Jump cues

[lou the greek]

I know that most cue makers,probably all would disagree with me,but IMO jump cues are not good for the game,too many times players play a good safety snookering their opponent and its like they sell the game out,opponent goes for shorty jumps makes the ball and runs out,or players get out of line snookering them selves no problem go to the jump cue and run out,there is no reward for playing safe or for knowing kicking systems,and there is no punishment for getting out of line and snookering your self,what you guys think?

 

[djyadj]

I know that most cue makers,probably all would disagree with me,but IMO jump cues are not good for the game,too many times players play a good safety snookering their opponent and its like they sell the game out,opponent goes for shorty jumps makes the ball and runs out,or players get out of line snookering them selves no problem go to the jump cue and run out,there is no reward for playing safe or for knowing kicking systems,and there is no punishment for getting out of line and snookering your self,what you guys think?

I believe many pro hold the same belief, if you take away jump cue, many more pinoys or better kicker will prevail. (which is also the essence/knowledge of the game) :thumbup:
I'd support no jump cue as well, but jumping with full cue is fine, that's a skill.

 

[trustyrusty]

I know that most cue makers,probably all would disagree with me,but IMO jump cues are not good for the game,too many times players play a good safety snookering their opponent and its like they sell the game out,opponent goes for shorty jumps makes the ball and runs out,or players get out of line snookering them selves no problem go to the jump cue and run out,there is no reward for playing safe or for knowing kicking systems,and there is no punishment for getting out of line and snookering your self,what you guys think?

I'd say if they jump, make the ball, and get out, that it really wasn't that good of a safety....was it? Shore up your safety game and you won't need to complain about jump cues.

 

[Island Drive]

I'd say if they jump, make the ball, and get out, that it really wasn't that good of a safety....was it? Shore up your safety game and you won't need to complain about jump cues.

Is it allowed in Snooker or Three Cushion?

 

[djv122385]

I believe that someone needs to have all tools in their bag of tricks (jumping, kicking, etc.). However someone awhile back ran the stats on Kicking vs Jumping, and those who jumped successfully had something like a 30% chance of winning the rack, by successfully I mean pocketing the ball. Meanwhile those who jumped unsuccessfully ended up with a less than 15% chance. With this being said, even people who jump well, whether with a jump cue, or full cue.....aren't necessarily improving their odds by doing so. Personally I only jump on the occasion of 1.) An absolutely horrific kick, or 2.) a blatant pocketing opp/jump safe opp. I understand and respect your standpoint that jump cues are bad for the game, and may be the "easy way out"...however unless you're at the top of the top players in the game....does it really benefit someone in the long run? Not near as much as you would think.

 

[trustyrusty]

Is it allowed in Snooker or Three Cushion?

He's not complaining about jump cues in those games. Should I have told him to only play games that jump cues are not allowed in.....or, should I have told him to REALLY lock someone up in games that they are allowed in??

 

[JB Cases]

I know that most cue makers,probably all would disagree with me,but IMO jump cues are not good for the game,too many times players play a good safety snookering their opponent and its like they sell the game out,opponent goes for shorty jumps makes the ball and runs out,or players get out of line snookering them selves no problem go to the jump cue and run out,there is no reward for playing safe or for knowing kicking systems,and there is no punishment for getting out of line and snookering your self,what you guys think?

Never had this discussion on azb before ;-)

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[JB Cases]

Jumping is a skill. Kicking is a skill. Good players know how to do both and when to do either.

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[lou the greek]

Jumping is a skill. Kicking is a skill. Good players know how to do both and when to do either.

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This is not about skill, it's about not getting punished for poor position play,and not getting rewarded for an excellent safety,
W/ today's jump sticks jumping is a skill that is very easily mastered,I've seen C and B class players jump and make balls as good or better than the pros,
Kicking is a skill which is much more difficult to master,it takes touch and a lot of knowledge.

 

[12squared]

Never had this discussion on azb before ;-)

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Welcome back, John!

It's one thing to use a jump cue to get out of a safety your opponent left you, I don't have a big problem with that (but would prefer no jump cues); What I do have a problem w/is when your opponent hooks themselves during a run and they use a jump cue to continue their run or they don't get penalized for poor position play because they use the jump cue to make a legal hit. Of course this goes for me as well.

I would like a compromise: Jump cues can be used by the incoming player after they are hooked by their opponent, but it is not allowed if you or they hook themselves during a run.

Do you think that would ever catch on? I hate that there is no penalty for bad position play for those that use jump cues well. (And yes, I know it's a skill).

Dave

 

[lou the greek]

Age

I'd say if they jump, make the ball, and get out, that it really wasn't that good of a safety....was it? Shore up your safety game and you won't need to complain about jump cues.

I say a lot of times players are in very tough positions and can't freeze the cue ball into and object ball, but they make a great shot to snooker their opponents, but w/ today's jump sticks you don't need too much space between the cue ball and another ball,same when your opponent gets out of line and gets snookered the cue ball doesn't always freeze on an other ball, and I say I like to see my opponent kick those balls in and runout,now that would be skill,I'll take it you seen Efrem's magical kicks.

 

[lou the greek]

Welcome back, John!

It's one thing to use a jump cue to get out of a safety your opponent left you, I don't have a big problem with that (but would prefer no jump cues); What I do have a problem w/is when your opponent hooks themselves during a run and they use a jump cue to continue their run or they don't get penalized for poor position play because they use the jump cue to make a legal hit. Of course this goes for me as well.

I would like a compromise: Jump cues can be used by the incoming player after they are hooked by their opponent, but it is not allowed if you or they hook themselves during a run.

Do you think that would ever catch on? I hate that there is no penalty for bad position play for those that use jump cues well. (And yes, I know it's a skill).

Dave

Very well said my friend,not a bad compromise I like it a
lot,lets spread the word and see what everybody thinks.

 

[JB Cases]

Welcome back, John!

It's one thing to use a jump cue to get out of a safety your opponent left you, I don't have a big problem with that (but would prefer no jump cues); What I do have a problem w/is when your opponent hooks themselves during a run and they use a jump cue to continue their run or they don't get penalized for poor position play because they use the jump cue to make a legal hit. Of course this goes for me as well.

I would like a compromise: Jump cues can be used by the incoming player after they are hooked by their opponent, but it is not allowed if you or they hook themselves during a run.

Do you think that would ever catch on? I hate that there is no penalty for bad position play for those that use jump cues well. (And yes, I know it's a skill).

Dave

I don't think it will catch on and nor should it. Hooking yourself is bad enough without taking away one of the means to extricate yourself from that situation.

It's just part of the game. A jump shot is a great shot no matter what the situation is. The player still has to execute all the same criteria, speed and spin with the added task of shooting into the table at a jacked up angle. So even simple jump shots are not particularly easy.



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[JB Cases]

This is not about skill, it's about not getting punished for poor position play,and not getting rewarded for an excellent safety,
W/ today's jump sticks jumping is a skill that is very easily mastered,I've seen C and B class players jump and make balls as good or better than the pros,
Kicking is a skill which is much more difficult to master,it takes touch and a lot of knowledge.

No you haven't seen c players who jump as well as pros.

I know people like to day that but it simply isn't true with very rare exceptions.

The rare exception is the non-pro who choose to practice jumping excessively which develops their skill in that single area beyond where they are overall as a player.

In general though a professional will be more accurate and have a much higher success rate with a jump cue than a non-pro.

This observation is based on my direct experience teaching thousands of people to jump over many years when I owned the Bunjee Jumper brand.

Jump cues are engineered to make jumping easier. Like a tip is engineered to make applying spin easier. Neither one actually takes the shot.... The player does that. The higher degree of skill the player has the better they are at every part of the game.

I don't understand this fascination with wanting to punish someone so much?

Or this concept of not getting rewarded for a safety.

We all have seen opponents kick out of safes so why is there no move to ban kicking systems that teach people in minutes how to figure out kick shots?

The fact is that what was an "excellent" safe in 1983 isn't good enough in 2015.

Tighten up your safety skills and you will be rewarded for them more often.

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[JB Cases]

https://youtu.be/YNzXku0pImU

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[ctyhntr]

Jump cues, along with break cues are popular because we showcase our sport with the game of 9-ball (Texas Express 9-ball). If popularity switched back to 14.1, then sales of specialty cues wouldn't be as as strong. Quoting Paul Newman from the Color of Money, "What the Hell, Checkers sells more than Chess" Same with pool, audience rather watch 9-ball than 14.1.

From my experience in league play, I've seen too many times when a player short-circuits his/her thinking process by automatically reaching for the jump cue. Meaning, they think it will get them out every time. Playing against B or less, that usually ends in a foul (miscue) 1/3-1/2 the time, or ball-in-hand for me because my opponent usually doesn't take the time to practice with the jump cue.

To me, the common train of thought when someone buys a jump cue is not unlike buying a gun for protection for most folks. They neglect that you need to learn gun safety, train to use it properly. Jump cues, like guns which are misused, gets blamed for all the ills in society.

 

[Allen Brown]

I'd say if they jump, make the ball, and get out, that it really wasn't that good of a safety....was it? Shore up your safety game and you won't need to complain about jump cues.

This right here says it all. If it was that good of a safe they wouldn't be able to jump and make a good bit of make a ball.

 

[ghost ball]

I didn't invent this game, but I think it was intended to be two dimensional...until, of course, a ball is pocketed. In that case, it disappears.

 

[9Ballr]

I know that most cue makers,probably all would disagree with me,but IMO jump cues are not good for the game,too many times players play a good safety snookering their opponent and its like they sell the game out,opponent goes for shorty jumps makes the ball and runs out,or players get out of line snookering them selves no problem go to the jump cue and run out,there is no reward for playing safe or for knowing kicking systems,and there is no punishment for getting out of line and snookering your self,what you guys think?

If they can still do this after a safety shot the safety shot wasn't
all that good. The shooter needs to get the cue ball even closer
behind an object ball.
I'm not against jump cues at all.
It makes you have to really think hard to get a good safety shot.
Whereas with not jump cues in play just get the cue ball somewhere
behind the crowd and you're good to go in most cases.

 

[djyadj]

Why don't we put it to vote