate mad adding skills?
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I think he just had a unique ability to spatially observe the balls and instantly know the math. He would grab them out of a ball box and do it, so there was no way for him to know in advance what balls he had in his hands.

Like I said, no one else ever did this trick. If some people think it's not so hard, then let them try it. They grow up on Rotation in the Philippines and I'm betting that not one player over there can match this feat of Jimmy's.

Certain pool players develop special skills, like Tommy Kennedy juggling the balls (although Danny D. can do a reasonable facsimile), Don Willis shooting in one wing shot after another (even making them between two balls), Mike Massey and his finger pool, Rich Geiler kicking (yes with his foot) the cue ball three rails and making ball after ball, and the blow pool guy whose name I don't remember (Steve something). Other guys (Vernon Elliott, Jersey Red, Denny Searcy) had shots they could make nearly every time and no one else could make in ten to twenty tries.
 
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jay helfert said:
I think he just had a unique ability to spatially observe the balls and instantly know the math. He would grab them out of a ball box and do it, so there was no way for him to know in advance what balls he had in his hands.

Like I said, no one else ever did this trick. If some people think it's not so hard, then let them try it. They grow up on Rotation in the Philippines and I'm betting that not one player over there can match this feat of Jimmy's.

Certain pool players develop special skills, like Tommy Kennedy juggling the balls (although Danny D. can do a reasonable facsimile), Don Willis shooting in one wing shot after another (even making them between two balls), Mike Massey and his finger pool, Rich Geiler kicking (yes with his foot) the cue ball three rails and making ball after ball, and the blow pool guy whose name I don't remember. Other guys (Vernon Elliott, Jersey Red, Denny Searcy) had shots they could make nearly every time and no one else could make in ten to twenty tries.
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That's awesome that he really did it. My intial skepticism comes from hanging out with a lot of magicians and almost always when they say there is no trick involved, there always is. Take for instance the magic square: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeaTzZO8jTU
 
if he can look at the remaining 7 balls then he can add those and subtract it from 120 which is the total of all the balls on the table.
 
JB Cases said:
if he can look at the remaining 7 balls then he can add those and subtract it from 120 which is the total of all the balls on the table.
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You don't understand John. He grabs four balls in each hand and rolls them down table at medium speed (or faster). The other balls are off the table and out of sight. He has maybe a second or two to give us a count. Try it sometime. Try it with four balls. Not so easy!
 
jay helfert said:
You don't understand John. He grabs four balls in each hand and rolls them down table at medium speed (or faster). The other balls are off the table and out of sight. He has maybe a second or two to give us a count. Try it sometime. Try it with four balls. Not so easy!
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I got it. I couldn't do it even if I could look at the balls remaining.

Thanks.
 
Lots and lots of flash cards as a child!!! What trick could there really be unless he has taken the time to remember what color combos add up to and thats what hes recognizing.
 
Reminds me of some of the Domino players!

When I was younger I was married to a Cuban girl and spent many a weekends at family parties. There were a couple of older Cuban guys who could count the total of your points and your partners points in milliseconds! It was almost as if they new exactly what each of you were holding. I am not talking about one or two bones either. Sometimes you could have easily 20 bones or more between you and they would have a total before you would even get started counting! :D
 
The only trick I can imagine that would be helpful is if he finds a way to peek at the balls in his hands "early" (significantly before rolling them), giving him more time. Adding 8 smallish numbers is not so tough, but doing it in under 2 seconds is very tough. Time is everything, and if he somehow manages to see all the balls in his hands before the audience thinks he has, and does the adding while continuing to banter, then he could buy himself a lot of extra time.

-Andrew
 
Andrew Manning said:
The only trick I can imagine that would be helpful is if he finds a way to peek at the balls in his hands "early" (significantly before rolling them), giving him more time. Adding 8 smallish numbers is not so tough, but doing it in under 2 seconds is very tough. Time is everything, and if he somehow manages to see all the balls in his hands before the audience thinks he has, and does the adding while continuing to banter, then he could buy himself a lot of extra time.

-Andrew
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That's not how Jimmy did it Andrew. He would reach into the ball box without looking, grab four balls in each hand and roll them onto the table. He saw the balls as they were rolling. And in a second or two he said a total. Always right too!
 
So what's the trick? Does anyone know how it's done? Either one, Jimmy Moore or Harry Lorayne?
 
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