Karma is a witch (and so is the other teams captain...)

[James]

*Disclaimer. The word I'm actually looking for here is censored so rather than trick the censor, I am using the word "witch" instead of a similar word that is my intent. I hope you can figure it out *

A small story to share from APA Tuesday night. A brief explanation of myself. I play APA for fun, and I gamble and practice separately to improve my skills. I often take the game very seriously, but there are more important things in life than APA night. (A sentiment that was lost to certain people that night)

So I was playing a team that is notorious for having a witchy captain. She's a SL5 and plays well. The team actually is 6 female players and 2 males. They regularly do well in the league and the rest of them are all a joy to be around!

Anyway, I'm playing a player who I get along with quite well, and we're having a good time. Playing (relatively) good pool, but also being friendly and occasionally social.

I go to practice stroke and I am bridging a little funny due to the conditions and I tapped the cue ball. It didn't roll, but I did definitely touch it. I was probably going to miss the shot I was lining up for anyway, but nonetheless I stopped and looked up. My opponent saw it, but wanted to let me shoot anyway. Her captain goes into a rant about how "she has to do it or I'll never learn (witch), and that there is NO ONE in this league that lets you keep shooting on a foul (witch) my captain hears the commotion and comes over and they talk and she says it's a foul for sure. I say ok no problem and she shoots.

Fast forward to the next game. Keeping in mind my opponent is a higher SL than me and shoots well. I need all I can get to win this match. We get down to our last few balls and trade safeties/hard shots/timeouts, etc. It's down to the wire. She marks the pocket, misses. I play safe, etc. etc.

Finally, I screw up and she gets position. She gets down, she looks around, breathes, shoots and makes the shot. NO marker on the pocket.

I simply picked up her pocket marker from the side table and showed it to her. I said "Now if I was (your captain)... what would I do here..."

If I call the foul, I win the match.


I put her pocket marker down, I smile, and start racking.

Karma is a witch sometimes...

 

[42NateBaller]

Same thing happened to me, but more friendly

I play in a few different leagues, so I sometimes forget which rules I'm playing by that night. In the first game, I didn't mark the pocket and shot in the 8. My opponent and their team are all good sports, so they let it slide.

We've all known each other for a while and have always enjoyed good competition. I told them right off that I didn't mind taking the loss of game, because it was clearly my fault. My opponent and their entire team agreed to give me the game, because it was clear what I was doing.

Certainly a classy act on your part letting your opponent have the game despite the wicked witch of the west.

 

[Gregg]

In my area...a cue ball foul is a foul, ball in hand. Nobody has ever disputed that, not once, ever.

As far as marking the pocket...I've seen fouls called many times when the pocket is not marked, even when the pocket is obvious. A guy on our team quit because he was so upset that he lost a match shooting in the eight that was inches from the corner pocket.

What to do, if you want to avoid issues?

Follow the rules. Go by the book.

One of the very best aspects of league pool is that the rules are, for the most parts, clear and up front for all shooters. You don't find different rules for different regions, pool halls, or even the same pool hall with different shooters. Or worse of all, shooters making up rules on the fly to benefit themselves (yikes!).

 

[Cuebacca]

Dang, the lady does sound pretty nasty. I think I can picture her tone of voice when she said all that, and it doesn't sound very soothing to the ear. LOL.

I can't comment on the pocket-marking thing, because I've never played in a game where that was the rule.

But the cue ball tapping thing, I just want to say that it does make it a lot easier to stop doing it when you give up ball in hand when it happens.

I remember back when a lot of my pool was played against one particular friend who also posts here. Back then it would be common in these games (for "funsies") for me and my opponents to not call these fouls.

Well, one day this friend and I basically said, hey, let's just call those as fouls because they are technically fouls and we need to learn not to do them. Almost immediately, the occurrences decreased dramatically.

Years later, I still do it now and then, typically if I've just gotten a new tip put on. I guess my practice strokes go that close to the cue ball. LOL. But I will always insist in giving up ball-in-hand for it to make sure I am conditioned not to do it again.

 

[easy-e]

In my area...a cue ball foul is a foul, ball in hand. Nobody has ever disputed that, not once, ever.

They were not disputing it either. The other player was just being friendly.

 

[James]

They were not disputing it either. The other player was just being friendly.

Thank you for reading.

I was not arguing the foul, my opponent just felt like giving me the shot anyway because we are friendly and it's not like I was going to runout otherwise. It was not a pivotal moment in the match either way.

To put it in context, in the next game her baby was crying and I offered to let her take a minute to tend to the baby without using a timeout. She said "I would have to feed her, it'd be like 10 or 15 minutes" and I said "Go for it, I have no where to be" and I hung out for a while as she fed the baby.

And before people derail the thread *****ing about the baby being in a pool hall. It's a quiet, all ages, non-smoking place and everyone there is there for league. It's a perfectly fine environment for a child.

 

[longhair]

I go to practice stroke and I am bridging a little funny due to the conditions and I tapped the cue ball. It didn't roll, but I did definitely touch it. I was probably going to miss the shot I was lining up for anyway, but nonetheless I stopped and looked up. My opponent saw it, but wanted to let me shoot anyway. Her captain goes into a rant about how "she has to do it or I'll never learn (witch), and that there is NO ONE in this league that lets you keep shooting on a foul (witch) my captain hears the commotion and comes over and they talk and she says it's a foul for sure. I say ok no problem and she shoots.

Although the captain of the other team handled this very badly, in a limited way I agree with her. If I were a team captain and my player wanted to let the accidental touch go, I would let her, but I would make a strong point with her later that in a league situation that is a foul that everyone else would call and accept with no hard feelings. She should not expect anyone else to forgive the foul if she taps the cueball in a future match, and no-one will be angry with her for calling such a foul. On the other hand, if she is a highly rated player, she probably already knows this and is giving you a break because she likes you.

Again, in the actual situation described, my player (your opponent) has waived her BIH and I would let that stand. And you did the right thing, stopping and waiting for a reaction from your opponent.


Edit: dang you guys are fast. Three posts while I was typing!

 

[James]

Although the captain of the other team handled this very badly, in a limited way I agree with her. If I were a team captain and my player wanted to let the accidental touch go, I would let her, but I would make a strong point with her later that in a league situation that is a foul that everyone else would call and accept with no hard feelings. She should not expect anyone else to forgive the foul if she taps the cueball in a future match, and no-one will be angry with her for calling such a foul. On the other hand, if she is a highly rated player, she probably already knows this and is giving you a break because she likes you.

Again, in the actual situation described, my player (your opponent) has waived her BIH and I would let that stand. And you did the right thing, stopping and waiting for a reaction from your opponent.


Edit: dang you guys are fast. Three posts while I was typing!

I disagree. You say "everyone else would call and accept with no hard feelings." That is simply not true. I can say with 100% honesty that regardless of the situation if she had done that to me I would not have called it. You can all say I'm lying or dumb until you're blue in the face but I'm not that worried about it. It's APA. It's fun. I have beers. I chat. If I win, I want to win because I was the better player. I realize that not fouling is part of that but unless we're gambling for big money I'm letting it go. If she's outshooting me and fouls like that, I don't want to win like that.

I'm glad to hear different opinions on this though!

-J

 

[longhair]

I disagree. You say "everyone else would call and accept with no hard feelings." That is simply not true. I can say with 100% honesty that regardless of the situation if she had done that to me I would not have called it. You can all say I'm lying or dumb until you're blue in the face but I'm not that worried about it. It's APA. It's fun. I have beers. I chat. If I win, I want to win because I was the better player. I realize that not fouling is part of that but unless we're gambling for big money I'm letting it go. If she's outshooting me and fouls like that, I don't want to win like that.

I'm glad to hear different opinions on this though!

-J

Actually, I'm glad to hear that. I guess you are playing in a casual and fun-loving league, which is awesome. That makes the witchy captain that much more of a stand-out jerk. In the APA league that I played in that kind of player was pretty common. Right on to you!

 

[James]

Actually, I'm glad to hear that. I guess you are playing in a casual and fun-loving league, which is awesome. That makes the witchy captain that much more of a stand-out jerk. In the APA league that I played in that kind of player was pretty common. Right on to you!

Well, the league is competitive but I think it's possible to still be friendly and have a good time.

FWIW, I just started playing 6 months ago and my team is in first place and I'm in first for the MVP rankings for my group, so I must be doing something right!

 

[sixpack]

I disagree. You say "everyone else would call and accept with no hard feelings." That is simply not true. I can say with 100% honesty that regardless of the situation if she had done that to me I would not have called it. You can all say I'm lying or dumb until you're blue in the face but I'm not that worried about it. It's APA. It's fun. I have beers. I chat. If I win, I want to win because I was the better player. I realize that not fouling is part of that but unless we're gambling for big money I'm letting it go. If she's outshooting me and fouls like that, I don't want to win like that.

I'm glad to hear different opinions on this though!

-J

In that situation, I don't give my opponent the option to not call it. I pick up the CB and hand it to them. I probably would not call it on my opponent though I would expect them to call it on themselves. If they looked to me to call it in a one-on-one situation I would probably let them keep shooting, but if they tried to get away with it I'd call it.

In a league situation though, I feel like I owe it to my teammates to call those kinds of things.

That's just how I roll

~rc

 

[okinawa77]

James,

Technically, the only person that can call the foul is the player or coach. And anyone on the team can be a coach. Therefore, a time out would have to be called, and the player chooses who will be the coach. Then, the coach can call the foul. Therefore, if the team captain did not call a time out before calling the foul, then that is against the rules.

I personally had a match whereas my opponent did not mark the pocket. I didn't call the foul, but everybody was hem hawing. I said, I am not calling a foul. He won that game fair and square. My captain sided with me, but the other team was a bunch of crack heads.....known sandbaggers. I won the match 5 to 1. And I reminded the other team about the time they called the foul on one of my teammates.

I could have interrupted my opponent to tell him to mark the pocket, but I didn't want to distract him. I want my opponents to bring their A game (play their best), and if I think they are sandbagging on me...then I'll defense them until they want to quit.

In fact, my team played against the team I speak of...just last week... and the WITCH on their team marked "her" 8 ball pocket while my teammate was shooting. Talk about a crackhead.

Hell, if I was playing...I would have grabbed it right off the table and threw it in the trash.