Junior Nationals changing break rules, bad idea for kids IMHO

[hang-the-9]

Seems the WPA rules have changed for 9 ball, and the Junior Nationals went to 9 on the spot and 3 point rule (balls made and balls crossing the head string adds up to 3).

Anyone think this is actually a good idea for the kids?

I have been around Junior Nationals for 5 years and junior players in general for 10 years, ever since my son started playing and competing with kids his age. 90% of the breaks done by the younger kids will be illegal and lead to a lot of unhappy and frustrated kids. They expect 10, 11, 12 year olds, especially girls, to break hard enough to meet the break rules. I do not think that is happening. 9 ball on the spot and 3 balls past the line is a bad combination even for the pro players, never mind kids that vary widely in skill at Nationals. Sure the top juniors can break well, but that is maybe one fourth of the field. There will be more scratches off the break also since you now need to power the break past normal speeds for a hard break and lose control of the cueball with a cut break to make the 1 in the side.

http://billiardeducation.org/new-break-and-rack-format/
"New Break and Rack Format
There have been two significant changes in the World Standardized Rules of Billiards, as set by the
World-Pool Billiard Association that will affect us moving forward in competition this year.

These rules went into effect on 01 January 2017 and will be used at the 2017 Junior World 9-Ball
Championships, as well as the 2017 BEF Junior National 9-Ball Championships. The Billiard Education
Foundation strongly urges you to implement these rule changes at your events to assist your players in
preparing for higher level competition."

 

[BRussell]

90% of the breaks done by the younger kids will be illegal and lead to a lot of unhappy and frustrated kids.

If that 90% is true then yes that would be bad. I really doubt it is true though.

But if it's 50-50, that's perfect, right? Young kids aren't getting lots of break and runs, so both players will get to the table in most games anyway.

 

[hang-the-9]

If that 90% is true then yes that would be bad. I really doubt it is true though.

But if it's 50-50, that's perfect, right? Young kids aren't getting lots of break and runs, so both players will get to the table in most games anyway.

The younger kids have issues getting balls past the side pockets, never mind the headstring. Combine that with the 9 on the spot to the corner balls no longer go in on a good break and you have a combination of some sad kids. Even if they are half legal breaks, imagine how a 12 year old feels when they made a ball and then are told they can't keep shooting?

I'm all for making the 9 ball break more of a skill shot, no soft breaks, no wired ball, but at the pro level. And within reason. I have seen many good hard breaks where a ball was made come out to be illegal because of some random ball travel. Make it 2 balls past the headstring or 3 past the side pocket, or even 4 past the side. Or just make all pro events 10 ball.

 

[KRJ]

First, it seems they want the rules implemented so they are prepared for "higher competition" in the future? Hey, most of these kids are NOT turning pro, lets be honest, so why do kids need the same rules as pro's? Can't some kids just enjoy playing without the need or pressure that they need or are expected to become world champions or get a college scholarship ?

Baseball, there are numerous rules not utilized by "kids". Infield fly rule, dropped 3rd strike, no stealing home, no lead offs, no "fake" bunts, etc, etc. Not to mention the field is smaller, the bases and the mound are closer.

The logic is to keep it simple and enjoy the game. If the kids that stay long enough to play Colt league (HS level) then they obvious can handle some new rules to learn, and adapt. But, no reason to try and learn every thing and mirror the "pro's" from such an early age. Making rules more complicated is not better but more discouraging to many kids.

So, I'm in the KISS theory after coaching baseball for several decades.

And by the way, are break and runs and 9b on the break such a problem in Junior's all of sudden?

 

[skip100]

Unless there has been an epidemic of intentional soft breaks and packages run at the junior nationals then this seems like a counterproductive rule.

 

[garczar]

If that 90% is true then yes that would be bad. I really doubt it is true though.

But if it's 50-50, that's perfect, right? Young kids aren't getting lots of break and runs, so both players will get to the table in most games anyway.

90% is way off. You watch these kids play? They flat-out smack the break. The 3point-rule will barely affect play, imo. B&R numbers might change some but not a lot.

 

[marek]

Seems the WPA rules have changed for 9 ball, and the Junior Nationals went to 9 on the spot and 3 point rule (balls made and balls crossing the head string adds up to 3).

Anyone think this is actually a good idea for the kids?

I have been around Junior Nationals for 5 years and junior players in general for 10 years, ever since my son started playing and competing with kids his age. 90% of the breaks done by the younger kids will be illegal and lead to a lot of unhappy and frustrated kids. They expect 10, 11, 12 year olds, especially girls, to break hard enough to meet the break rules. I do not think that is happening. 9 ball on the spot and 3 balls past the line is a bad combination even for the pro players, never mind kids that vary widely in skill at Nationals. Sure the top juniors can break well, but that is maybe one fourth of the field. There will be more scratches off the break also since you now need to power the break past normal speeds for a hard break and lose control of the cueball with a cut break to make the 1 in the side.

http://billiardeducation.org/new-break-and-rack-format/
"New Break and Rack Format
There have been two significant changes in the World Standardized Rules of Billiards, as set by the
World-Pool Billiard Association that will affect us moving forward in competition this year.

These rules went into effect on 01 January 2017 and will be used at the 2017 Junior World 9-Ball
Championships, as well as the 2017 BEF Junior National 9-Ball Championships. The Billiard Education
Foundation strongly urges you to implement these rule changes at your events to assist your players in
preparing for higher level competition."

Well you are bit misinformed. WPA made the change of 9ball break (9 on the spot) to REGULATIONS (not rules) in May 2016 (+- 1 month) to test it for the period of 1 year. At the end of June this year WPA announced that this regulation was reviewed and was unanimously voted by WPA board that 1 is to be on the spot effective after World Games. So your Junior Nationals will follow the regulation which is no longer in effect...job "well" done:thumbup:

 

[wrickyb]

If they win here and go to the World Championship or get selected for the Atlantic Challenge Cup That will be the break format. So they need to see more of it to improve.

 

[hang-the-9]

90% is way off. You watch these kids play? They flat-out smack the break. The 3point-rule will barely affect play, imo. B&R numbers might change some but not a lot.

Who exactly have you been watching? The top 10 kids in the older bracket? I have been at the Nationals last 5 years and go to our local junior league every weekend, along with vising a few other local leagues in the state. I know that there will be issues with illegal breaks, especially for the younger kids. There are very very few break and runs done at Jr Nationals aside from the top few players in each bracket.

This break rule will make it harder on the top 25% of the field, and be really annoying for the rest.

We are talking the US juniors not world wide. The top level will be OK with this, aside form probably less balls made and more scratches with less position on the lowest ball, the rest, even the older kids at lower levels, will have issues here unless they just wail on the ball at full strength which is not what pool is about.

 

[hang-the-9]

If they win here and go to the World Championship or get selected for the Atlantic Challenge Cup That will be the break format. So they need to see more of it to improve.

Sure, at the top level. The top kids already practice this break on their own, and a few matches during 3-4 days will not help them any. But it will hinder most of the rest of the field.

As I said, it's a decent rule for pro players to keep them from soft breaking and/or making the corner ball with a tight rack, but not for amateur players.

 

[hang-the-9]

Well you are bit misinformed. WPA made the change of 9ball break (9 on the spot) to REGULATIONS (not rules) in May 2016 (+- 1 month) to test it for the period of 1 year. At the end of June this year WPA announced that this regulation was reviewed and was unanimously voted by WPA board that 1 is to be on the spot effective after World Games. So your Junior Nationals will follow the regulation which is no longer in effect...job "well" done:thumbup:

Must be the speed of information to get across the ocean. By the time the horse got the note to the ship and the ship crossed the big water and the train got the note to BEF, it was too late :smile:

 

[marek]

Must be the speed of information to get across the ocean. By the time the horse got the note to the ship and the ship crossed the big water and the train got the note to BEF, it was too late :smile:

Exactly:thumbup: or maybe it is just too far from Quatar where WPA has its seat as of now..