Jumping up a level

[BasementDweller]

Quality vs. Quantity

It's become a common theme around here that the quality of your practice is more important than the quantity of it. Actually, it's a pretty common theme in the sporting world today. And while there's a valid point to be made about the quality of someone's practice don't ever lose site of the absolute FACT that every single great player in any field put in a ridiculous amount of time. I would be willing to bet that it wasn't ALL quality time as we would define it around here.

Getting back to pool...

How can anybody really complete 5 hours of "quality" practice at pool? I think it can be done but you have to work up to it in increments. For most of us amateurs if we had 8 hours to play pool I bet only an hour or two of this would be "quality" practice time (by definition), so would you be better off not playing the other 6 hours? I think you should play.

Everybody's always preaching about the value of drills around here and I think what we lose site of is the value of playing pool. I'm talking about just the mindless action of pocketing balls and positioning the cue ball where intended -- over and over and over again.

Practice is where we engage our mind and demand certain things out of our body. We work on stroking straighter, staying down longer, finishing our delivery just so, and these sorts of things. But the part that we don't talk about as much is how we take this practice and turn it into a mindless action -- a game that is completely played at the subconsious level? How do we transform our practice game into our everyday game? For me, I think this is where all the countless hours of mindless pool playing comes into play.

This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth but I think all the great players have put in all these mindless hours of play. But if you were just sitting on the rail watching some of this play you would maybe be tempted to say, "boy that doesn't look like quality table time there." But I bet it does serve a purpose.

So practice on your stroke as long as you can. When you begin to lose your focus and you can't stand practicing anymore -- play some. Play until you can't cue anymore. Then prop yourself up next to the table and just roll the balls by hand and watch them collide into each other. Okay maybe that's going just a bit too far but I'm just trying to make my point clear -- don't every underestimate the importance of table time.

 

[BasementDweller]

I'm thinking of setting aside the winter to practice exclusively on pool, with the goal of jumping a speed. I'm working on a rough draft of my "game plan". I've been playing for 20 years, and if I do this, I plan to stop playing entirely, and only work on my plan during the period in question.

My rough plan thus far is:

Focused Practice:
Focused practice will consist of the following drills:
3000 strokes of shooting CB directly into pocket, per Tor Lowry’s video. I will switch it up between many speeds, many tip positions, many pocket aim positions, and combinations of all of the above.

Ball Pocketing Drill: The stroke grooved from drill 1 may cause shots I previously shot with a stroke flaw to miss. Therefore, I want to work on some basic shots to obtain the correct alignment for them. For any given shot, I will shoot it with various speed, spin, and small variations in cut angle.

Joe Tuckers’s Guaranteed Improvement:
I will go through the entire book. A drill each day.

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My personal weaknesses:
I will record 10 racks playing the 4 ball ghost. Any shot that did not go as planned, whether from a pocketing perspective or a position perspective, will be noted. The noted shots will be collected from the video, set up, and practiced individually. Each shot will be shot a total of 100 times, in the following sequence: 10 times each shot, 30 times each shot, 10 times each shot, 40 times each shot, 10 times each shot.

BU Exams

I think the one thing that you are missing in this equation and it's the same thing that I run into is what keeps you focused on all this practice?

How about calling someone out and setting up a match that will occur in 6 months time? The Lou vs. JB match got me thinking about that. Just in my local area it would probably benefit me to call someone out and say, "hey in 6 months we are going to play a 500 dollar set." Or something like that. You set up the game now and this gives you something to keep you focused on your practice. Or even just a tournament or something. It seems like there has to be something at the end to keep you motivated. By "you" I guess I mean "me" or anybody really.

Just wanting to be better is a motivator for me but it's not the same type of motivator as is an upcoming tournament or knowing I'll be playing someone soon. The latter just doesn't happen for me much.

 

[Andrew Manning]

I like this analogy. This is what it feels like. Just impatient i guess. Though I could spin it and say that measurement is important to make sure you are doing the right things to move towards your goal. Maybe I should just measure every 5 miles though instead of every block.

I think if you're not using competition to measure, you're missing the point.

For instance, you mention being able to hit the right 1/4 ball off a two-rail kick, which does come up in a few kick-safes from time to time. But if you're a B player, I'm rather certain that 2-rail kicking ability is not the primary reason you win or lose when you match up.

Don't focus your practice equally on all your perceived weaknesses. Don't focus your practice on your weakest weaknesses either (even though many would advise you to). Focus your practice on the weaknesses that cause the most of your losses in competition.

This implies you regularly engage in competitive play against players who can beat you. If you're not doing that, my belief is that you don't stand much chance of achieving the improvement you're after, regardless of your practice.

-Andrew

 

[fastone371]

It's become a common theme around here that the quality of your practice is more important than the quantity of it. Actually, it's a pretty common theme in the sporting world today. And while there's a valid point to be made about the quality of someone's practice don't ever lose site of the absolute FACT that every single great player in any field put in a ridiculous amount of time. I would be willing to bet that it wasn't ALL quality time as we would define it around here.

Getting back to pool...

How can anybody really complete 5 hours of "quality" practice at pool? I think it can be done but you have to work up to it in increments. For most of us amateurs if we had 8 hours to play pool I bet only an hour or two of this would be "quality" practice time (by definition), so would you be better off not playing the other 6 hours? I think you should play.

Everybody's always preaching about the value of drills around here and I think what we loose site of is the value of playing pool. I'm talking about just the mindless action of pocketing balls and positioning the cue ball where intended -- over and over and over again.

Practice is where we engage our mind and demand certain things out of our body. We work on stroking straighter, staying down longer, finishing our delivery just so, and these sorts of things. But the part that we don't talk about as much is how we take this practice and turn it into a mindless action -- a game that is completely played at the subconsious level? How do we transform our practice game into our everyday game? For me, I think this is where all the countless hours of mindless pool playing comes into play.

This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth but I think all the great players have put in all these mindless hours of play. But if you were just sitting on the rail watching some of this play you would maybe be tempted to say, "boy that doesn't look like quality table time there." But I bet it does serves a purpose.

So practice on your stroke as long as you can. When you begin to lose your focus and you can't stand practicing anymore -- play some. Play until you can't cue anymore. Then prop yourself up next to the table and just roll the balls by hand and watch them collide into each other. Okay maybe that's going just a bit too far but I'm just trying to make my point clear -- don't every underestimate the importance of table time.

I also agree with what Andrew said about practicing what caused you to lose last match.
Before you go any further your fundamentals must be rock solid or all of this practice wont mean a thing. I have been playing for about 3 years now, I play/practice 5-6 nites a week, a couple hours at a time. The thing that has helped the most so far is playing in small weekly tournaments. I think a combination of getting my nerves settled and having to play my best or at least not playing down to the level of my opponent, helped a lot. I am almost always the lowest ranked BCA player at the tournaments I play in, Im only a B so you cant get any lower, but I finished in the top 7% of last years state tournament out of 250-260 and hope I still get to play in the B bracket 1 more year. I think playing against better opponents will help you the most because you will pick up the strategy quicker and that is something that is hard to practice. Its easy for someone to explain it to you but its very hard to put into action, thats where the competition will help, watching your opponent run the table down, it will also get you the repetition you need.

 

[sixpack]

It's become a common theme around here that the quality of your practice is more important than the quantity of it. Actually, it's a pretty common theme in the sporting world today. And while there's a valid point to be made about the quality of someone's practice don't ever lose site of the absolute FACT that every single great player in any field put in a ridiculous amount of time. I would be willing to bet that it wasn't ALL quality time as we would define it around here.

Getting back to pool...

How can anybody really complete 5 hours of "quality" practice at pool? I think it can be done but you have to work up to it in increments. For most of us amateurs if we had 8 hours to play pool I bet only an hour or two of this would be "quality" practice time (by definition), so would you be better off not playing the other 6 hours? I think you should play.

Everybody's always preaching about the value of drills around here and I think what we loose site of is the value of playing pool. I'm talking about just the mindless action of pocketing balls and positioning the cue ball where intended -- over and over and over again.

Practice is where we engage our mind and demand certain things out of our body. We work on stroking straighter, staying down longer, finishing our delivery just so, and these sorts of things. But the part that we don't talk about as much is how we take this practice and turn it into a mindless action -- a game that is completely played at the subconsious level? How do we transform our practice game into our everyday game? For me, I think this is where all the countless hours of mindless pool playing comes into play.

This is just my opinion so take it for what it's worth but I think all the great players have put in all these mindless hours of play. But if you were just sitting on the rail watching some of this play you would maybe be tempted to say, "boy that doesn't look like quality table time there." But I bet it does serves a purpose.

So practice on your stroke as long as you can. When you begin to lose your focus and you can't stand practicing anymore -- play some. Play until you can't cue anymore. Then prop yourself up next to the table and just roll the balls by hand and watch them collide into each other. Okay maybe that's going just a bit too far but I'm just trying to make my point clear -- don't every underestimate the importance of table time.

Yes. I agree with this. I think the 'mindless' non-purposeful hours are what help players get in the zone. And I think practicing being comfortable in that place is as important - maybe more important - than the mechanics of how to make a ball when it comes to actually winning against real opponents.

 

[jburkm002]

Playing the ghost from my understanding tests your offense strength. Doesn't matter if you made a ball on the break or even scratched. You get ball in hand after the break. See how you do counting actual break and runs. Work on safety drills and kicks. Lots of good offensive players lack in those areas. Even if your ball making stats don't go up. Your wins could by improving other areas of your game. I see lots of drills for making a ball and some position drills. Those are good. Really good players with the same shot have several options to acheive the same position. Placing a ball on the table a hitting it after a shot is a good drill. Also trying to go between two balls. Pros are so good at knowing the path of the cue ball. Without these skills we deflect off balls or get wrong angles. Pros don't guess. Lots of drills you can create yourself.

 

[ronscuba]

.....

Practice is where we engage our mind and demand certain things out of our body. We work on stroking straighter, staying down longer, finishing our delivery just so, and these sorts of things. But the part that we don't talk about as much is how we take this practice and turn it into a mindless action -- a game that is completely played at the subconsious level? How do we transform our practice game into our everyday game? For me, I think this is where all the countless hours of mindless pool playing comes into play.
.......

Nice Post. :thumbup:

 

[tonythetiger583]

This is what I'm trying to figure out how to do. The problem is finding the balance of developing new skills while retaining your current ones with limited practice time.

Let's say I've identified 10 things that I would like to work on for improvement, should I practice each one of those things once every 2 weeks. (This is currently how I'm practicing and I don't really like it because the progress is so slow it is hard to measure even on a quarterly basis.) Or should I work on 1 thing for a month or longer until I get it down cold before I worry about the other 9 deficiencies. Then - How much time should be dedicated to keeping that new skill at that level while I'm trying to work on the next thing.

I know there isn't one way to do it. I was just looking for insights from people that have made a noticeable jump in ability with limited practice time.

I just don't think there's a way of getting around total logged hours. I also don't think it's as simple as learning a skill and having that skill. If you get better, suddenly the skill you learned on day 1, you could do better if you were to re-learn it again now. Every time you learn something new, you have to re-calibrate, compensate, or just completely relearn the things you learned before.

As you get better, the skills you have accumulated up until that point might not cut it. You can't be afraid of wasting time, otherwise you won't change the things that need to be changed again, and again, and then you'll have wasted the most time being stuck at the same level for years. The one thing that's always stuck with me personally is that humans have not evolved to play pool. Pool should not something that we can do naturally. What you feel is natural and comfortable, are the skills of a shitty pool player.

My biggest pet peeve is when my friends tell me they want to get good at pool, and I look at how they shoot the ball and tell them to adjust something like say their bridge. Maybe their bridge is unstable and wobbly. I will usually show them a basic open bridge just to get started. The response is usually along the lines of "that feels so weird, I don't like it" Five seconds later they give up and go back to doing it their way saying it's more comfortable. And that's just me trying to give them a bridge.

There's too much about pool for anyone person to teach anyone else. You need to actively try and soak up knowledge any way you can on and off the table. It should be your baseline. When you get get bored you should find yourself ignoring work because you got lost in this pool article or video or chapter.

Just because you can't get table time, doesn't mean you shouldn't be practicing. There was a point where I practiced landing, and stroke drills every night on my computer table with a coke bottle and a line of electric tape across the table. Get a pool game app on your phone so you can learn how a ball rolls or travels along the tangent line (pool game physics aren't perfect, but it's something). Practice your breathing patterns for both when you're on tilt and when you're down on the shot.

I think getting good at pool is less about learning to be good at something, but it's more about learning who you are as a person both on and off the table. The reason I play pool, is because I'm an over-analytic stressful worrier. Pool is a tool for me to focus on just letting go and living in the now. When I'm playing pool my biggest goal is to be completely committed to that one moment, that one shot, that one release of breath.

Either you're a complete natural, or you'll get there after 30+ years of ball-banging (maybe), or you obsess over it.

Also I'm not an A player, I've only started in october and I've only had maybe like 8 ERO's in that entire time. I've been practicing for 6-8 hours a day 4-6 times a week for 9-ish months and I feel like it'll take me at least another year to be an A-player just in 8-ball.

 

[tonythetiger583]

Another thing is be a good sport. I find it appalling the players in my A-league have almost zero composure. They throw their stick when they miss or bang it on the table. We're in a freaking bar-league. I don't care if you're an A-player or not, you are nowhere near good enough to feel that cheated when you miss. I also hate when they actively cheer for their opponent to get a shitty roll. If you aren't hoping to God that BOTH of you bring your best game to the table and doing everything in your power to encourage that, I don't understand the point of even playing at all. I understand if your house is on the line but I'm not much of a gambling man.

 

[BasementDweller]

[...]
The one thing that's always stuck with me personally is that humans have not evolved to play pool. Pool should not something that we can do naturally. What you feel is natural and comfortable, are the skills of a shitty pool player.
[...]

Love that quote. That's good stuff and so very true.

When the general public is asked what the most difficult thing in all of the sporting world is to do they will typically respond with hitting a baseball from a Major League pitcher or some such thing. They may be right but what I've always found interesting is if you give just about anybody a baseball bat they will instinctively know how to swing it. Same thing goes for a golf club. Now they might not be very good at either but they don't hesitate to take a swing at it. It might require more time to get decent at golf but from the moment most people pick up a golf club they feel like they can at least whack the stupid ball.

Pool is different. There's nothing natural about it. I think that has always been a factor when it comes to getting more people to play it.

Now back to the thread...

 

[naji]

It's
Practice is where we engage our mind and demand certain things out of our body. We work on stroking straighter, staying down longer, finishing our delivery just so, and these sorts of things. But the part that we don't talk about as much is how we take this practice and turn it into a mindless action -- a game that is completely played at the subconscious level? How do we transform our practice game into our everyday game? For me, I think this is where all the countless hours of mindless pool playing comes into play.
.

It is impossible to play pool with subconscious, subconscious is reserved for saving life actions and feeling control only nothing else (you are born with it), doing instinct things, not playing pool. Example, if a baseball heading your way, you sub makes you go away, or close your eyes, if a bite stuck in throat , you sub will make you cough, if you see a pool shark you run away! :wink:

Pool requires all the conscious brain power available to execute a shot. Say CB near a rail and cue is jacked up and need to put RH english, where do you aim! requires thinking otherwise you will miss, !.

After a while pool check list to execute a shot becomes quick and gets fetched quickly, and muscle memory ensure stroke crispness and speed.

 

[BasementDweller]

It is impossible to play pool with subconscious, subconscious is reserved for saving life actions and feeling control only nothing else (you are born with it), doing instinct things, not playing pool. Example, if a baseball heading your way, you sub makes you go away, or close your eyes, if a bite stuck in throat , you sub will make you cough, if you see a pool shark you run away! :wink:

Pool requires all the conscious brain power available to execute a shot. Say CB near a rail and cue is jacked up and need to put RH english, where do you aim! requires thinking otherwise you will miss, !.

After a while pool check list to execute a shot becomes quick and gets fetched quickly, and muscle memory ensure stroke crispness and speed.

Merriem-Webster defines it as follows:

subconscious:
existing in the part of the mind that a person is not aware of : existing in the mind but not consciously known or felt

It has nothing to do with whether or not the action is instinctual or not.

It's no different than driving a car. I just drove home from work without consciously thinking about any of it. That's ultimately how I want to play pool.

It's that simple really.

 

[jburkm002]

Maybe you could make your practice time like a body workout.
15 minutes shot making
15 minutes draw shots
15 follow through
15 stop shots
Next day
15 minutes kick shots
15 minutes shoot all shots with a bridge
15 minutes safety shots
15 minutes shooting left handed

Mix it up some. Add breaking and jumping in. If you have someone to practice with make up silly games like banks, kicks and safeties. Drills are great but there are so many aspects of pool it's mind blowing. Find a way to mix in as many aspects as you can and have fun with it. You will find 100 different answers on how to get better. You have to find what works for you but you need to reinforce all aspects of the game.

 

[naji]

Merriem-Webster defines it as follows:

subconscious:
existing in the part of the mind that a person is not aware of : existing in the mind but not consciously known or felt

It has nothing to do with whether or not the action is instinctual or not.

It's no different than driving a car. I just drove home from work without consciously thinking about any of it. That's ultimately how I want to play pool.

It's that simple really.

There is difference between habit forming and subconscious, you did stop at a traffic light, and stop sign turned left and right.
IMO pool needs complete and full mind attention. Sure easy no brained shots, just go down and shoot. Hard long shots you have to think.