Just dreaming

The Piper

The Piper

Get Ugly...
Silver Member
I got into a conversation with a friend recently about what it would take to revitalize pool. Or to lift it to new heights. IMO I'm thinking an actually gargantuan tournament would. Similar to Poker.

Imagine a 10k buy in, where the money actually went back to the players. Top 50 places pay out, and with a first place prize in the millions. A ton of small satellite tournaments with the first place being a buy in into the big tournament. I think that could change pool like it changed poker.


What is your thoughts? What is needed to change the game and to get it on the level of poker/golf? This was also partially inspired by the Earl Strickland story interview I saw on youtube. Has it been tried?
 
I don't feel one more big tournament will make a difference.
Pool needs a tour ( like the IPT ) where a LOT of players could make a living.
Pool in North America would then produce great players and take the
game to new heights....like where snooker has gone.
 
Interesting. 10k buy in from the get go is a bit steep I think. Depends on what you're aiming for. If you want more players, I'd suggest starting lower, such as maybe 3-5k buy in or perhaps even less, maybe as low as 2k. You'll get many more players, amateurs included that will take a shot at it for that buy in range. 10k, with the possibility of running into SVB, Orcullo, Efren, or whomever in the first round will keep your numbers low. Unlike poker where everyone starts with the same chance of drawing good/bad cards, in billiards it's already tilted in favor of the pros. You want the amateurs to help fill out a large field, but you have to find a balance on what they would spend. There are some strong players here in the Atlanta area which is a large metro area and I can't think of too many that have the financial resources to lay down 10k to enter it, even thru a $500 or so entry satellite tourney. Just depends on your goals. At 2k, with many, many entries to supplement the prize fund, I can't think of any pros that wouldn't enter. Add several hundred amateurs and you still have a whopping purse.
 
Cart before the horse.

The million-dollar purses in golf are because there are multi-millions of viewers watching the match. The viewers aren't watching it because there's a big prize; most would watch the Masters even if there was no money involved.
 
The Piper said:
I got into a conversation with a friend recently about what it would take to revitalize pool. Or to lift it to new heights. IMO I'm thinking an actually gargantuan tournament would. Similar to Poker.

Imagine a 10k buy in, where the money actually went back to the players. Top 50 places pay out, and with a first place prize in the millions. A ton of small satellite tournaments with the first place being a buy in into the big tournament. I think that could change pool like it changed poker.


What is your thoughts? What is needed to change the game and to get it on the level of poker/golf? This was also partially inspired by the Earl Strickland story interview I saw on youtube. Has it been tried?
Click to expand...

Using your numbers, in order to pay 50 places with the top prize being in the millions, and a $10k entry fee, you would probably need a minimum of 200 entrants.

With no added monies, I'm almost certain that you would not get the needed number of participants. The US open is probably the closest example. The entry is 1000 (this year) with 50k added (39% of the total entry fees), and they'll probably just meet their goal of having a 128 person field.

If you increased the entry fee by a factor of 10, my guess is that the field would get much smaller, unless you dramatically increased the added prize money or somehow changed to rules of the game to massively increase the randomness of the results. i.e. give some reasonably wealthy bangers who want the thrill of beating SVB or Dennis a legitimate chance.

Let's first examine the added prize money. At these levels, you would probably have to add at least $1,000,000 (50% of the total entry fees) in order for it to be meaningful. But how do we get that type of money? Corporate sponsorship is about the only sustainable way. Now, it is possible that a tourney of this magnitude -publicized properly- could generate enough interest that a Budweiser, a Party Poker, or Frito Lay might get interested....but probably a long shot....probably easier to wait for Kevin Trudeau to get out of jail.

How about increasing the randomness? Simply moving the game onto a BB, or changing some of the rules would probably not do it. You would probably have to really bastardize the game by introducing cards, dice, or other gimmicks to level the playing field. I'm not sure how this would fly.

As a fan of the game, I would love to see something like this happen...but not holding my breath.
 
The Piper said:
I got into a conversation with a friend recently about what it would take to revitalize pool. Or to lift it to new heights. IMO I'm thinking an actually gargantuan tournament would. Similar to Poker.

Imagine a 10k buy in, where the money actually went back to the players. Top 50 places pay out, and with a first place prize in the millions. A ton of small satellite tournaments with the first place being a buy in into the big tournament. I think that could change pool like it changed poker.


What is your thoughts? What is needed to change the game and to get it on the level of poker/golf? This was also partially inspired by the Earl Strickland story interview I saw on youtube. Has it been tried?
Click to expand...

Using your numbers, in order to pay 50 places with the top prize being in the millions, and a $10k entry fee, you would probably need a minimum of 200 entrants.

With no added monies, I'm almost certain that you would not get the needed number of participants. The US open is probably the closest example. The entry is 1000 (this year) with 50k added (39% of the total entry fees), and they'll probably just meet their goal of having a 128 person field.

If you increased the entry fee by a factor of 10, my guess is that the field would get much smaller, unless you dramatically increased the added prize money or somehow changed to rules of the game to massively increase the randomness of the results. i.e. give some reasonably wealthy bangers who want the thrill of beating SVB or Dennis a legitimate chance.

Let's first examine the added prize money. At these levels, you would probably have to add at least $1,000,000 (50% of the total entry fees) in order for it to be meaningful. But how do we get that type of money? Corporate sponsorship is about the only sustainable way. Now, it is possible that a tourney of this magnitude -publicized properly- could generate enough interest that a Budweiser, a Party Poker, or Frito Lay might get interested....but probably a long shot....probably easier to wait for Kevin Trudeau to get out of jail.

How about increasing the randomness? Simply moving the game onto a BB, or changing some of the rules would probably not do it. You would probably have to really bastardize the game by introducing cards, dice, or other gimmicks to level the playing field. I'm not sure how this would fly.

As a fan of the game, I would love to see something like this happen...but not holding my breath.
 
100k buy-in won't make a difference. Poker is slowly dying because all the fish have been bled dry. Pool should not take a "poker model" to gain success in the long term.

The only way pool will gain recognition is through a more friendly sport that kids can play and compete in as well as adults.

Pool is now and will always be considered a bar game, or something to do with family and friends at home.
 
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The only hope for pool in this country would most likely be associated with a league. There were rumors of a pool reality show which would be helpful for exposure. If a league pool reality show could get off the ground it could be the catalyst for a show that would bring pool to the masses. The pro scene is a disaster, if you took any of the pros and went into a mall I bet almost no one would know who they are. Leagues are the only successful venture in pool right now so it has to revolve around them somehow, JMO!!!!!!!!!!!
 
The problem is that the luck factor in Poker especially in a tournament format allows all sorts of players to make it into the money. So, players are more willing to put up the big entry fee with no added money (actually poker rakes 10% or more). The luck factor isn't as great in pool. There is a limited amount of players that will pony up 500 for a tournament entry let alone 10,000.
 
If I'm not mistaken, Allen Hopkins tried something very similar to this, and did not get near enough entries to fund the prize money at the level they had hoped for.
 
Not all of the poker people make it to the World series by coughing up the 10k or whatever it is. (I didn't analyze my numbers to make sure the prize money, it was purely an example of how big the purse would have to be.), I'm just dreaming of the local Jillians holding a 100 dollar buy in tournament with the first prize be a spot in the big scene. Again just dreaming about a way to motivate the masses to really start showing up.

An amateur would NEVER pony up their own personal 10k to play against efren, but I can think of several that would be willing to pay 50 - 100 bucks to compete in a tournament that would pay their way if they won.

Never thought about the luck factor of poker making it enticing to amateurs all over the place.

I figured people on this board would have a lot more interesting insight.
 
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