Just an idea!!!

Snapshot9

son of 3 leg 1 eye dog ..
Silver Member
That we start a group or association of AZB'rs to get 'Professional' independent opinions and ratings of billiards products.

I would suggest the following to do the evaluations:
1) 2 Professional players
2) 1 Master Instructor
Different Pros and Instructor can be used for different categories.
(For example, Larry Nevel would certainly be a good choice to
evaluate Break/Jump cues while another pro might be better suited
to evaluate different shafts)

The group or association would be responsible for procuring the evaluators.
AZ members would pay the evaluation fees. There are over 8,000 members of AZB, so raising $600 to pay for 3 independent evaluations should not be that much of a problem. I certainly would contribute $5-20
for a product category evaluation that is reliable.


They would rank the products from 1 to 10 with 2 decimal places. Additional comments as provided. The group or association would be responsible for evaluation forms needed.

Members of AZB would chip in to pay for the evaluations.
The products would not be more than 6 for any one category.
Responsibility for getting the products to the evaluators would be the
responsibility of the group or association of AZB's.

Initial suggested products for evaluation:
1) Shafts
2) Break and/or Break/Jump cues.

My suggestion for payment for the evaluations:
$200 per evaluation per evaluator per category (6 products max.)

The forms themselves could be kept by a secretary of the group or association, and responsible for posting the evaluations per category into
a new subforum on AZB for all members of AZB, date oriented. The secretary would be responsible for any statistics and overall averages
of the evaluations.

I am not saying we are going to evaluate everything, just a few important categories that truly impact a player's game. And, if, by chance, we got something like chalk evaluated, for instance, then the fee would be commensurate with the category, and not the $200 per.

New products that fall into an evaluated category could be evaluated independently, at a reduced rate of course, and added to the original evaluation of the category. The determination for this would be by a majority of the group or association. The same evaluators, once chosen, would have to be maintained for a category. The secretary of the group or association would be responsible for sending copies of the previous products evaluations to the evaluator, so the evaluator can rank the new product into the proper place with the previous products.

The treasurer for the group or association could start an association Paypal account to which AZB'rs could pay into for evaluations of a category, and be responsible for maintaining it, and for payment to the
evaluators.

This is just off the top of my head, and probably need refining some, but
I feel it could work. Like I said, it would not be overused by any means, but if you are considering shafts or a new Break/Jump Cue, wouldn't you pay $5-10 to have a good independent evaluation that was reliable before you bought? I know I would.
 
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Snapshot9 said:
That we start a group or association of AZB'rs to get 'Professional' independent opinions and ratings of billiards products.

I would suggest the following to do the evaluations:
1) 2 Professional players
2) 1 Master Instructor
Different Pros and Instructor can be used for different categories.
(For example, Larry Nevel would certainly be a good choice to
evaluate Break/Jump cues while another pro might be better suited
to evaluate different shafts)

The group or association would be responsible for procuring the evaluators.
AZ members would pay the evaluation fees. There are over 8,000 members of AZB, so raising $600 to pay for 3 independent evaluations should not be that much of a problem. I certainly would contribute $5-20
for a product category evaluation that is reliable.


They would rank the products from 1 to 10 with 2 decimal places. Additional comments as provided. The group or association would be responsible for evaluation forms needed.

Members of AZB would chip in to pay for the evaluations.
The products would not be more than 6 for any one category.
Responsibility for getting the products to the evaluators would be the
responsibility of the group or association of AZB's.

Initial suggested products for evaluation:
1) Shafts
2) Break and/or Break/Jump cues.

My suggestion for payment for the evaluations:
$200 per evaluation per evaluator per category (6 products max.)

The forms themselves could be kept by a secretary of the group or association, and responsible for posting the evaluations per category into
a new subforum on AZB for all members of AZB, date oriented. The secretary would be responsible for any statistics and overall averages
of the evaluations.

I am not saying we are going to evaluate everything, just a few important categories that truly impact a player's game. And, if, by chance, we got something like chalk evaluated, for instance, then the fee would be commensurate with the category, and not the $200 per.

New products that fall into an evaluated category could be evaluated independently, at a reduced rate of course, and added to the original evaluation of the category. The determination for this would be by a majority of the group or association. The same evaluators, once chosen, would have to be maintained for a category. The secretary of the group or association would be responsible for sending copies of the previous products evaluations to the evaluator, so the evaluator can rank the new product into the proper place with the previous products.

The treasurer for the group or association could start an association Paypal account to which AZB'rs could pay into for evaluations of a category, and be responsible for maintaining it, and for payment to the
evaluators.

This is just off the top of my head, and probably need refining some, but
I feel it could work. Like I said, it would not be overused by any means, but if you are considering shafts or a new Break/Jump Cue, wouldn't you pay $5-10 to have a good independent evaluation that was reliable before you bought? I know I would.

A good independent evaluation would also mean purchasing the products for testing and not accepting free merchandise.

On the surface it sounds like a decent idea. If the merchandise is purchased, it can be sold so it's not like we would be out of the purchase price as well as the evaluation cost. I think since pro players and "Master" Instructors would be the evaluators, you have to determine if there are enough of those people who would want to become evaluators for AZ. I would also assume that we could purchase merchandise at dealer cost rather than at retail prices or even Internet prices making for lower than normal procurement costs.

This idea needs to sit out here for a while and be discussed to determine if it is practical. I like the idea of a AZ/Consumer's Report of Billiard Products or AZ/Consumer's Digest of Billiard Products. :D
JoeyA
 
Snapshot9 said:
That we start a group or association of AZB'rs to get 'Professional' independent opinions and ratings of billiards products.
...
The BCA Instructor program has a product endorsement program. It is aimed at instructional products. It seems that only four products have received endorsements to date. See http://www.bca-pool.com/play/instruction/seal.shtml

Basically, the manufacturer sends $500 and 10 copies of the product to the BCA which distributes the products to 10 instructors or academies for evaluation.
 
Consumer Guide...

Snapshot9 said:
That we start a group or association of AZB'rs to get 'Professional' independent opinions and ratings of billiards products.

I would suggest the following to do the evaluations:
1) 2 Professional players
2) 1 Master Instructor
Different Pros and Instructor can be used for different categories.
(For example, Larry Nevel would certainly be a good choice to
evaluate Break/Jump cues while another pro might be better suited
to evaluate different shafts)

The group or association would be responsible for procuring the evaluators.
AZ members would pay the evaluation fees. There are over 8,000 members of AZB, so raising $600 to pay for 3 independent evaluations should not be that much of a problem. I certainly would contribute $5-20
for a product category evaluation that is reliable.


They would rank the products from 1 to 10 with 2 decimal places. Additional comments as provided. The group or association would be responsible for evaluation forms needed.

Members of AZB would chip in to pay for the evaluations.
The products would not be more than 6 for any one category.
Responsibility for getting the products to the evaluators would be the
responsibility of the group or association of AZB's.

Initial suggested products for evaluation:
1) Shafts
2) Break and/or Break/Jump cues.

My suggestion for payment for the evaluations:
$200 per evaluation per evaluator per category (6 products max.)

The forms themselves could be kept by a secretary of the group or association, and responsible for posting the evaluations per category into
a new subforum on AZB for all members of AZB, date oriented. The secretary would be responsible for any statistics and overall averages
of the evaluations.

I am not saying we are going to evaluate everything, just a few important categories that truly impact a player's game. And, if, by chance, we got something like chalk evaluated, for instance, then the fee would be commensurate with the category, and not the $200 per.

New products that fall into an evaluated category could be evaluated independently, at a reduced rate of course, and added to the original evaluation of the category. The determination for this would be by a majority of the group or association. The same evaluators, once chosen, would have to be maintained for a category. The secretary of the group or association would be responsible for sending copies of the previous products evaluations to the evaluator, so the evaluator can rank the new product into the proper place with the previous products.

The treasurer for the group or association could start an association Paypal account to which AZB'rs could pay into for evaluations of a category, and be responsible for maintaining it, and for payment to the
evaluators.

This is just off the top of my head, and probably need refining some, but
I feel it could work. Like I said, it would not be overused by any means, but if you are considering shafts or a new Break/Jump Cue, wouldn't you pay $5-10 to have a good independent evaluation that was reliable before you bought? I know I would.


Good idea. It could be structured like consumer reports.

Bad News..........There are a lot of great ideas that never materialize because of one key ingredient that is missing........action. Put your idea into action and you are ahead of 99%.

Good luck on a great idea!

Ray

ps. I'll take a subscription as soon as it's ready.
 
PKM said:
Anyone have experience with these four products? Are they worthy of this elite status?
I collect billiard books so I have both of the books on the list. I note that the site for the Billiard Workbook seems to be invalid. Leveck has a web site. Send email to me at AZ_bob@sfbilliards.com for further info.
 
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I can only vouch for one of the products

I have one of the "pro model" Buddy Hall cue guides, and it
helped me a while back to straighten my stroke. I don't know
what is on the DVDs though, as I do not own them.

I consider it one of the best purchases I ever made. If I remember
correctly, about 15 years ago the earlier one was made of wood.
 
Here are my thoughts on this

Pros can evaluate equipment and give great feedback from a Pro's perspective, but it is not necessarily the best advice for your average player.

Exaggerated Example (but similar concept): If Tiger Woods were to evaluate a set of irons...he may determine that a specific set provides great feedback and ball workability...however your average golfer would get absolutely no use from that information because the irons that he is evaluating is a forged set that you have to hit exactly on the screws for the ball to go anywhere.

A 10 handicap’s feedback on the same irons may be more valuable to a greater amount of players since he will likely say that "if you hit them on the screws they are great" but a slight miss hit rattles your bones and you lose 30 yards on the shot.

As they do in Golf, an evaluator from each skill level uses the same club to provide feedback....As a shopper; you will match up with your same skill level to determine what might be the best club for you

Also,

I don't think AZBrs should be paying anything....I think AZBrs have just about the best sample of skill levels you can find....I think if organized correctly, the manufactures of cues and equipment would donate equipment for testing and evaluation and comparison.....actually AZBrs could build a reputation as an evaluation agency and once recognized and followed by the masses, AZBrs could charge for the service and gained recognition of quality products.....

How about an annual review magazine....

I would pitch in and be involved in a venture like that.

I won't pay money just to get a Pro's evaluation of a Break Stick. (Especially a Pro that’s break style is one I would never be able to emulate)

JMO
 
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