Jumping: Yes or No

Is the game better without jumping?

  • Total voters
    110
jason said:
I agree jumping is a skill, but I think it is a lot easier to master than kicking. Basically, you only have to master one shot in jumping.
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Hopefully I can agree, and disagree with you.:boring2: Think Jumping is more than one skill, as some can Jump a Ball with in an Inch or Two of a Ball to be Jumped. Others can DRAW JUMP with great skill. Think Jumping is a bit more than a Single Skill.:wave2:
 
CocoboloCowboy said:
Hopefully I can agree, and disagree with you.:boring2: Think Jumping is more than one skill, as some can Jump a Ball with in an Inch or Two of a Ball to be Jumped. Others can DRAW JUMP with great skill. Think Jumping is a bit more than a Single Skill.:wave2:
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Agreed. Jumping ball very close is difficult to do and probably impossible with a full stick. Larry Nevel's 1mm jump shot is wicked. I'm pretty sure he only used the shaft, but it is still wicked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8rvRHZ1sZo
 
everyone is always talking about how we can make pool more mainstream. Allowing jumping with jump cues is a good start. Its exciting to watch a player jump and then make the shot with shape on their next shot. So go ahead and outlaw jumping and jump cues, but only if you want the game to suffer. JMHO.

Ben
 
BPG24 said:
This is definitely not true!!

I can jump just fine and still wish it was outlawed. It takes away from the strategy of the game for one thing. There are other reasons as well, if you need to know them check the 500 other threads about jumping to find out.
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I stand corrected.... :o :o :o

What I meant was that most in my personal experience the folks that complain about jump shots are the ones that can NOT jump or haven't learned the skill. It was not meant as a blanket statement.

So if the jump shot is allowed in the specific game rules then there should be no problem/complaint. If the rules say you must use a full cue to jump then that is what applies. If the jump shot is no longer allowed then that is alright too. I will play a jump shot in 9-ball and 8-ball. I will not play a jump shot in Banks, Straight pool, or One pocket.

Right now in BCA rules there is specification that says the minimum length of a cue is 40 inches. Other specifications for equipment as well of course (maximum weight, tip size, etc). Of course I use a stealth jump cue where the full length is 50 inches. Who cares???? Now let's say someone pulls out just the shaft to jump with. I'd be all over them because they have broken the rules.....

My point is if the rules allow it then it should be considered a part of the sport whether you like it or not.:grinning-moose: :grinning-moose: :grinning-moose: :grinning-moose:
 
jason said:
Agreed. Jumping ball very close is difficult to do and probably impossible with a full stick. Larry Nevel's 1mm jump shot is wicked. I'm pretty sure he only used the shaft, but it is still wicked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S8rvRHZ1sZo
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Earl Strickland is probably the only pool player I know that jumped with a regular cue with accuracy. Even though he probably couldn't jump the balls if the ball he was jumping was too close to the cue ball, he could jump half balls reasonable well. I don't like the jump cue, but you gotta love pool players jumping with a regular cue. Takes a lot of skill to do so.
 
asbani said:
I'd love if they ban the short sticks from the game completley. If you want to jump? USe your regular cue. and if you hit it or make it, then I'll clap for you!

It kills me when they use short sticks and hit the ball everytime, then I think "Why would i snooker them?" It's just too easy to jump with short sticks, Nobody kicks now adays too, which is bad.
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Maybe you should be thinking " I need to snooker them better" or "I'll need to freeze to that ball so they can't jump it" In other words you need to rethink your safeties.;)
 
mooseman said:
I stand corrected.... :o :o :o

What I meant was that most in my personal experience the folks that complain about jump shots are the ones that can NOT jump or haven't learned the skill. It was not meant as a blanket statement.

So if the jump shot is allowed in the specific game rules then there should be no problem/complaint. If the rules say you must use a full cue to jump then that is what applies. If the jump shot is no longer allowed then that is alright too. I will play a jump shot in 9-ball and 8-ball. I will not play a jump shot in Banks, Straight pool, or One pocket.

Right now in BCA rules there is specification that says the minimum length of a cue is 40 inches. Other specifications for equipment as well of course (maximum weight, tip size, etc). Of course I use a stealth jump cue where the full length is 50 inches. Who cares???? Now let's say someone pulls out just the shaft to jump with. I'd be all over them because they have broken the rules.....

My point is if the rules allow it then it should be considered a part of the sport whether you like it or not.:grinning-moose: :grinning-moose: :grinning-moose: :grinning-moose:
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Rep for a great response.. :thumbup:

Besides, if I really don't want you to jump, I will run out or freeze you to a ball. Then I have nothing to gripe about
 
I don't think you'll ever see a banning of jump shots. Rules would have to be written about a ball leaving the table top and then that would start contradicting other rules.

I'm all for the full cue jump since I can do it myself. It's actually not all that difficult once you learn how to do it. I would be okay with banning the short stick to force a little more kicking in the game. All of these jokers running around with short sticks is probably why I see a little more tearing in the cloth these days.

House rules are a different matter. If you are playing in a tournament or league at a pool hall that bans jump shots, then you have to respect that.
 
Most posters on AZ are too young to have played two shot roll out 9 ball. For those that don't know what that is: At any time during a game, a player could roll out anywhere on the table without fouling. The incoming player had the option to take the shot or give it back to the other player.

Hence, safety play and jumping were a very small part of the game compared to today's one foul 9 ball since a player could roll out whenever they wanted.

At the beginning of the transition from two shot roll out to one foul 9 ball, someone figured out real quick about shaft jumping since no cuemaker had developed a designated jump cue.

Then, the powers that be made shaft jumping illegal and the race was on for development of the designated jump cue.

My first jump cue was one of those 4 piece Taiwanese POS with a brass ferrule and screw on tip. When the screw on tip blew off, I filled the screw hole up and put on a hard leather tip which I beat down with a hammer. LOL

Pretty simple. When the rules to the game change as the accepted standard, the equipment evolves to encompass the new rules.

Jumping the ball, IMO, is a highly developed skill (being able to jump with any english or jump/masse) which takes a long time to master.

I only have one rule: I don't care what rules we play by, just as long as everyone is playing by the SAME RULES.

Stones
 
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Very close on the results. Seems like it could go either way.

Just think of all the beautiful masse and kick shots we will never see because the better shot is the jump. I guess that why we have trick shot competitions.
 
jason said:
Very close on the results. Seems like it could go either way.

Just think of all the beautiful masse and kick shots we will never see because the better shot is the jump. I guess that why we have trick shot competitions.
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There is a place for all these great shots, just more weapons to choose from.
Jumping should probably be the last resort.
I would ban phenolic tips before the "short" cue.
 
Nine Ball said:
In my experiences with this conversation, It's mainly the ones who can't jump or do not jump very well at all that say this. No offense..

What year was the game created? and what year are we in now? Nothing stays the same.. Roll with the changes. :grin:
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Couldnt agree more... short stick full cue whatever. If you can do it, go for it.
 
Icon of Sin said:
Couldnt agree more... short stick full cue whatever. If you can do it, go for it.
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being self-critical to a fault, I sometimes feel sheepish using my jump cue because I know damn well I can't jump with my playing cue. Very, very few people can. I only know a couple!

That said, I'm ok at kicking, too, and I choose whichever is going to produce the best results.
 
jason said:
I think the game is better without allowing jump shots.

I believe the game is better because the shots are more dynamic, creative, and frankly a lot harder to master.
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Jumping has less variables than kicking, thus making it easier to master. That is, between tables, there are more things to consider to get a kick right (that is, things outside the player's control) including: size of table, speed/type of cloth, how the rails react, humidity, speed, english, distance the cue ball travels, loss of english after contact with a rail, etc. etc. For a jump shot, once you learn how to stroke it, the variables to consider fall dramatically (speed/type of cloth seems to be about it, maybe 1 or 2 more, but clearly many less than a kick).

Thus, jumping may be easier to execute, but this necessariliy means that jumping is less prone to factors outside a players sphere of influence. It is the latter reason that many people choose jumps over kicks - which is the same reason many people also prefer cutting instead of banking -> there are fewer things to go wrong, thereby improving the chances of success.

Further, I have not heard any sound reasoning for limiting the tools that a player has available in any particular game. That is, there are no public safety issue, player safety issues, cost issues, sponsorship issues, stigma issue, etc. The only arguments to date have been subjective and historical.

IMO:
- Anyone can use (or not use) jump shots to their advantage.
- The playing field is still level.
- There are no safety concerns.
- So, why is there even any discussion about banning one of pool's specialty shots?

Maybe I missed something in another thread...

-td
 
I'm fine with a full length cue jump. There are many shots where a jump shot can be used for position and not just to get over an interferring ball. You can also play shots to make your object ball jump to get past interferring balls.

There was a "How do you Play this" type post within the past year that showed some of these shots but i couldn't find them before my patience ran out :smile:
 
WWWD? (What would Willie do?)...

I'm not sure which way I lean on this issue. I kick most of the time, but that's because my jump shot isn't very good. It isn't very good because I don't practice it as much. The main reason I don't practice it is because I play at pool halls who frown on that sort of thing (yes, even if you jump the ball properly).

As far as which one is harder, well I'm on the fence there too. On the one hand, I think kick shots must be harder, because given a situation where one has a choice, most pros I have seen, shoot a jump shot as opposed to a kick. So the jump must be easier, right?

On the other hand, I think jump shots must be harder to master because who ever heard of a special "kick cue"?

I am not sure banning jump cues is a good idea. If you are not allowed a special cue to "jump" with, then you probably shouldn't be allowed a special cue to "break" with either. That seems a bit hypocritical. Though one way to rid the game of the short jump cue is to tighten up the specifications of the cue itself. But, then again, technology would eventually find a way around that.

In conclusion, I think we should do what I normally do in a situation where I am unsure of the best course of action. Do nothing at all. The game works as it is. Let's leave well enough alone. For once.

Plus, that's what Willie would do...
 
just thinking about this but if you look at the cue market, i can't see any sanctioning body alienating the cue makers who probably make a descent amount off of jump cues.

Not familiar with leagues that might ban jump cues other then APA, but even in APA you can still use a JB cue without breaking it down.

Money is a driving force in any rules that are gonna be made and i don't see any way that jumping would ever be taken away.
 
I voted for the jump, all sports have evolved, shots are possible in golf now that were not possible in the past due to improved equipment, same goes for tennis, bowling and a ton of other sports.

Why don't we all shoot with house cues? obviously a custom cue gives you an advantage players did not have many years ago.

Equipment improves, games change, go with it.

I personally do not own a short jumper but I think they should be allowed.
 
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