Joss Standard Shaft or Predator Z?

J

Jazztrumpet86

Registered
Hello,
I am investing in my first real cue (my current one still has screw in tips)

I know that I want a Joss Butt but I don't know if I want the standard shaft because I frequently miscue because I can't get enough spin on the cueball. I am told that the Z shaft makes it easier to spin the ball and reduces deflection.

I am also informed that the Z shaft might give my closed bridge trouble because of its taper and it is not durable at all.

I do want less deflection and perfectly capable of adjusting for more throw and less deflection.

What are everyone's opinions on my choice, I don't care if people start arguing and this turns into a 10 page thread, I just want as much information as possible so I can make an informed decision.

Thank you!
 
I would suggest you try the joss shaft. 13mm if you can get it, the 13.25 shafts don't seem to hit as well from Joss for some reason IMHO

13 is still pretty big, but I think Joss cues hit very nicely.
 
Jazztrumpet86 said:
(my current one still has screw in tips)
I frequently miscue
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Ding ding we have a winner! :)

I'd also say go with the Joss shaft and see how you get on with it, you can always get the Z shaft later on.
 
Jazztrumpet86 said:
Hello,
I am investing in my first real cue (my current one still has screw in tips)

I know that I want a Joss Butt but I don't know if I want the standard shaft because I frequently miscue because I can't get enough spin on the cueball. I am told that the Z shaft makes it easier to spin the ball and reduces deflection.

I am also informed that the Z shaft might give my closed bridge trouble because of its taper and it is not durable at all.

I do want less deflection and perfectly capable of adjusting for more throw and less deflection.

What are everyone's opinions on my choice, I don't care if people start arguing and this turns into a 10 page thread, I just want as much information as possible so I can make an informed decision.

Thank you!
Click to expand...


It very well could turn into a 10 page thread...but in the end who are you going to listen to and what are you going to base your decision on?

Those two shafts are like night and day. Sounds like you have either a shitty stroke or are trying to apply too much english to get spin and that's why you're miscuing.

It still boils down to TWO shafts and nothing else. So I'd say buy both. Nothing says you can only have one shaft. See which one works best and then sell the other. Otherwise, if you're broke, buy the Joss and learn how to use it. I think it'll serve you much better in the long run for feel, balance and a larger variety of shots. They really play good.
 
drivermaker said:
It very well could turn into a 10 page thread...but in the end who are you going to listen to and what are you going to base your decision on?

Those two shafts are like night and day. Sounds like you have either a shitty stroke or are trying to apply too much english to get spin and that's why you're miscuing.

It still boils down to TWO shafts and nothing else. So I'd say buy both. Nothing says you can only have one shaft. See which one works best and then sell the other. Otherwise, if you're broke, buy the Joss and learn how to use it. I think it'll serve you much better in the long run for feel, balance and a larger variety of shots. They really play good.
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What no comment on who will tell him to buy a custom cue first?
 
<sarcasm>Don't waste your time on Joss!
You need to go spend at least $5,000.00 on a custom cue and make sure that you purchase every single toy that you can find that has anything to do with pool as well!!!</sarcasm>

Oh wait...I shoot with a Joss and do just fine with it. I also only have 1 toy that I keep with me and that's a tip shaper/tapper(willard)
I have many pool "toys" and a custom cue that I happen to use as a break cue, but that comes later. A Joss will be a nice solid cue for you to begin with and if what you're using now has "screw-in" tips, you should see plenty of improvement in your game...so long as you remember that "NO ONE GETS BETTER WITHOUT PRACTICE"!!!!!
 
cubswin said:
I would suggest you try the joss shaft. 13mm if you can get it, the 13.25 shafts don't seem to hit as well from Joss for some reason IMHO

13 is still pretty big, but I think Joss cues hit very nicely.
Click to expand...

I agree with this guy, the 13mm Joss shaft is a good choice. I have hit with the 13.25 and they are very firm. If you have an aversion to the conical euro taper of the Z shaft then perhaps try out the 314 shaft. It features a pro taper which is more common.
 
go with the joss shaft. a predator wont improve your game. you can get a very nice looking joss for $300. lessons might also be something to consider.
 
Is durability a problem with the Z shaft as well, and can anyone use a closed bridge with the Z shaft?

I only miscue when I try to put enough english on the cue ball so I have a shot on the next ball, which may be in part due to my screw in tips, not my stroke.

As for my skill level, after breaking in 9 ball, and taking away 2 balls, and having ball in hand, I can run the remaining balls almost half the time.

Thanks, keep the suggestions coming
 
drivermaker said:
It's not applicable. Are you chomping at the bit and just dying to spit it out? :p
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I just like to see if I can get you going because your entertaining. And just for the record I shoot with a low end custom, have another on order, but.....
I shot with a Joss cue for a number of years, then another Joss, and then one more. Switched over to a schon and a joss for awhile. I like Joss cues very much, Schon cues even more. If I don't like the custom on order I'll get another Schon because they hit well and are priced so much less for a much more detailed cue.
 
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RichardCranium said:
I don't really think you will "end up" being concerned with how much deflection the shaft has...You will probably end up being more concerned with Tip / Tip Size / Shaft Size / Shaft Taper....and overall "FEEL" .....
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i agree, he probably won't notice the difference anyway, they always exagerate on the deflection either way the ball is still gonna deflect and you still gotta compensate.

also 13.25 mm is pretty thick too thick for me at least so if you decide to go with the joss you might wanna taper it down a bit.
 
Buy the Joss, and spend the money you would have spent on the Predator Z shaft on practice. And you will come out way ahead.

Joss cues are a good cue, I know several guys who love the hit and the way a Joss plays.

Plus buying a 50$ Action sneaky pete is better than a cue with screw in tips.

And give the cue time, you cant just use the cue for a week or a month and make a decent judgement on if that cue is what you want. You need to play with that cue for atleast two months, and then if you dont like the way it plays. Then consider getting a Z shaft.

Also, you can mess around with the taper which will give you a different feel and hit too.

And maybe just changing Tips on the Joss will be what you need.

But you need to explore every option with this new Joss before considering going out and buying a new Z shaft.


dave
 
The Z shaft is definetely not for beginners, very stiff(unlike 314) and unforgiving. If you miscue with a 13mm, you'll miscue even more with 11.75mm no matter what tip you put on. Even though 11.75mm is hardly extreme, one naturally must be more careful about tip placement, i.e. the stroke has to be a little more precise.

I don't understand the concern about closed bridge. It's very easy to make long and tight ones with the Z. Carom players use extreme canonical tapers and have no problems with closed bridges. The canonical taper on Z is very mild, not even remotely close to that of snooker or carom cue.
 
cubswin said:
I just like to see if I can get you going because your entertaining. And just for the record I shoot with a low end custom, have another on order, but.....
I shot with a Joss cue for a number of years, then another Joss, and then one more. Switched over to a schon and a joss for awhile. I like Joss cues very much, Schon cues even more. If I don't like the custom on order I'll get another Schon because they hit well and are priced so much less for a much more detailed cue.
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I think you're getting wise in your old age. Although that won't stop many others from saying they'd MUCH RATHER have a $200 sneaky pete from some no-name hack because he has "custom cuemaker" on his business card instead of a $1,300 "production" POS Schon or a gorgeous "production" Joss made by a HOF cuemaker. :rolleyes:
 
Buy the Joss and learn to use its shaft. You'll be very happy with it and, if you practice correctly, you will see your game improve noticeably.
Scott < Joss and custom owner > :p
 
drivermaker said:
I think you're getting wise in your old age. Although that won't stop many others from saying they'd MUCH RATHER have a $200 sneaky pete from some no-name hack because he has "custom cuemaker" on his business card instead of a $1,300 "production" POS Schon or a gorgeous "production" Joss made by a HOF cuemaker. :rolleyes:
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Not too high on Schon's, huh? :p
 
Stick with the Joss...the Predator will ruin you either way...Z's are damn hard to control...just too much mojo on whitey. Make a helluva snooker cue or if you play on perfect fast tables all the time. Joss makes a GREAT beginners cue I think, absolutely perfect for a person starting out and will last for a long time.

Shorty
 
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