Joe Davis

pt109

pt109

Pagulayan chalk and clothing
Silver Member
Today is the birth date of the great Joe Davis...who took an obscure game
known as a 'potting picnic' and nurtured it into a game that produces the
most millionaires in billiards.

Wouldn't it be nice if Joe was honored by starting the World Professional
Snooker Championship on his birthday?.......
...instead of on Adolf Hitler's.
 
Most of what I know about how to play and understand this game comes through the power of the teaching of the great Joe Davis although I never knew who he was until long after his passing. I learned the game in what is often considered its heyday in the early and mid-80s, mainly through the regular television coverage of the sport in England at the time. My education is from Joe directly through his still very relevant instructional books or indirectly through information gleaned from the professionals of the time who virtually to a man were followers of the Joe Davis method as the standard model. Joe's books, my snooker "bibles", are among my most treasured of possessions. Thanks for calling our attention to the memory of this legend.
 
acesinc1999 said:
Most of what I know about how to play and understand this game comes through the power of the teaching of the great Joe Davis although I never knew who he was until long after his passing. I learned the game in what is often considered its heyday in the early and mid-80s, mainly through the regular television coverage of the sport in England at the time. My education is from Joe directly through his still very relevant instructional books or indirectly through information gleaned from the professionals of the time who virtually to a man were followers of the Joe Davis method as the standard model. Joe's books, my snooker "bibles", are among my most treasured of possessions. Thanks for calling our attention to the memory of this legend.
Click to expand...

Complete Snooker was the only billiard book I owned for the first ten years
I played any form of billiards....I didn't agree with everything, but Joe made
me think.
I met him a year before he died...I was impressed and he put me at ease very
graciously.
I have a painting of Joe I look at every day....I still prefer his stance over the
modern squared off style.
 
Wow! You can color me impressed. I had never even heard of the game of snooker, let alone the name of Joe Davis until after he was gone so I could never be so fortunate as to shake his hand. However, the truth is, when I read his books, I LITERALLY feel like he is in the room there with me, having a conversation with me, answering my questions, correcting my flaws as I try to emulate his proper form. The way that I feel reading the words that he wrote over a half century ago now is as you said, "he put me at ease very graciously".

If you can, I would greatly appreciate a post of a picture of the painting (isn't it odd how we converse today in the twenty first century? Here you said you "met the man the year before he died", and here I am asking you to "post a picture of the painting"....just has a little different feel to it. :smile:) Is it your own artistic work? Any history to share about this painting?
 
"If I have seen further it is (only) by standing on the shoulders of giants." - Sir Isaac Newton

There are those who argue that, while Joe Davis was undoubtedly the best of his time, he could not hold a candle to the talents of the modern generation of players and he could not be competing at the top tier level today. I would submit that Joe Davis is the giant upon whose shoulders most of the great modern players stand (certainly at least the ones for whom I have the most respect). Quite the contrary, without Joe Davis, a "top tier level" of snooker likely would not even exist today. As pt109 said in his first post, Joe Davis "nurtured" this sport to ultimately make it what it is today.

His is a case as so often happens in history of the right personality in the right place at the right time taking the right action to create the greatest benefit.
 
acesinc1999 said:
If you can, I would greatly appreciate a post of a picture of the painting (isn't it odd how we converse today in the twenty first century? Here you said you "met the man the year before he died", and here I am asking you to "post a picture of the painting"....just has a little different feel to it. :smile:) Is it your own artistic work? Any history to share about this painting?
Click to expand...

To continue the oddness of the 21st century....this is a repro found in an art shop.
Will post a picture probably tomorrow...one of the neighbor's kids will steer
me through this process...you know, the kids that call you a 'one-dee-ten tee',:o
As a picture of a repro of a painting, you may still like it.
 
acesinc1999 said:
If you can, I would greatly appreciate a post of a picture of the painting (isn't it odd how we converse today in the twenty first century? Here you said you "met the man the year before he died", and here I am asking you to "post a picture of the painting"....just has a little different feel to it. :smile:) Is it your own artistic work? Any history to share about this painting?
Click to expand...

Here is Joe....I still love his stance...like Raymond Ceulemans' style....
...it could handle any billiard game.

0a4d2154-325f-48f9-84b1-2028dc782a12_zps0ac25b02.jpg
 
Very nice. Looks like a classy room. His form, as he would like to say, is the picture of "compactness", unlike that depicted in the "Dogs Playing Pool" print that I have hanging in my room. Joe developed the concept of the "snooker stroke" as being distinct from the (English) billiards stroke. He advocated the stun shot as the strongest weapon in the snooker player's arsenal (he even appears to be playing this stroke as a stun, even over such a distance--I believe it is a red in the top left, stunning (but with some run through) to leave below blue, though it is tough to say for certain from this angle and distance). I see a lot of guys in my usual group that tend to "roll" the balls rather than stunning thinking that they can more accurately control position that way, but then of course so often leaving the white in a more difficult cueing position too close to a cushion.

Nice to have a tuxedoed waiter at your service...I'll have the Guiness please. Although I will say, I would have to have a word with the gentleman whose cigarette is dangling much too near the equipment.

Thank you for posting.
 
Last edited:
Hi PT, good thread. Joe (The Sultan of Snooker) Davis would have been a champion, even today. I thought this would bring back some memories.
Take Care,
Mike
 
Watching the First TV Century Break video... the balls looked much bigger, the pockets might have been a bit more forgiving, and the table doesn't look like it occupies as much acreage. Where was that video shot? Is it just the poor video quality fooling me?

Not meant to take even a tiny thing away from Joe Davis, just curious about the equipment.
 
Underclocked said:
Watching the First TV Century Break video... the balls looked much bigger, the pockets might have been a bit more forgiving, and the table doesn't look like it occupies as much acreage. Where was that video shot? Is it just the poor video quality fooling me?

Not meant to take even a tiny thing away from Joe Davis, just curious about the equipment.
Click to expand...

I would have to think the table was regulation..Joe would have insisted on it.

Corner pockets would be 3.5 inches at the fall...but new cloth makes the pockets
easier.
The balls would have been Crystalate...they were very dead and hard to draw...
...like the old bonzoline balls on this continent.
The table would be 6x12 and the cloth probably 40 ounces...very hard to
power the balls.

The century that you had was probably more difficult.
 
Underclocked said:
Watching the First TV Century Break video... the balls looked much bigger, the pockets might have been a bit more forgiving, and the table doesn't look like it occupies as much acreage. Where was that video shot? Is it just the poor video quality fooling me?

Not meant to take even a tiny thing away from Joe Davis, just curious about the equipment.
Click to expand...

The video is from 1962 (not really all that long ago in my eyes) and by that time, dimensions had long been established with perhaps just a few minor tweaks here and there. Currently, ball diameter is specified as being metric, 52.5 mm which is indistinguishable by eye or hand from the long historical spec of 2-1/16" which is surely what is shown in the video. Table dimensions also have a very long history having been established from the much older game of English Billiards. (I will occasionally quip that "There is no such thing as a Snooker table....Snooker is a game played on an English Billiards table.") Personally, I have played snooker on a table originally built in 1872 by Thurston (obviously, reconditioned numerous times over), which actually pre-dates the accepted date of the "invention" of snooker in 1875. Dimensionally, still at modern specs, though of course the pockets can be set to whatever the fitter determines. Undoubtedly, the action with current equipment is more lively due to improvements in materials: steel back cushions; lighter, faster cloths; heated slates; etc. but I am certain that quite rapidly, Joe would feel very comfortable on modern equipment.

I think there is an optical illusion that might make us perceive greater differences than there actually are just due to the black and white image and the different camera angles than what we are used to seeing today.

For anyone who is a history buff and has time on their hands, you can download a Google book from 1896 which goes through a variety of aspects of the game and equipment of the time. It even gives you advice on such things as where to locate your sofa and fireplace when you build your house around your billiard parlor. :smile: Floor plans and everything.

http://google.com/books?id=LaI8AAAAYAAJ
http://www.google.com/books/downloa...ut=pdf&sig=ACfU3U09gS47SHHV9DuNIZCmvtGWtI2-qQ (direct link to .pdf download, you have to type in a code)

The information specifically regarding snooker at the time (1896, remember) begins on (original book) page 424 and I think that there is still relevant information to be had from it. Of interesting historical note, I believe at least, is the information about Black Pool on page 418 which is really the game from which Snooker evolved directly. Here the beginnings of standard snooker safety play and even the inkling of the concept of a "free ball" are emerging.
 
Last edited:
Joe Davis definitely had that "tweener" stance -- between that of a pool and a snooker player. It couldn't be classified as the "boxer" variant of snooker stance, either -- it was more "pool-ish" than the boxer stance.

I agree with you that he had that stance that accommodated all cue sports disciplines. Joe would be feared even today!

-Sean
 
Mike Porter said:
Hi PT, good thread. Joe (The Sultan of Snooker) Davis would have been a champion, even today. I thought this would bring back some memories.
Take Care,
Mike
Click to expand...

What a great picture, Mike...
..for those who don't know him, that is George Chenier standing, who died
undefeated as North American Snooker Champion.
 
A gift from a club member:

This is a personal memento, photo taken by the club member, Joe spectating at an amateur event in London, 1977.

I would have been 11 then. It would still be the better part of a decade before I ever even heard the word "snooker" said.

I remember when Elvis died in August that same year, '77. Joe passed about a year after this picture was taken. Great men both and I didn't even have a chance to know anything about them. I listen to Elvis a lot these days. And I sure wish there was more video of Joe to study.


Happy Birthday, Joe!
 

Attachments

  • 20140415_112434.jpg
    20140415_112434.jpg
    94.6 KB · Views: 784
Last edited:
acesinc1999 said:
A gift from a club member:

This is a personal memento, photo taken by the club member, Joe spectating at an amateur event in London, 1977.

I would have been 11 then. It would still be the better part of a decade before I ever even heard the word "snooker" said.

I remember when Elvis died in August that same year, '77. Joe passed about a year after this picture was taken. Great men both and I didn't even have a chance to know anything about them. I listen to Elvis a lot these days. And I sure wish there was more video of Joe to study.


Happy Birthday, Joe!
Click to expand...
What a coincidence...I met Joe for the first and only time in 1977.
He was very gracious to me.
Here's a video of Joe with a young Cliff Wilson, who came back to the
game after a 20 year lay-off, and made it to the top 16...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D4mxHNeLupg
 
That is the best video instruction of the stance that you like so much (with the added bonus of a thin Cliff Wilson). I have read and re-read Joe's books numerous times. I do like to mix the written instructional word along with some video so without a plethora of video selections from Joe, I turn to one of his many great direct students, Ray Reardon On Snooker on YouTube, particularly number 14 where he talks his way through a full clearance. I do like to think that Ray is practically channeling Joe as he verbally gives us his mindset as he considers each position he is faced with, especially as the later shots become more difficult. Easily forgotten by aspiring players is the absolute positivity necessary on the outcome of shots, even when they don't go quite as planned--Ray: "Could have done with a thicker contact probably, but....still a good shot." You will often see this same positivity in videos where Joe takes a fledgling player under his wing and the camera will specifically cut to a view of Joe nodding his head in approval of the student's efforts. You see it at the 45 second mark of your referenced video, but this is a common thread in about every Joe Davis video I have seen. All terribly staged by the director of course, but the point is very clear and true. If one lets negativity creep into the mindset, the break will undoubtedly be coming to an end soon.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top