Josey Shaft Standard Taper

K

kasparovII

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a question regarding the standard Josey shaft taper that Keith has adopted and, according to the Joseys, is in large part responsible for the distinctive Josey hit and typical Josey performance. When I spoke to Sherri today she describes the standard Josey taper as conical (European?) as opposed to the more cylindrical pro taper. Of course Keith is able to adjust this standard taper to resemble more of the typical professional tapers popular today, which are undoubtedly re-enforced by the laminated long pro taper shafts so many players use today. Now after playing with a Predator 314 (original) for a few years now, I too am comfortable with the 314 long pro taper. And using a rather tight, closed bridge this taper lends itself well to this style of play. So what I need to know from those currently playing with the standard Josey shaft taper is how difficult the transition was from a 314 type pro taper to the current standard conical Josey conventional shaft taper. The reason I simply don't specify a pro taper up front from Josey is the fact that Keith considers this taper to be a key component of the sweet Josey hit and their cues' tremendous overall performance. The last thing I want to do is compromise any of the performance that makes Josey cues so popular as a great player's cue. Sherri's suggested approach makes sense....that I order the standard conical taper and only after trying and not being able to comfortably play with their standard shaft taper, sending it back to Josey for a taper adjustment. The shaft I order will have a 12.75mm tip diameter. Finally, Josey offers a "Timeless Timber" old growth maple shaft as an option for a significant cost increase over the AAA grade hard rock maple used in Josey's standard shafts. The advantages of the Timeless Timber are minimal. I say this because typically an old growth maple shaft weighs more than a typical standard maple shaft and may also play a bit stiffer. Considering that Josey's standard shafts render a stiff hit to begin with and weigh between 3.8 to 4.2 oz, which is my ideal shaft "target weight", giving the cue an adequate amount of forward weighting for the balance I prefer. So I have currently eliminated this option. And as I think back on all the answers Sherri provided to a multiplicity of technical questions such as shaft weight, ring work, type of hit, etc., almost all the questions were answered with my growing confidence that I am making the correct decision in going with a Josey cue as my primary money player. There typicals are directly in line with my "ideal" specifications. And I don't believe in coincidence. To me these Josey cues and their various components are exactly what I was looking for in my primary playing cue.

In order to give as much information as I can to best answer my questions regarding the standard Josey shaft taper, my specifications for the cue run as follows:

*Basic cue model: # S-00F/E, Josey 4 point Cocobolo/BEM forearm Sneaky Pete to which I have added the joint collar/ butt cap and ring-work from the cue model # SW 01 slvr which is a white phenolic joint collar and butt cap with black / white and silver ring work. This ringwork substitution adds the perfect finishing personal touch to my cue and will make this cue unique even among other Josey cues.
*Handle:Cocobolo no wrap
* 58" cue / 29" shaft length
*19.5 oz. overall cue weight
* Shaft "target" weight 4 oz. (3.8 - 4.2 oz. is Josey standard)
* Standard shaft: AAA grade hard rock maple w/Josey standard conical taper
*12.75mm tip diameter
*Moori III medium cue tip
*Joint: radial pin w/ white phenolic collar w/ black, white and silver ring work
*Butt Cap: White phenolic w/ black, white and siver ring work

Well that's my specs. So can anyone shed some light on the shaft tapers and the transition from a long 314 type pro taper to the standard Josey taper??

Thanks in advance,
KasparovII
 
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I would definitely recommend going with Sherri's advice and let Keith do his standard taper. I have only owned a couple of cues that had me advancing immediately, and Keith's cue was one of them...stupidest thing I ever did was to sell it. You may find that it actually works out well for you...and if not, Keith will re-taper it for you, so there is really nothing to lose.

I personally believe that many, if not most, cue makers put a lot of time and effort into a shaft taper that works very well with their particular cue...when you begin to deviate from that formula, you lose the very reason that you persued a cue from that maker to begin with. JMHO.

Lisa
 
good advice and my thoughts exactly.
do you recall if your Josey had a similar conical taper? if so, how did you find the shaft from a performance point of view? and was it comfortable in your bridge during the stroke?

Thanks.
 
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Is it really a conical straight taper at 12,75mm? Wouldn't that be way stiff?. Maybe it is double conical in the sense that is not perfectly straight in the pro taper section (small growth) and then a steeper cone towards the butt end?

I do have a straight conical tapered shaft at 11,75mm (Dominiak) and it does not create any problems for a smooth stroke, even with a closed bridge (I alternate between open and closed usually) and my small hands. At 12,75mm I don't think it should be a problem either, really.

I am getting curious about Josey's shafts/ cue playability. :smile:
 
kasparov,
Go with the standard taper to start with and see how you like it. I will tell you though, if you are used to a 314 shaft, it will take some time to adjust to the higher deflection from the Josey shaft. I ended up sending my shaft back to Keith to turn down to 12.5mm and soften/lengthen the taper. The result was less deflection, but stiff a very stiff, crisp hit. I am currently using OB-2 shafts on my Josey, but don't have much problem switching back to my Josey shaft when the urge grabs me.

I like the specs you have chosen, I was thinking of ordering a second Josey SP with a white joint as well. It should look great. How long did Sherri say the wait would be?
 
Stick with the standard taper. Where are you located maybe someone has one you can try. You'll have 4 months to decide.
 
thanks to all for the shaft advice.
the current lead times from Josey is 3 to 4 months. judging from the rave reviews and the pics i've seen....definitely worth the wait.
 
Jingle, thanks for the feedback. and I have heard today through a pm that the standard taper is somewhat as you describe.....a more gradual taper from tip through the stroking area with a more typical (euro-style) taper toward the back-end of the shaft. It would seem that this approach gives Keith the type of hit/performance that is becoming a Josey "trademark". It's also good to know that I have some "wiggle room" to make the appropriate adjustment to get the taper to a point that's comfortable. I base this on the fact that you were able to have the shaft turned to a 12.5mm diameter and were able to soften the standard taper a bit and the cue still gave you a crisp hit with managable deflection. If you don't mind can you expound on the taper adjustments you and Josey worked out? Maybe I'll end up following your lead if I find a 12.75mm w/ standard taper not quite what I desire. I plan on discussing this further with Keith when I lock in my specs and place the order.
Again, I appreciate your input. It's very helpful.
 
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kasparovII said:
Jingle, thanks for the feedback. and I have heard today through a pm that the standard taper is somewhat as you describe.....a more gradual taper from tip through the stroking area with a more typical (euro-style) taper toward the back-end of the shaft. It would seem that this approach gives Keith the type of hit/performance that is becoming a Josey "trademark". It's also good to know that I have some "wiggle room" to make the appropriate adjustment to get the taper to a point that's comfortable. I base this on the fact that you were able to have the shaft turned to a 12.5mm diameter and were able to soften the standard taper a bit and the cue still gave you a crisp hit with managable deflection. If you don't mind can you expound on the taper adjustments you and Josey worked out? Maybe I'll end up following your lead if I find a 12.75mm w/ standard taper not quite what I desire. I plan on discussing this further with Keith when I lock in my specs and place the order.
Again, I appreciate your input. It's very helpful.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure measurement-wise what he did. I talked with him on the phone and explained that while he was turning down the shaft to 12.5mm (from 12.75) I wanted him to also lengthen the taper "just a little" so that it would reduce the stiffness a touch. He didn't make any drastic changes to it, just slight ones. You may very well like the standard taper, but you probably won't know for sure until you try it. One thing I'm sure you have already found out, Keith & Sherri are GREAT to work with so I'm sure you will be pleased in the end! :thumbup:
 
kasparovII said:
I have a question regarding the standard Josey shaft taper that Keith has adopted and, according to the Joseys, is in large part responsible for the distinctive Josey hit and typical Josey performance. When I spoke to Sherri today she describes the standard Josey taper as conical (European?) as opposed to the more cylindrical pro taper. Of course Keith is able to adjust this standard taper to resemble more of the typical professional tapers popular today, which are undoubtedly re-enforced by the laminated long pro taper shafts so many players use today. Now after playing with a Predator 314 (original) for a few years now, I too am comfortable with the 314 long pro taper. And using a rather tight, closed bridge this taper lends itself well to this style of play. So what I need to know from those currently playing with the standard Josey shaft taper is how difficult the transition was from a 314 type pro taper to the current standard conical Josey conventional shaft taper. The reason I simply don't specify a pro taper up front from Josey is the fact that Keith considers this taper to be a key component of the sweet Josey hit and their cues' tremendous overall performance. The last thing I want to do is compromise any of the performance that makes Josey cues so popular as a great player's cue. Sherri's suggested approach makes sense....that I order the standard conical taper and only after trying and not being able to comfortably play with their standard shaft taper, sending it back to Josey for a taper adjustment. The shaft I order will have a 12.75mm tip diameter. Finally, Josey offers a "Timeless Timber" old growth maple shaft as an option for a significant cost increase over the AAA grade hard rock maple used in Josey's standard shafts. The advantages of the Timeless Timber are minimal. I say this because typically an old growth maple shaft weighs more than a typical standard maple shaft and may also play a bit stiffer. Considering that Josey's standard shafts render a stiff hit to begin with and weigh between 3.8 to 4.2 oz, which is my ideal shaft "target weight", giving the cue an adequate amount of forward weighting for the balance I prefer. So I have currently eliminated this option. And as I think back on all the answers Sherri provided to a multiplicity of technical questions such as shaft weight, ring work, type of hit, etc., almost all the questions were answered with my growing confidence that I am making the correct decision in going with a Josey cue as my primary money player. There typicals are directly in line with my "ideal" specifications. And I don't believe in coincidence. To me these Josey cues and their various components are exactly what I was looking for in my primary playing cue.

In order to give as much information as I can to best answer my questions regarding the standard Josey shaft taper, my specifications for the cue run as follows:

*Basic cue model: # S-00F/E, Josey 4 point Cocobolo/BEM forearm Sneaky Pete to which I have added the joint collar/ butt cap and ring-work from the cue model # SW 01 slvr which is a white phenolic joint collar and butt cap with black / white and silver ring work. This ringwork substitution adds the perfect finishing personal touch to my cue and will make this cue unique even among other Josey cues.
*Handle:Cocobolo no wrap
* 58" cue / 29" shaft length
*19.5 oz. overall cue weight
* Shaft "target" weight 4 oz. (3.8 - 4.2 oz. is Josey standard)
* Standard shaft: AAA grade hard rock maple w/Josey standard conical taper
*12.75mm tip diameter
*Moori III medium cue tip
*Joint: radial pin w/ white phenolic collar w/ black, white and silver ring work
*Butt Cap: White phenolic w/ black, white and siver ring work

Well that's my specs. So can anyone shed some light on the shaft tapers and the transition from a long 314 type pro taper to the standard Josey taper??

Thanks in advance,
KasparovII
Click to expand...

just some info in response to some of the post above.......

though Keith's shaft work is well known for being some of the best and the wood he uses is very good hard rock maple, his standard shafts are NOT of the "AAA" grade variety for all of his cues as implied above....especially for cues from Keith's lower line such as his sneaky's .....that being said you can request "AAA" grade and other specifications such as grain tightness and such for any cue. ....for lower end cues there will be an additional cost for shafts using this high grade wood........the weight of most Josey shafts which may normally range between 3.8 and 4.3 oz. can vary above or below depending on other materials used to create the cue....this is one factor to accomplishing the overall desired weight and adjust forward balance of the finished cue....as stated above Josey shafts play a part in the hit of a cue but they are not "the" main factor in the cues playability and feel....the construction of the cue in it's entirety accomplish the signature "hit" of Keith's cues.....

if anyone has any questions regarding Josey Cues please call Keith and Sherri and they can answer any and all of your questions..... :smile:
 
Thanks for clearing up the AAA issue. I guess I should have stated that this will be my request from Josey at time of order. I just assumed that this would not be a problem and the upgrade request would not cost as much as the Timeless Timber option. Am I correct in this assumption? I guess my question to you is, since I've geard a lot of good things about Keith's shafts, is even requesting a AAA shaft something that really isn't necessary to insure the shaft I get is "primo"?

Thanks, in advance.
 
Greetings

My friend Jack Potter,a pretty good player,is the only guy I know with such detailed specs.Jack made the LIBRA CUES>
Well Jack is a pain in the backside as a customer,he always wants every cuemaker to make every new cue to his old specs.Guess what? He always ends up wanting it to play different.
The point I am making is this:if your present cue were exactly what you wanted you wouldn't be buying a new one.Therefore I recomend you buy the standard Josey,you will probably love it.Most people do. Order just 1 shaft,if you want to adjust at least try the cue and shaft that the man is famous for.

After years in this business I believe few (if any) know what makes the cue play good,keep looking and hope that when you find it that you will have the good sense to keep it

dean
 
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I hope that the Josey will be my last cue purchase for a long while. The Josey SP seems like it covers just about any aesthetic requirements that I have. What has driven me to the Josey is, frankly, all of the great feedback from this and other forums....I've never really heard a complaint, yet I've read so many raves that I've decided that it would be a safe purchase. I like a pretty stiff hit and the feel of a radial pin joint. So, if this turns out to be the "one" it'll remain in my case for the foreseeable future.
 
kasparovII said:
Thanks for clearing up the AAA issue. I guess I should have stated that this will be my request from Josey at time of order. I just assumed that this would not be a problem and the upgrade request would not cost as much as the Timeless Timber option. Am I correct in this assumption? I guess my question to you is, since I've geard a lot of good things about Keith's shafts, is even requesting a AAA shaft something that really isn't necessary to insure the shaft I get is "primo"?

Thanks, in advance.
Click to expand...

a "great" shaft will always demand a premium.....but in todays market a great shaft carries with it many characteristics other than the from of the wood....i think that "AAA" grade shafts, having many properties found in other shafts, definitely have that 'cosmetic' appeal added to the other physical properties you'd find in top quality shafts. that said, shafts can be darker in color and even have sugar marks in them and the shaft can still be considered a "primo" playing shaft..... Keith makes it a point to stock shaft wood that will perform to his standard regardless of any factors......also one other point is it's not always about the wood used, but how it's been handled and fashioned into it's final form............
 
thanks 'skins. that's the information i need. i'll go with a standard shaft...and trust in Josey to provide a good shaft that retains the SP's performance.
 
as the feedback comes in it sounds like the standard shafts that Keith uses in the SP's are plenty good. one less "upgarde" is fine by me. in the past, with even some very good production cues, i found that i had to reshaft more times than not in order to get the performance characteristics i was looking for.
years ago i ordered a premium Adams only to find that i needed to go to a shaft from their musashi line in order to get the hit i was looking for.
 
Mezz use to make cues for Adams and Helmsetter and many many others. Back in the day before they came out with Mezz. The 'Miki' portion of Miki-Mezz was contracted out for production. So worry not, they've been making cues forever. Google miki-mezz and do not click on .us for history.

Back on topic, Josey's are great cues. Made in NA and hits solid. A friend has one and she's a beaut.

xJ
 
I recently ordered a Josey shaft for my Joss (5/16x14 SS) and it arrived this week.

The order was an extra tight grain 12,75mm shaft with standard taper and ferrule and a sniper tip. The shaft fits my Joss butt as good or better than the original shaft (Keith didn't have my butt since it was very expensive to ship from Europe). The wood is amazing, nice tight grain and the hit is very firm / stiff.

To the original poster, the taper is NOT a straight conical taper nor a pro taper but rather a more complex curve that fits really comfortable even with a closed bridge and my small hands.

Playability-wise, it is rather strange at first because it is very stiff but provides lots of spin so you tend to overhit everything a little at first; transfers a lot of energy so you need less pace than what you think most of the time. I am getting used to it though. I also noticed that I can tell slight differences in cue ball weight better (like in this is too heavy because it tends to follow more) than with other shafts. Go figure! :confused:

Deflection-wise, it is on the low scale for a full maple shaft. I recommend his workmanship / customer care to everyone; nice work, nice guy.

I am still deciding on a Josey custom cue design, there are so many options... but I should settle soon ;)

Hope this helps.
 
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Josey Cue

I am also considering a Josey Cue. I was told that the Timeless Timber shaft and an Ebony butt are more dense woods so would hit more stiffly...does anyone have a history with this particular combination?

I currently play with a Adams Balabushka 5/16 piloted pin that is 12.50 pro-tapered. This cue is not stiff but I play okay with it. I also have a Greg Sirca custom cue with 3/8 pin. It is a more solid hit than the Adams.

I have no history with radial pin joints. Any feedback would be much appreciated. I just joined AZ Billiards...this is my first post. What an amazing site.
 
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