Jump cue, break cue, masse cue,, out of control!

[MichaelKendall]

I dont have a problem with all of the different kinds of cues I guess and I am just a guy who pays with my one playing cue...I cant jump and I dont have a jumping cue but if other people can I say more power to them...I do see your point about future exploitation of the limitless cues...I would like to see follow, draw, right, and left english cues maybe a long and short shot cue too

 

[poolplayer2093]

another post got me going about all the different cues that are available on the market today for different shots and i just wanted to get everyones thought on the subject. i understand the break cue in addition to a playing cue, but now there are jump cues and even masse cues too! are we heading in the direction of golf where we will have a different cue for every different shot?? in my opinion its already out of control and you should only be allowed to use your shooting cue and a break cue. if you cant jump or masse with one of those,,, then dont do it! as long as the rules permit all these different cues the players will take advantage,, not that i blame them. so what do you think?

i don't believe in all that having different cues thing. i have a seperate shaft for each task. one for stop shots, follow, draw, break, jump, and even one for miscelanious (yeah i know i spelled that wrong)

 

[smokeandapancak]

This thread pops up about once a month at least........
I just recently got my first J/B.. yet to use the J part.. I got simply b/c I am in a position that if something happens to a tip or a ferrule I will be out of commision for a while as there isnt any local cuemaker to do my repairs... So I break with a break cue for that reason alone... but I gotta say I like it...

all in all though I would rather play with just one cue, to include breaking... that just seems like the right way.
I know guys who carry a 9 ball cue, 8 ball cue, break cue, spare shafts and jump cue...and it just looks stupid to me.... I will say this if you break out a golf bag worth of equipment thne you better have the game to back it up. I would laugh and the guy with 5k of shite spread out all over the place who gets broke off by some dude with a NFL team cue

 

[Snapshot9]

Products

Even though all these products come out, and players may try them for awhile, then the dust settles, and they find what works for them, and the extra things they want to have for backups.

I feel that a masse cue is unnecessary, as well as my own bridge cue, but I carry the moosehead in my case.

I have been loaded down before with a completely full 4 x 8 case, and it
gets heavy. I think I have found a happy medium with my 3 x 5 case now.

I think most players have a 'full tournament' mode for equipment, and a 'daily player' mode for equipment now.

I carry a player, a Bread/jump cue with 2 shafts, and accessories, but I do plan to get another jump cue to carry too.

 

[John Barton]

another post got me going about all the different cues that are available on the market today for different shots and i just wanted to get everyones thought on the subject. i understand the break cue in addition to a playing cue, but now there are jump cues and even masse cues too! are we heading in the direction of golf where we will have a different cue for every different shot?? in my opinion its already out of control and you should only be allowed to use your shooting cue and a break cue. if you cant jump or masse with one of those,,, then dont do it! as long as the rules permit all these different cues the players will take advantage,, not that i blame them. so what do you think?

I think it's ridiculous. I want to go even further and ban leather tips, chalk, tapered cues, and go back to the mace. Or better yet just play with our hands.

All those damn cues are ruining the game. I saw a guy yesterday come in the poolroom with a cue for every shot and he ran out everything. He made every shot he faced no matter what the difficulty. He had a special sliderule calculator to show him the kick angles. He spotted the best player in the house all the balls and that guy had no chance. The guy with all the cues used to be a B player but now since he bought all this equipment he's a triple AAA player and he never misses. If he has a draw shot he pulls out a Meucci, got a Masse cue and he makes every masse. But the masse shots don't come up often because he has a Predator 9000 with autofocus and a little beeper that tells him when he's not on the right line. The cue has a tension meter to tell him where to pull back to for the right speed.

And let's not talk about the jump cue. He has the new JumpMeister Deluxe. This one has settings on it called Strickland, Putnam, Feijen and so on. It's unbelievable, he just lays it on the table and it makes the shot with perfect speed and spin.

All the other players with their normal inert jump cues that don't make the shot for them are seriously overwhelmed. They have to rely on their practiced muscle memory to make the inert jump cue strike the ball at just the right angle and speed so as to have a chance to make a successful shot. I feel sorry for the people who have to play pool with non-automatic cues. I don't know how anyone can judge the speed and spin and angle it's terribly hard.

You know who I feel really bad for?

All those guys and girls who spent so much time perfecting their games with a mace who didn't have the benefit of tapered cues with leather tips and chalk. They must have felt awful when those things were introduced to the game. I am sure that they absolutely resented the wider range of shots and finesse that those things brought to the game. Table length draw shots are not supposed to be possible, it's against the tradition of the game. Now if you could run out with a mace, or even make three balls in a row, now that took real skill. Any hack can shoot a ball straight with a cue that is pointed and grabs the ball.

I think there should be a limit on shots. No one should be allowed to draw their ball more than three feet. This will equalize it for those who don't have time or ability to develop big strokes. Ban all spin as well and ban kick shots as they can be learned from books and videos and some people are learning impaired and it's unfair to create and advantage for people who can read.

Well, I would like to say that we all should play with one house cue made from one manufacturer to exactly the same specs. No tip allowed, no chalk.

Then we'd see who the best is. And the game would really be fun to play then.

 

[smokeandapancak]

John...tsk tsk tsk .....

Little bothered by the subject matter ?

But really though, think about it at some point in time we will reach a spot in the progression of equipment that could possibly alter the basics of the game. It isnt out of the realm of possibility that a cue could be designed that commnicates with the table and the balls.. then relays the information to the user, so as to inform him if he is lined up correctly or not. Sounds crazy but not to far fecthed....

At that point would you jump to the other side of the fence or maintain the pro techie stand point?

either way I dont care what the guy brings with him to the table... but like I said, he better bring the game to match!!!

 

[John Barton]

Tony Longoni, I know longoni make a masse shaft for their cue [carom]. I remember see those metal jump rod at an US 9 Ball Open in middle '90. I believe Sammy Jones and a few other Pro were testing it. Also Earl Stickland once believe [and may still] only your regular cue should be use for jumping.

Earl says that and yet for last umpteen years he has used a "jump" cue. It is (was) a Cuetec that is way shorter than 58" and as we all know by now shorter cues make it easier to jump. He also used that cue as a break cue.

The jump rods weren't cues. As it was nearly impossible to achieve any consistent control over the cueball with them they had no right to be classified as cues. They did prove one thing though and that is with a super hard tip and a short length they could launch the ball.

So the community developed the modern jump cue which is truly a cue in every sense of the word. With a jump cue you can control the cueball and it widens the range of available jump shots.

I have won a good amount of money playing pool with just my jump cue. Because people are under the mistaken belief that one cannot apply spin with a super hard tip.

To those who wish to ban the jump cue. Try playing without a tip and see how that feels. Each cue has a purpose that developed to fill a need.

People aren't coming to matches with cues for every shot. I bet less than 2% of the pool playing population - real players - owns a masse' cue or even knows what one is or cares to buy one.

I wish people would either get off their high horse about it, because pool is about as low tech as it gets for a sport that uses implements. Or I wish they would start going off on all the brands of tips, tip shapers, aiming devices, books, videos, different grades of felt and rubber, pocket sizes and everything else that is inconsistent about this "sport".

And please stop whining about the "tradition" of the game. Pool's tradition is that it has none and has been in a constant state of evolution and adaptation for the last three hundred years.

 

[John Barton]

Smoke,

I think you should read my post again to see if you can correctly identify which side I stand on. Those that have been here a while know perfectly well what my feelings are on this.

 

[Scaramouche]

Most times these days, I walk in with a sneaky in a 1x1 case.

That is the snooker player's technique - Buy a cue, keep it a lifetime.

I find this thread bizarre - A cue pedlar complaining about a trend that will increase his sales

 

[X Breaker]

I remember seeing Willie Mosconi 's jump shot diagram, in which he jumped a ball from one table to another.

Jump shot has been around for a long time, and it was done with all sorts of equipment until the rule specifying the spec of a jump cue came out.

I respect the point of view of a purist, but I am confused here--if taking the game back to its tradition is what we want, then shouldn't we allow players to use whatever they want to use to jump, just like the "good old days?"

Why do people keep saying we should only use our playing cue to jump as if this was how jump shot was done in the old days. I believe jump shots were made with shafts, and all sorts of jump cues, until the rule came along putting a restriction on the tip size, lenght, and so on.

Am I missing something here?

Thank you.

Richard

 

[John Barton]

That is the snooker player's technique - Buy a cue, keep it a lifetime.

I find this thread bizarre - A cue pedlar complaining about a trend that will increase his sales

Try reading it again carefully and you might be of a different opinion.

As the great Smorgassbored used to say - "it ain't as much fun when you have to 'splain em'."

 

[smokeandapancak]

Smoke,

I think you should read my post again to see if you can correctly identify which side I stand on. Those that have been here a while know perfectly well what my feelings are on this.

And please stop whining about the "tradition" of the game. Pool's tradition is that it has none and has been in a constant state of evolution and adaptation for the last three hundred years.

Hmmm
I took your first post as tounge in cheek........and this quote from your second pretty much sums up my thoughts on your position.
You are "Mr Jump cue" right?

All I am saying is that at some point a line is crossed..... is it when some hack wheels in a cart full of shot specific cues... nah.. for the most part that's just a moron with to much money....

If its just about making a better cue then how do you draw the line... the line that keeps the game like the game. Why not allow rubber tips .. viola no more chalk needed....lil' jump cues...sweet.. no more time put in to learning the full cue jump...micro chip infused balls tables and cues... whoa look out!! all you need to do then is listen to what the CPU says and you never miss a shoot again!!!

I just think that pool is played with one cue.. start to finnish... just they way I like it.. not for everyone...

 

[MrLucky]

I agree with the risk of being called out of touch by the newer players...

bval- first thank alot for the compliment, i really appreciate it. as far as the comparison to golf, that sport dictates a different club for different shots- and you need it because of the varying distances and so forth. for pool though i dont think you should need different cues to make shots easier. the masse' cues are new and i dont think they will last long, but jump cues are here to stay. it wasnt that long ago that men on the pro tour were not allowed to use jump cues, they jumped with their full length break cue when it was needed. i guess what im trying to say is this- you need different clubs in golf cause you cant hit your putter 300 yards, its impossible, however you can jump or masse with a playing cue, a special cue for it just makes it EASIER. JMO

I came up in pool in the late 50's there was but 1 Cue "your playing Cue !" most folks were happy to have one and if you had a nice case ... well that just about qualified you as either rich and pretentious or a wannbee hustler!!! I do realize that technology has invaded the pool game and on the real side I welcome it to a point! I have a high tech I-2 Shaft and love what it has done for my control !

The question in my mind anyway comes up as to what does this all do as far as the skill of shotmaking? In the day there was no such thing as jumping a ball unless you were a newbie and forgot to chalk or God forbid tried to draw the ball and shot it in the air instead!!!! When snookered either by ourselves or the opponent we masse' or kicked the ball and many "good" shooters were quite good at this skill!

We broke, as I still do, with our playing Cue or in some cases with an older playing cue that wasn't officially retired as of yet and we were trying to eek out all of our moneys worth from it

So I suppose my question is do you folks think that as technology becomes more and more involved and the average player because of it can make more shots and break harder and better with the aid of these new tools is it really bettering the game or just making a average shooter appear better?

 

[Scaramouche]

Try reading it again carefully and you might be of a different opinion.

As the great Smorgassbored used to say - "it ain't as much fun when you have to 'splain em'."

The original post says

“i understand the break cue in addition to a playing cue, but now there are jump cues and even masse cues too! are we heading in the direction of golf where we will have a different cue for every different shot?? in my opinion its already out of control”

In another post he says

“i really am a purist, i didnt even own a break cue until a few years ago”

And in another he says

“i am the united states authorized dealer for longoni.”

And I say again that I find it bizarre that a cue pedlar would be complaining about this trend being out of control. He should be rubbing his hands in glee.

Splain youself

 

[seymore15074]

what about all the new racks on the market? do we really need them? whats wrong with the good old fasion triangle.

Omg, did you see the one with like the two yellow thumb spots? It does EXACTLY the same thing as a normal rack, not a bit of difference; except the price.

 

[John Barton]

The original post says

“i understand the break cue in addition to a playing cue, but now there are jump cues and even masse cues too! are we heading in the direction of golf where we will have a different cue for every different shot?? in my opinion its already out of control”

In another post he says

“i really am a purist, i didnt even own a break cue until a few years ago”

And in another he says

“i am the united states authorized dealer for longoni.”

And I say again that I find it bizarre that a cue pedlar would be complaining about this trend being out of control. He should be rubbing his hands in glee.

Splain youself

I stand totally corrected. I thought you were talking about me. Wow it's hard to imagine that a dealer for such an innovative company as Longoni would be down on innovation.

 

[John Barton]

And please stop whining about the "tradition" of the game. Pool's tradition is that it has none and has been in a constant state of evolution and adaptation for the last three hundred years.

Hmmm
I took your first post as tounge in cheek........and this quote from your second pretty much sums up my thoughts on your position.
You are "Mr Jump cue" right?

All I am saying is that at some point a line is crossed..... is it when some hack wheels in a cart full of shot specific cues... nah.. for the most part that's just a moron with to much money....

If its just about making a better cue then how do you draw the line... the line that keeps the game like the game. Why not allow rubber tips .. viola no more chalk needed....lil' jump cues...sweet.. no more time put in to learning the full cue jump...micro chip infused balls tables and cues... whoa look out!! all you need to do then is listen to what the CPU says and you never miss a shoot again!!!

I just think that pool is played with one cue.. start to finnish... just they way I like it.. not for everyone...

You are totally entitled to your opinion. I'd just like to know where you draw the line. Since cues are better now than they were 100 years ago at what point in that 100 years would you like to freeze cue construction at?

You say that the game should be played with one cue start to finish. Ok, what do you do when I come to the table with one cue that is engineered to give me the full range of shots that I would have with a "regular" cue, a masse cue and a jump cue? Would you whine that my cue is better than yours?

Is Predator a technologically superior cue? If yes why is it allowed? Don't people who shoot with a Predator cue have an advantage over those who don't?

Would you be in favor of pool being played with one cue? I mean if everyone had to use cues that were made and outfitted exactly the same?

I don't think so.

In honesty what does it matter who brings what to the table to manipulate the balls as long as the following guidelines are observed;

1. The player cannot have any mechanical aid to aim or execute the shot. All the impetus to the cueball must come from the player's own power.

2. The equipment used must not harm any of the other equipment.

3. The equipment must not disturb play or influence the opponent during their turn at the table.

I don't care if someone wants to try and beat me with a bowl of spaghetti as long as it adheres to the above three criterion.

For the record though, rubber tips have been tried and found to be inferior to chalked leather tips. Some things are found to be useful like jump cues and some things go away of their own accord like rubber tips.

As for the game being like the game? What is the game like? Billiards is probably the most diverse activity on Earth. I can't think of another activity that is played all over the world in so many forms. Which "game" are you so adamant to preserve? Do you mean Texas Express 9-Ball? I prefer to play two-foul 9-ball as was before TE Rules became popular. Why can't my game be preserved and not yours? I am sure that some people on this board would love to see nine ball abolished in favor of straight pool? Still others would like nothing better than to only see one-pocket played as the true test of skill on the pool table.

I would bet huge amounts of money that I have played more types of billiard games on more types of tables under more rulesets than all but maybe ten other people on this board. You're in Germany. Have you played last pocket 8-ball with pub rules yet? I have for 400 DM a game and won 2000. I have played that game all over Germany with Turks, Italians, Germans, Slovaks, and many more under more rules than you can imagine. I have played in a pin pool ring game there where the swing was between 100 and 1000 per game depending on how you got out.

So dude, respectfully, we need to remember that the games as played in the USA are truly just a small slice of what is played throughout the world. And those games have been changing for about the last hundred years and are still changing with every new promoter.

 

[John Barton]

This thread pops up about once a month at least........
I just recently got my first J/B.. yet to use the J part.. I got simply b/c I am in a position that if something happens to a tip or a ferrule I will be out of commision for a while as there isnt any local cuemaker to do my repairs... So I break with a break cue for that reason alone... but I gotta say I like it...

all in all though I would rather play with just one cue, to include breaking... that just seems like the right way.
I know guys who carry a 9 ball cue, 8 ball cue, break cue, spare shafts and jump cue...and it just looks stupid to me.... I will say this if you break out a golf bag worth of equipment thne you better have the game to back it up. I would laugh and the guy with 5k of shite spread out all over the place who gets broke off by some dude with a NFL team cue

Where are you in Germany? I can probably point you to plenty of highly qualified cue repairmen and cuemakers who could fulfill your every need concerning cues. Germany has some JAM UP cuemakers and I'd bet that there is one less than one hour's drive from you.

I did live there for ten years and spent most it in poolrooms.

 

[smokeandapancak]

John we arent as far apart on this topic as it seems. I have an "open mind" when it comes to new stuff. I just got my first J/B a month or so ago and any day now my first 314 is gonna show up at my door.
I guess my issue is with the bigger picture as it concerns pool, I really just want to see some type of regulation. the rules you prvided in the above post leave a bit too much open..or maybe they dont.. i dont know it just seems that everybody has a different idea about how the "game" should be played. By game I mean very simply the basic pool games.. 8,9,10 ball, 14.1, one pocket, and banks....to me most all of the other games are just "games" in the sense of time killers or gambles...back pocket 9 ball..last pocket 8ball..bank the eight.. fargo...cut throat...yadda yadda.

I honestly respect your opinions on most subjects and I hope you know that by now, I have sided with you on this forum and others, so dont think I am pushing your buttons here, all I am saying is that there has to be a limit somewhere... where, I dont know....but with out defined rules and regs things stand the chance to get out of hand....

 

[smokeandapancak]

Where are you in Germany? I can probably point you to plenty of highly qualified cue repairmen and cuemakers who could fulfill your every need concerning cues. Germany has some JAM UP cuemakers and I'd bet that there is one less than one hour's drive from you.

I did live there for ten years and spent most it in poolrooms.

Thanks for the offer.. i am in upper franconia..Wuerzburg.. I recently spoke with Markus from Eurowest in Frankfurt, so I will will be visiting there shop soon..hopefully...but if you know anybody around here please pass there info along.. I have a cue that is in desperate need of a refinnish before I head back to the States.