ok, i did a search and didint find the input i was looking for. im buying my g/f a break cue, but dont want to spend a ton. has anybody triede the players j/b cue? hows bunjee, or lucasi as far as j/b's go. any other cues i dont know about in that price range? thank you in advance
jump break cues
- Thread starter JOEY
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instroke
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The Bunjee performs as well or better than most other cues out there. It comes with a 14 day unconditional money back guarantee - even if you break it. The Sledgehammer is considered to be the best on the market right now and it and the Bunjee perform about equally well. The Sledgehammer is what I would consider the upper end of the market, i.e. custom made and the Bunjee is the mid-range. There are a slew of cheap and inferior knockoffs on the market that have comparable performance until they start falling apart due to shoddy construction.
Bunjee info can be found at www.cuevalue.com www.seyberts.com www.hawleys.com and Sledgehammer info can be found at www.babysproshop.com
John
Bunjee info can be found at www.cuevalue.com www.seyberts.com www.hawleys.com and Sledgehammer info can be found at www.babysproshop.com
John
instroke said:
Is there any guarantee beyond the 14 day no questions asked period. I recently had the forearm split at the joint on a knockoff recently, I presume because the stiff shaft had no give in it so it didn't bend as I followed through on my break stroke. I have no recourse with the knockoff, would there be any with a bungee jump/break?
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DoomCue said:
J&J, Kangaroo, several off brands. Unlike most of you I get in the trenches with this subject. I get to see tons of cues and cases. I ask to see tons of cues and cases when I am at the shows. I ask questions like how long have you had this, what did you pay for it, how do you like it, what happened to this and so on.
There have also been some Bunjees that have "fallen apart" where the wood has cracked, ferrule has come off or something like that. The difference? With the Bunjee the customer gets a 100% refund or a brand new cue. With other brands it's often that the customer is SOL.
I have been in cue factories in Asia and I know how badly and how well they can make cues. In the case of MOST of the knockoffs of Bunjee the cues are made hastily and badly. They appear to be okay upon first inspection and then later they develop all sorts of problems.
These problems arise from improperly cured and turned wood, improperly faced ferrules and tips, shoddy wrap work, lightly glued parts and a general culture of speedy production over BEST quality methods. For the Bunjees I insisted on BEST quality methods of production. And this is why the Bunjees are backed by the guarantee they have.
You or anyone else is more than welcome to come to my shop in Dover Arkansas to make a comparison between about ten brands of jump and jump break cues to determine which excels in performance and construction.
I am positive that when it comes to jump break cues I have more experience with more brands than anyone else on this board. That means more experience building them, using them and selling them.
Go cheap and save a few bucks on the front end or spend a little more and get something that will last is my advice. The Germans have a saying and it goes something like this, es ist nicht gut wen man spart am falsche ende, or it's not good when a person saves on the wrong end.
John
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catscradle said:
Absolutely. There is a one year guarantee against manufacturer's defects. Since I chose not to use phenolic rings on the joints I accept that some wood will crack and so you get a brand new Bunjee if this happens. Better that than a cue which develops cracks and buzzes but you don't see it because of the ring holding the thing together.
John
instroke said:
Funny that you state some "knockoffs" which have problems (you mentioned J&J and Kangaroo), but you can't specifically list any examples of those knockoffs' problems, aside from your opinion on "shoddy construction". You do, however, mention that YOU have chosen not to use phenolic rings which can lead to cracked wood. Hmm. Where's the "shoddy construction" again?
-djb
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DoomCue said:
Sorry about that Doom. The examples are as follows. For both J&J and the Kangaroo, I have seen brand new cues where the ferrules and tips come off because there is practically no glue on the ferrule. I have seen jump break cues that were cracked and filled in with epoxy at the factory. I have seen jump cue and jump break cues where the wrap just unravels. I have seen jump/break cues where the joint comes off due to lack of glue.
Did I say that this is something that happens on every cue? No, I didn't. I said it happens often and it does.
If you are going to debate me then please try to get my statements correct when you choose to paraprhase me. I chose not to use the phenolic rings because they HIDE cracks in the wood. I used that example to show that even if a Bunjee cracks the customer can expect a brand new replacement.
Out of something like 30,000 Bunjees sold I have replaced less than one hundred for cracked wood. So I guess my methods hold up just fine for the majority of buyers. For the few who get a bad cue we have always made good with a new cue. This is in DIRECT contrast to what buyers often face from other brands. Bunjee dealers know that the manufacturer will back them up so they sell with NO FEAR that they will have to eat a bad cue.
If you have a beef with me then go ahead and clarify it. If you want to nitpick my statements then you are in for a fight. So far you have offered NOTHING constructive to the original question which was about anyone's experiences with J/B cues, specifically naming Bunjees. Since I have the most experience with Bunjees on this forum I offered my opinon and experiences. Try offering something constructive.
John
DoomCue said:
I have a J&J jump break cue. I love it to death, however I am going to agree with John about it being shoddily constructed. The phenolic ring on the shaft just fell off. I put it back on, and it just doesn't sit right anymore.
The cue is fine, but I can see more problems like this coming up - the cue feels rather cheap.
Plus there are these 'lines' in the finish. Like a line around the cue about 1/8" below the joint and above the butt cap.
instroke said:
No need for a "debate." You said (typed), "There are a slew of cheap and inferior knockoffs on the market that have comparable performance until they start falling apart due to shoddy construction." That seems to be a blanket statement, so I wanted that clarified. As far as paraphrasing, you said (typed again) that you accept cracks in the wood because you chose not to use phenolic rings. How did I get that wrong?
My posts may have seemed nitpicky because they were. You mention other manufacturers' names and shoddy construction together. You have a vested interest in selling your cues. That's a clear conflict of interest. How can you separate the salesperson from your opinions in order to remain objective?
I have no doubt you make a good cue - I've used a Bunjee. I've also used a Sledgehammer, a custom Jim Reeves, a Lucasi, a Cuetec, etc. I can get similar performance from each of them just by installing a different tip. The only "beef" I have is that I think, instead of putting down a "slew" of "cheap and inferior knockoffs," you can make positive statements about your own cues instead of making negative statements about others'. Don't get your panties in a bunch over it, no need to "fight" about it, and no need to get the red ass.
-djb
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Doom, there is no red ass. In the billiard industry there is no Consumer Reports to separate fact from fiction. There are a few companies and individuals who are always innovating and the rest are copying.
I give my experience with everything I come into contact with, good or bad. The original poster asked for opinions and he got one. He can easily go out and make comparisons for himself of ask for corraboration. This is what dicourse is about.
I have stood around at shows and listened to the inane bullshit that sellers will spew to sell the crappy copies to potential customers. Some of it is so wrong it's not even funny. Who is the buyer going to believe? Where can he go for help?
Right here. He can come to this and five other message boards to get input from a wide range of people. I am one of those people and every statement I make is recorded.
Now, you say that I cannot be objective. I certainly can be objective. In fact, to participate in this group and make the statements I make I had better be objective or I will be shown the door rather quickly. I am fully capable, with my experience, of evaluating similar products and reporting on their quality. I use two products as benchmarks because I am intimately familiar with those, Instroke Cases and Bunjee Jump Cues.
I do not make a dime off of the sales of Instroke Cases or Bunjee Jump cues other than what I personally sell here and there. I have never overtly offered to sell anything to anyone in this group.
Finally, as a consumer I would hope that whoever has information to provide would do so when asked so that I could gather as much as possible. If I came on this board and asked about some brands of cars and you knew of a recurring problem with one of them then I would hope you would share it. I probably would not base my buying decision solely on your information but I would have it and probably look for corraboration.
You are right in making me clarify my statements. I gladly do so. I do get hot if it feels like an attack. Sorry about that it's my combative nature.
Hope this settles it.
Ciao,
John
I give my experience with everything I come into contact with, good or bad. The original poster asked for opinions and he got one. He can easily go out and make comparisons for himself of ask for corraboration. This is what dicourse is about.
I have stood around at shows and listened to the inane bullshit that sellers will spew to sell the crappy copies to potential customers. Some of it is so wrong it's not even funny. Who is the buyer going to believe? Where can he go for help?
Right here. He can come to this and five other message boards to get input from a wide range of people. I am one of those people and every statement I make is recorded.
Now, you say that I cannot be objective. I certainly can be objective. In fact, to participate in this group and make the statements I make I had better be objective or I will be shown the door rather quickly. I am fully capable, with my experience, of evaluating similar products and reporting on their quality. I use two products as benchmarks because I am intimately familiar with those, Instroke Cases and Bunjee Jump Cues.
I do not make a dime off of the sales of Instroke Cases or Bunjee Jump cues other than what I personally sell here and there. I have never overtly offered to sell anything to anyone in this group.
Finally, as a consumer I would hope that whoever has information to provide would do so when asked so that I could gather as much as possible. If I came on this board and asked about some brands of cars and you knew of a recurring problem with one of them then I would hope you would share it. I probably would not base my buying decision solely on your information but I would have it and probably look for corraboration.
You are right in making me clarify my statements. I gladly do so. I do get hot if it feels like an attack. Sorry about that it's my combative nature.
Hope this settles it.
Ciao,
John
DoomCue said:
Ahhh, a potential flame war settled peacefully, there is hope for the mideast after all.
All this over a j/b cue. Just buy a cheep J/B if u don't want to spend a lot of money.catscradle said:Ahhh, a potential flame war settled peacefully, there is hope for the mideast after all.
Change the tip and go nutz..
Wow ! An internet forum argument settled without grudge ?! I'll take my hat off and bow down to you 
On the subject, I have had a Falcon B-J for almost ten years now and it's still in prime condition, perfectly straight and solid and nothing falling off. And I've tried many BJ's around and IMHO Falcon BJ's jump cue might be the best around excluding jump cues with special 14mm phenolic(?) tips. Many people who have tried it (or other Falcon BJ's, not just mine) who own some other BJ, have usually jumped the cueball off the table because they got much more height with less effort than they're used to with their own BJ's. I know Falcon BJ is a little bit more expensive than the cheapest BJ's but IMHO they are worth the extra buck. Though, I haven't had a chance to try the praised Sledgehammer... but it has the special phenolic ferrule&tip combination, doesn't it ?
My $0.02...
On the subject, I have had a Falcon B-J for almost ten years now and it's still in prime condition, perfectly straight and solid and nothing falling off. And I've tried many BJ's around and IMHO Falcon BJ's jump cue might be the best around excluding jump cues with special 14mm phenolic(?) tips. Many people who have tried it (or other Falcon BJ's, not just mine) who own some other BJ, have usually jumped the cueball off the table because they got much more height with less effort than they're used to with their own BJ's. I know Falcon BJ is a little bit more expensive than the cheapest BJ's but IMHO they are worth the extra buck. Though, I haven't had a chance to try the praised Sledgehammer... but it has the special phenolic ferrule&tip combination, doesn't it ?
My $0.02...
There was not even a hint of a possibility of a flame war or an Internet argument between John and me. We're two adults who can speak/write intelligently and respond accordingly. It seems like with all the goings on around here lately, some of the members have come to expect that flame war type of behavior (see recent Blud/Fast Larry threads). I, for one, don't expect it, and I won't be a part of it. No kudos are necessary for doing something that normal adults should do all the time.
For MJANTTI,
For future reference, you probably should refer to jump/breaks as JBs, not BJs. BJ means something else over here!
-djb
For MJANTTI,
For future reference, you probably should refer to jump/breaks as JBs, not BJs. BJ means something else over here!
-djb
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mjantti said:Wow ! An internet forum argument settled without grudge ?! I'll take my hat off and bow down to you
On the subject, I have had a Falcon B-J for almost ten years now and it's still in prime condition, perfectly straight and solid and nothing falling off. And I've tried many BJ's around and IMHO Falcon BJ's jump cue might be the best around excluding jump cues with special 14mm phenolic(?) tips. Many people who have tried it (or other Falcon BJ's, not just mine) who own some other BJ, have usually jumped the cueball off the table because they got much more height with less effort than they're used to with their own BJ's. I know Falcon BJ is a little bit more expensive than the cheapest BJ's but IMHO they are worth the extra buck. Though, I haven't had a chance to try the praised Sledgehammer... but it has the special phenolic ferrule&tip combination, doesn't it ?
My $0.02...
We used to make a small line of "Instroke" cues that were produced by Falcon. One of my employees bought on e of the last Jump/Breaks we made and put a Bunjee Tip on it. While it doesn't jump as close as a Bunjee he prefers it over the Bunjee Jump Breaker overall.
John
Hello Sir,
I bought one of your Bunjee Jump/Breaks at the DCC this year. The problem you are describing is exactly what happened to my cue. It happened within one week! It is not that big of a chip in the wood, but am wondering if it is going to get worse... If what you say is true, I would appreciate a replacement....Thanks
>Absolutely. There is a one year guarantee against manufacturer's defects. >Since I chose not to use phenolic rings on the joints I accept that some >wood will crack and so you get a brand new Bunjee if this happens.
I bought one of your Bunjee Jump/Breaks at the DCC this year. The problem you are describing is exactly what happened to my cue. It happened within one week! It is not that big of a chip in the wood, but am wondering if it is going to get worse... If what you say is true, I would appreciate a replacement....Thanks
>Absolutely. There is a one year guarantee against manufacturer's defects. >Since I chose not to use phenolic rings on the joints I accept that some >wood will crack and so you get a brand new Bunjee if this happens.
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ZigZag Master said:
Not a problem. Who did you purchase the cue from? Are you sure it's a Bunjee? Do you have a receipt?
Please email me at instroke@instroke.com to discuss this and make arrangements to get you taken care of. I will want to make sure that the seller is contacted so that they are in the loop. I need either a receipt or a written statement from you as to who you purchased this cue from just in case you were sold a counterfeit. There were a few sellers at the DCC telling their customers that they were selling Bunjees when the cues are not.
If it's a Bunjee you will get a brand new one free of charge.
John Barton