Jump Shots, do you like them or not?

[Skratch]

Just wanted to throw on quick point out there about banning jump cues. The way I see it, most people who disagree with it say that you should use you're normal playing cue instead. I think that's a poor argument. Rebutting, would you ban break cues, or using anything other than your normal cue for the break? Thinking along these lines, if you allow the break cues/or another cue besides your normal playing cue because it protects your normal cue, then I would argue you should allow the jump/masse cues as well, no? I dont think there are many players, who break with their playing cues. Given the choice, they use a different cue other than their normal playing cue. Dont most of the Pros use them too? I hope I've expressed my point well.

 

[philly]

Just wanted to throw on quick point out there about banning jump cues. The way I see it, most people who disagree with it say that you should use you're normal playing cue instead. I think that's a poor argument. Rebutting, would you ban break cues, or using anything other than your normal cue for the break? Thinking along these lines, if you allow the break cues/or another cue besides your normal playing cue because it protects your normal cue, then I would argue you should allow the jump/masse cues as well, no? I dont think there are many players, who break with their playing cues. Given the choice, they use a different cue other than their normal playing cue. Dont most of the Pros use them too? I hope I've expressed my point well.

To me jump cues take away from the purity of the game. Kicking is an art and we are moving further and further away from the heart of the game that really started with Balkline and 3 cushion. If you are a 3 cushion player you can kick. I would wager people that favor jump cues play 3 cushion rarely or not at all so they do not fully understand the triangles built into the table. By the way, I am fine with doing away with break cues also. Solid contact with the rack is probably more important than the force of the break shot.

 

[jb1911]

I would vote for a complete ban on jump shots.

 

[9andout]

Just wanted to throw on quick point out there about banning jump cues. The way I see it, most people who disagree with it say that you should use you're normal playing cue instead. I think that's a poor argument. Rebutting, would you ban break cues, or using anything other than your normal cue for the break? Thinking along these lines, if you allow the break cues/or another cue besides your normal playing cue because it protects your normal cue, then I would argue you should allow the jump/masse cues as well, no? I dont think there are many players, who break with their playing cues. Given the choice, they use a different cue other than their normal playing cue. Dont most of the Pros use them too? I hope I've expressed my point well.

If I use a different cue to break with a standard tip I believe your point would be moot.

 

[philly]

If I use a different cue to break with a standard tip I believe your point would be moot.

Not sure what you mean .

 

[Skratch]

If I use a different cue to break with a standard tip I believe your point would be moot.

The point was to use any cue other than your normal playing cue. Whether it uses a standard tip or phenolic,etc, it doesnt matter. You're using a different cue altogether. Imagine the rule: No other cues allowed, but your playing cue! No masse/jump/break cues. Ban them all together! Lets go a step further, no multi-sectional cues. Must be one-piece! I think this extreme segue of thinking should lead you to the point that if you ban the jump/masse cue, you might as well ban the break cues for the same reasoning! Notice, the type of tip used is now a moot point. :thumbup:

Again, this is irrespective of allowing the jump shot as a legal shot execution. I still like it as it an option. I perfer kicking, but why disallow the jump? (please dont respond to this one, as its being discussed in the rest of the thread).

 

[bradsh98]

The point was to use any cue other than your normal playing cue. Whether it uses a standard tip or phenolic,etc, it doesnt matter. You're using a different cue altogether. Imagine the rule: No other cues allowed, but your playing cue! No masse/jump/break cues. Ban them all together! Lets go a step further, no multi-sectional cues. Must be one-piece! I think this extreme segue of thinking should lead you to the point that if you ban the jump/masse cue, you might as well ban the break cues for the same reasoning! Notice, the type of tip used is now a moot point. :thumbup:

Again, this is irrespective of allowing the jump shot as a legal shot execution. I still like it as it an option. I perfer kicking, but why disallow the jump? (please dont respond to this one, as its being discussed in the rest of the thread).

This is a great point.

If this is about 'maintaining the purity of the game,' we should go back to nap cloth and only play with one piece house cues.

To say that players will not learn the rails, if they resort to jumping, is just silly.. You can be good at jumping AND kicking, if you practice both. You'll learn what you put the time in to learn.

In my opinion, allowing jump shots makes the game much more difficult. You have to play much better safeties, to keep your opponent from having the option to jump. Besides, there is no way to completely eliminate jumping. How would you ever enforce it? I understand not allowing short cues, or even requiring the use of a playing cue, but you could never completely eliminate jumping.

 

[jasonlaus]

I would imagine that what you're saying I can't do is complete crap based on the fact that you've never seen me play. I can draw very well on a long stroke shot, done it many times. You keep jumping with your full cue and impressing the crowds and I'll keep using my jump cue to get out when I have to. We'll both be happier this way.

I based it off the statement you made about full cues not being made to jump balls, thats complete bs, and with such little understanding of the game(you) I made the assumption based on that, that you probably have problems with other "hard shots" on the table also

 

[jasonlaus]

Just wanted to throw on quick point out there about banning jump cues. The way I see it, most people who disagree with it say that you should use you're normal playing cue instead. I think that's a poor argument. Rebutting, would you ban break cues, or using anything other than your normal cue for the break? Thinking along these lines, if you allow the break cues/or another cue besides your normal playing cue because it protects your normal cue, then I would argue you should allow the jump/masse cues as well, no? I dont think there are many players, who break with their playing cues. Given the choice, they use a different cue other than their normal playing cue. Dont most of the Pros use them too? I hope I've expressed my point well.

I'm in the camp that says 1 cue period, no jump, no break. Never really damaged a cue breaking with it.
I own a break cue(just recently) but would have no problem leaving it at home.
Jason

 

[jasonlaus]

This is a great point.

If this is about 'maintaining the purity of the game,' we should go back to nap cloth and only play with one piece house cues.

To say that players will not learn the rails, if they resort to jumping, is just silly.. You can be good at jumping AND kicking, if you practice both. You'll learn what you put the time in to learn.

In my opinion, allowing jump shots makes the game much more difficult. You have to play much better safeties, to keep your opponent from having the option to jump. Besides, there is no way to completely eliminate jumping. How would you ever enforce it? I understand not allowing short cues, or even requiring the use of a playing cue, but you could never completely eliminate jumping.

Doesnt matter if a cue is 1 or 2 piece, now people are just being silly. They are the same length. Why you're at it go back to Ivory balls - then none of us could play

 

[bradsh98]

Doesnt matter if a cue is 1 or 2 piece, now people are just being silly. They are the same length. Why you're at it go back to Ivory balls - then none of us could play

Ivory is too difficult to come by. We'll have to settle for clay.


On a more serious note, I would be fine with only using one cue, as I typically only use my player anyway. However, I really dislike the idea of limiting technological advances.

 

[ceebee]

I'm in the camp that says 1 cue period, no jump, no break. Never really damaged a cue breaking with it.
I own a break cue(just recently) but would have no problem leaving it at home.
Jason

I like my Break Cue, it serves it's purpose very well. A Player's skill enables him-her the ability to use it well. If you wanna use one (1) cue, have at it.

I have a great Jump Cue & that ability has saved my bacon more than once.

However, I would vote against the use of a Jump Cue.

 

[VIProfessor]

I have observed this debate for a number of years, and I must point out what appear to be logical fallacies on the part of those opposing jump cues. First, logic and empirical evidence do not support the contention that jump cues have taken away from the kicking game. The fact is that to be an advanced player you must have well-developed skills in ALL facets of the game, and kicking and jumping are no different.

I note that many posters oppose jump cues because they make it too easy for their opponents, and at the same time they note that their lower level opponents most often give up a shot or ball in hand when they use their jump cues. So which is it? If jumping made things so easy, then the failure rate wouldn't be so high. This gives us cause, then, to consider jumping as just another element of the game that has introduced new variables which must be considered and dealt with. As with all other elements of life, change should be a welcome constant.

Lastly, for those who claim that jumping has taken away from the kicking game, I have one question: Since 1985, have the kicking abilities of professional and skilled amateur players increased or decreased? I think we all know the answer to that question.

In an era where one-foul is the rule, jump cues are, IMHO, perfectly legitimate.

 

[Skratch]

Doesnt matter if a cue is 1 or 2 piece, now people are just being silly. They are the same length. Why you're at it go back to Ivory balls - then none of us could play

Thats the point. If we go back to the old days, none of us would play!. The times have changed, the game has changed the equipment has changed. The rules have changed. To make the game static, be it today,s standard of that of yester-years is not allowing the game to evolve. So really, does allowing jumping or the use of jump cues really affect the game that much? If one person prefers not to do it, should that dictate that others not be allowed? Can you image if people back then saw the game of today, and had the same mentality, would you (figuratively) be willing to deny yourself the way you play today? The future is ahead, let the game evolve.

 

[Skratch]

I'm in the camp that says 1 cue period, no jump, no break. Never really damaged a cue breaking with it.
I own a break cue(just recently) but would have no problem leaving it at home.
Jason

Again, that is your preference, but to restrict others is counter to the evolution of the game.

 

[RunoutJJ]

If the rules allow it and you are good at them then do it!!! I use to be so opposed to them but until using one myself ive made some amazing shots and got out using one. Hell on time I pushed out to a jump and the guy snickered and said... "Knock yourself out!!

I jumped the ball and smacked the 2 ball 4 feet down table and split the 4" pocket down the middle. Oh and got perfect shape and ran out.

Told him to put that in your pipe and smoke it!!! If you got the means and you arent breaking any rules then do it!! Dog eat dog world.

 

[StuartTKelley]

I based it off the statement you made about full cues not being made to jump balls, thats complete bs, and with such little understanding of the game(you) I made the assumption based on that, that you probably have problems with other "hard shots" on the table also

Dude, you're way off base about me, what I understand about pool, and how I play. Who the f*** are you anyway? So you're saying that a full cue is designed ideally for the jump shot? I didn't say it couldn't be done. I know how to jump...I do it all of the time, with a JUMP cue. I can kick too by the way....imagine that! I even know how to perform a kick...and I can hold a cue too...I've come a long way, wow.

Because I disagree that a full cue was ideally designed for all shots you presume that I automatically know nothing about pool and can't make a draw shot? Wow, you must be somebody to be able to deduce all of that from the statement I made. Try again. Better yet, don't...you're just annoying me. Tell me again why the jump cue was ever made and also fill me on why the pro's use them? I guess they are below your level too....funny, I've never heard of you...

 

[Skratch]

To me jump cues take away from the purity of the game. Kicking is an art and we are moving further and further away from the heart of the game that really started with Balkline and 3 cushion. If you are a 3 cushion player you can kick. I would wager people that favor jump cues play 3 cushion rarely or not at all so they do not fully understand the triangles built into the table. By the way, I am fine with doing away with break cues also. Solid contact with the rack is probably more important than the force of the break shot.

I understand where you're coming from. But to think that allowing the jump shot is taking away from the game is not correct, in my opinion. I think it adds more dimension, an evolution if you will. I take a different approach to the game. It is a means of expressing yourself, your character, your ability. Would you like that someone restrict you from doing a shot that you are capable of? Drawing, Following, masse-ing. Imagine if you were only allowed to hit center ball, because others thought that it took away from the game?! Doesn't that sound wrong to you? What I'm saying is that its a personal choice, and no one should tell you what you can and can't do if you're capable. I prefer to Kick. I'm better at kicking the ball, than jumping. Do I want someone telling me that I can't jump, when I can? I think you know the answer to that one. BTW, I play 3C as often as I can. Which is why I prefer kicking.

Lets play devils advocate. What if we were to say ban kicking the ball? You were only allowed to jump. Would I be hypocritical and say anything different? No, I would say the same thing in the reverse. Why should you be denied, when you know you can kick!?

:grin-square:

 

[jasonlaus]

Dude, you're way off base about me, what I understand about pool, and how I play. Who the f*** are you anyway? So you're saying that a full cue is designed ideally for the jump shot? I didn't say it couldn't be done. I know how to jump...I do it all of the time, with a JUMP cue. I can kick too by the way....imagine that! I even know how to perform a kick...and I can hold a cue too...I've come a long way, wow.

Because I disagree that a full cue was ideally designed for all shots you presume that I automatically know nothing about pool and can't make a draw shot? Wow, you must be somebody to be able to deduce all of that from the statement I made. Try again. Better yet, don't...you're just annoying me. Tell me again why the jump cue was ever made and also fill me on why the pro's use them? I guess they are below your level too....funny, I've never heard of you...

The jump cue was made for people like you who can't jump:grin-square:

Pros use them cause they are legal to use.

The debate here is jump cues yes or no. I say no, learn to jump full cue.

As far as the posters saying lets go back to Ivory or clay balls and nap cloth....I'm in! I have a big enough stroke to play that equipment, and it would definitely hurt ALOT of players games cause they don't have the stroke or control to play that way
Jason

 

[philly]

I understand where you're coming from. But to think that allowing the jump shot is taking away from the game is not correct, in my opinion. I think it adds more dimension, an evolution if you will. I take a different approach to the game. It is a means of expressing yourself, your character, your ability. Would you like that someone restrict you from doing a shot that you are capable of? Drawing, Following, masse-ing. Imagine if you were only allowed to hit center ball, because others thought that it took away from the game?! Doesn't that sound wrong to you? What I'm saying is that its a personal choice, and no one should tell you what you can and can't do if you're capable. I prefer to Kick. I'm better at kicking the ball, than jumping. Do I want someone telling me that I can't jump, when I can? I think you know the answer to that one. BTW, I play 3C as often as I can. Which is why I prefer kicking.

Lets play devils advocate. What if we were to say ban kicking the ball? You were only allowed to jump. Would I be hypocritical and say anything different? No, I would say the same thing in the reverse. Why should you be denied, when you know you can kick!?

:grin-square:

Take away kicking? The rails were put on the table for a reason ie. to move the cue ball or object ball to the desired position. I understand the argument for advances in technology. Who is to say where it should stop. Technology has ruined the game of golf. 350 yard drives are the norm. Ridiculous. Courses have gotten ridiculously long because of technology yet these same guys that hit those long drives can't hit the ball acurately with clubs that good old Bobby Jones used. They have tried and can't do it.