Justis Case Knockoff Design Thief Exposed

[John Barton]

if you know how jack "feels" in a situation like this, having had this situation happen to you, then why would you go ahead and import knockoffs of his case and start selling them?

Well I did not import any knockoffs of Justis's designs. And the only reason I considered it briefly has been explained countless times so far. Because of what it would have done to Jack if I did make copies of his cases and what it would have done to me is why I didn't.

What you all don't know is that I looked up to Jack. I used to run to him at shows with any sort of "custom" case I did and show it off to him. And he would show me his stuff and we would sometimes talk shop. I always wanted his approval. And Dan Whitten's too.

This is a man that I admired greatly. Sure I said something stupid in a fit of pique in a private email. But who among us has never said something in anger that went away once you calmed down?

If I had actually followed through and imported these cases then Jack would have a valid point. As it is he did not receive the answer to his question of WHO is doing the importing. And that is what he said he was looking for.

 

[John Barton]

Baseless? jbideas??
I have used this lid closure with snap design for the past 15 years. This along with the strap and pad design is also being copied right down to using the same number of rivets.

yes Jack, I stole that lid design from you. But in fairness you should concede that I gave you credit for it both here when I debuted the case and also on the website page for that case. Hardly the actions of a person trying to hide anything. If this is your proof then I exposed myself weeks ago when I debuted this case on this forum.

www.jbideas.com/rollsroyce.html

You know that even though you have in fact been using this lid design for years it's not original to you either. It has been used on countless leather cases for centuries.

Not in exactly this design but does it matter? When Talisman "took" your lid design did you complain? When Brian Bonner of Nittany Leather Goods used it did you brand him a "design thief"? When Jim Murnak used a similar lid configuration did you complain then?

Why don't you give Brunswick credit for this lid design? They used it before both of us on their leather cases. And Jay Flowers also had similar designs.

Please Jack, let's not do this. I know you are upset but it's really at the wrong guy. Even if I use some elements of your cases I doubt highly that anyone will confuse them. I am not the person who is making cases that look like yours, I am not the person who is selling them in Asia and in the USA. For you to complain about the lid is like one cuemaker to complain that another is stealing common inlays. The lid of your cases is not what make them special and all your customers know that. Your customers would buy your cases no matter what lid design you use.

Please direct your anger at the folks who ARE copying your distinctive tooling style. That is what makes a Justis unique among cases. I will alter the lid some more so that it doesn't look like yours but please don't try to stake a claim to the general design as that has been around longer than both of us.

Sincerely,

John

P.S. For reference only to those following this thread I have provided a few pictures of Talisman and Nittany Leather cases. The Talisman case has been on the market for around four to five years I think. Also one Brunswick case.

 

[Shawn Armstrong]

JB, change your name to Cris Angel.

DIVERSION! DISTRACTION! The magician's best friend.

 

[TheHole]

I have no clue why you think these are baseless accusations. He posted YOUR email (from you) to another person stating you would be bringing in the Justis knock-off cases, and he could get them from you. You even gave him your number. Perhaps you had a sleepless night, and decided it was wrong to do that, or possibly you got shot down at the other end. We don't know the entire truth. BUT, you DID send a person an email referring them to a knock off case. You called me a piece of garbage during the "knockoff X-breaker" thread, yet all I did was point a person in a direction AFTER Richard was no longer making X-breaker cues.

Intent and Action are two different things. If you got pissed at Jack, go play a rack of 10-ball to cool off. You decided to send a malicious email, intent at doing damage to Jack Justis by promoting a knock-off case. That was wrong. These weren't baseless accusations. Baseless would be referring to an email, and then never producing it.

BTW, at least Jack Justis makes his cases himself.

If you go back to the first post in this thread, you will see the person that emailed JB referred to the case inthe picture as a Copy of a Jack Justis. JB never mentionsto that emailer that this case is a Justis knockoff or copy, it is the person emailing him referring tothe case as a copy. I know sales, and if a customer wants to think a case looks like a justis and then I ain't gonna contradict him either.

 

[ScottW]

Coincidentally, I was reading a story on one of my fave nerdy-type sites, Slashdot, this morning - and there's a bit by one of their customer service guys on emails he's had to deal with over the years.

http://meta.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/10/17/2241230

There's a couple of lines in this guy's lead-in that is very apropos to this forum/thread, methinks.

As everyone knows, people are precisely 500% more rude and angry online than they are in real life. Something about not having to see the tears or dodge the fist of the person you are swearing at brings out the worst in some people.

R.I.P, Civility. We hardly knew ye.

 

[RRfireblade]

The reading comprehension of people posting in this thread is atrocious. :/

Seriously.

Probably a waste but for the sake of the dead horse , One more time :

" Justis Case Knockoff Design Thief Exposed "

" I have decided to start importing them "

" The cases shown in THIS LINK
have been available for at least four years that I know of. "

Even if John 'intended' and/or WAS importing them , they existed already , and he did not steal the design.

Case closed ?

 

[runscott]

If you go back to the first post in this thread, you will see the person that emailed JB referred to the case inthe picture as a Copy of a Jack Justis. JB never mentionsto that emailer that this case is a Justis knockoff or copy, it is the person emailing him referring tothe case as a copy. I know sales, and if a customer wants to think a case looks like a justis and then I ain't gonna contradict him either.

Lol - yeah, JB is a saint.

You guys over here have an incredible ability to rationalize. Regardless of what Fast Lenny, TheHole, etc, have to say about the inappropriateness of these posts, it's at least given us a better glimpse into JB's true character thru his responses. I'm also amazed at how many of you have jumped onto your soapboxes to announce that they deserve to be the ones to give the dead horse the last whack.

Scott <=== wants to be last

 

[RRfireblade]

Lol - yeah, JB is a saint.

You guys over here have an incredible ability to rationalize. Regardless of what Fast Lenny, TheHole, etc, have to say about the inappropriateness of these posts, it's at least given us a better glimpse into JB's true character thru his responses. I'm also amazed at how many of you have jumped onto your soapboxes to announce that they deserve to be the ones to give the dead horse the last whack.

Scott <=== wants to be last

The point is an accusation was made and shown to be false.

That was pretty much the whole point. Then as is par for the course on ALL internet forums , people use any available chance to launch full scale war based on personal opinions and agenda when they have no place in the discussion.



Jay <=== knows that no one really 'wins' an E fight.

Jay <=== Knows where both the PM and New Thread buttons are.

 

[BrooklynJay]

Even if John 'intended' and/or WAS importing them , they existed already , and he did not steal the design.

and this makes it okay? a fellow case maker, who had his own cases knocked off, in a pm indicates he's going to be carrying a knock off line of cases that look an awful lot like jack justis' work. ummm...integrity? moral compass? and especially after all the b.s. john barton spewed concerning the x-breaker knock off...

pot meet kettle.

 

[runscott]

The point is an accusation was made and shown to be false.

That was pretty much the whole point. Then as is par for the course on ALL internet forums , people use any available chance to launch full scale war based on personal opinions and agenda when they have no place in the discussion.



Jay <=== knows that no one really 'wins' an E fight.

Jay <=== Knows where both the PM and New Thread buttons are.

And, as is also par for the course in a DISCUSSION forum ('Discussion' being the key word), a few people will use a thread where they have no place in the discussion, to display their 'holier-than-thou' attitude.

Scott <=== Believes in open discussions, and the right of everyone to voice their opinions, even if the self-appointed forum policemen disagree with it.

 

[RRfireblade]

Thats even if he had done it , he has didn't.

Again , not the point. Jack claimed John stole his design and has been using it for the knock off imported case line showing up here.

John did not. Pretty much that simple. A quick look around shows that he still has not.

It's ok to not like John , alot of people don't.

 

[RRfireblade]

And, as is also par for the course in a DISCUSSION forum ('Discussion' being the key word), a few people will use a thread where they have no place in the discussion, to display their 'holier-than-thou' attitude.

Scott <=== Believes in open discussions, and the right of everyone to voice their opinions, even if the self-appointed forum policemen disagree with it.

The hypocracy is just insane , isn't it.



Nice post your eminence.

Jay <=== Owns cases by both manufactures as well as a production company commonly ripped off by asian markets.

 

[seymore15074]

Call me an idiot, but I must be missing something. You mean to tell me that someone is making a knock-off of a case, and this is bad? Please...

 

[d_flash]

WHACK !

is the horse dead yet ?........wait a minute, I think I saw him twitch again !


WHACK !

that ought to do it

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

It Moved....It Moved I Tell Ya.....THERE, It Moved AGAIN

WHACK !

is the horse dead yet ?........wait a minute, I think I saw him twitch again !


WHACK !

that ought to do it

Nope, not dead yet. I think I saw it twitch....
Doug
( or, was that the FLIES )

 

[Jack Justis]

yes Jack, I stole that lid design from you. But in fairness you should concede that I gave you credit for it both here when I debuted the case and also on the website page for that case.

Stealing something and telling everyone you stole it makes you a better thief, right???

You know that even though you have in fact been using this lid design for years it's not original to you either. It has been used on countless leather cases for centuries. Why don't you give Brunswick credit for this lid design? They used it before both of us on their leather cases.

I think it is my design and line snaps have have not been in existance for centuries. The lid strap on the Brunswick case you used as an example was put on by me a while back and was totally different than the original strap and buckle.

 

[RRfireblade]

Call me an idiot, but I must be missing something. You mean to tell me that someone is making a knock-off of a case, and this is bad? Please...

It can go both ways.

In an attempt to qualify my presence in this thread . . .

My company has offered truly unique innovative and never before seen product in our industry going back 20 years. As anyone can tell you , US manufacturing on almost any scale cannot compete with the Asian market. 20 years ago it was not as big an issue as the Asain market could not compete in quality. Back then it was very upsetting to have product show up at half your 'cost' on the market devaluing your own. Eventually tho , the quality shows it's ugly head and the exposure may actually help your business.

Today however , the import quality is quickly catching up making the differences less and less each day. In some areas or retail the consumer may even be fully aware of that difference but justify it by the difference in cost. "Yes, it's not as good but at half the price . . " Again , 2 sides form. Those who want the 'value' and those who want the real thing.

My biggest problem , and not one that applied here , is looking across my desk I see no less then a dozen 'knock offs' returned for warranty. That really sucks in all ways.

In the issue at hand here , no one buying a brand new import case for $150 on Ebay thinks he's really getting a Justis. Justis is not going to have to deal with warranty on any of them. Justic will likely , as all others like him , have to deciede to adjust pricing to gain market share lost to competition but at the number of cases he's making , I doubt he's actually go to lose any business over it.

IMO , you will see more people out there with tooled leather cases , but the same people that sought after Justis before will still be doing so.

 

[Pinocchio]

John Barton!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Well I made it through all 11 pages an as of right now I am sharpening my spear an will post later. Get ready John for a few jabs!!!!!!!!!
Pinocchio

 

[!Smorgass Bored]

How About A Blindfold And A Last Smoke (or, a DRINK)

Well I made it through all 11 pages an as of right now I am sharpening my spear an will post later. Get ready John for a few jabs!!!!!!!!!
Pinocchio

Spear ?
Just use an AXE and get it over with quickly...
Doug
( I hate to torture MY victims..... imo )

 

[runscott]

The hypocracy is just insane , isn't it.



Nice post your eminence.

Jay <=== Owns cases by both manufactures as well as a production company commonly ripped off by asian markets.

Ahhh - my apologies, I missed the flaming sword. At least you have the balls to make it clear what you are here for.