Kevin Trudeau (IPT) on Nightline tonight

[jjinfla]

The answer to your first question in near the top of the article I linked to.

Iatrogenic is explained in the links...it does not include someone who just happens to die in a hospital.

KT has been silenced from certain types of advertising on TV. The banning was a landmark decision, having serious implications for freedom of speech, as I understand.

Two of my favorite words that I do not want to see on my medical chart when I am in a hospital. Iatrogenic and nosocomial. Illness, disease, etc caused by a doctor or hospital. Big words to hide the fact that they screwed up.

Just like the 82 y/o woman who made the news last night. Had her kidney removed. Unfortunately the doctor removed her good one and not the diseased one. 50-50 chance and he got it wrong. A dozen people in the operating room and no one noticed the error. Yep, the longer you stay in a hospital the better the chance of really getting sick.

Basically, all KT says is if you eat healthy you are better off. And he repeatedly stresses the point that if you have a medical emergency to go to the emergency room. And before you start any diet and nutrient plan talk it over with your doctor.

Did you know that if you are experiencing the symptoms of a heart attack the last place you want to go is to your family doctor. Even if he shares an office with a cardiologist. The place to go is the emergency room. And not just any ER but one in a hospital that specializes in heart care.

Jake

 

[jjinfla]

It doesn't work like that. Once you authorize him to bill your card on say a monthly basis it never stops regardless of how much you try to get them to stop. They just keep making excuses and blaming it on clerical errors mean time they keep taking your money because you have authorized them to.

Closing your account seems to be what it takes to end it and getting a refund almost impossible. Also I assume closing their account is not an option for many people since they probably have outstanding balances they can't just pay off. They are stuck being run around by the system as Kevin continues to bilk them. It's probably a quite elaborate scheme.

QUOTE]

Gee that sounds pretty bad. Probably criminal. Did this happen to you? Or to someone you know?

And the Association I live in wants me to give them my checking account so that they can automatically deduct my monthly ammenity fees. After what you say I would be scared to death to give anyone the right to deduct from my checking account.

Jake

 

[macguy]

It doesn't work like that. Once you authorize him to bill your card on say a monthly basis it never stops regardless of how much you try to get them to stop. They just keep making excuses and blaming it on clerical errors mean time they keep taking your money because you have authorized them to.

Closing your account seems to be what it takes to end it and getting a refund almost impossible. Also I assume closing their account is not an option for many people since they probably have outstanding balances they can't just pay off. They are stuck being run around by the system as Kevin continues to bilk them. It's probably a quite elaborate scheme.

QUOTE]

Gee that sounds pretty bad. Probably criminal. Did this happen to you? Or to someone you know?

And the Association I live in wants me to give them my checking account so that they can automatically deduct my monthly ammenity fees. After what you say I would be scared to death to give anyone the right to deduct from my checking account.

Jake

It happened to me with a checking account and a no name dental insurance company. You know, I know better and the salesman talked me into it. What I couldn't believe was the bank wouldn't help me. It is a carefully crafted scheme that probably borders the legal. The biggest thing that lets them get away with it is the amount. It is so small usually no more then a few hundred most people will just say the heck with it and move on. They count on this, they try to wear you out with the delays, finally you just give up and stop calling.

On their side they show the appearance of trying to help and if push comes to shove will give you a refund but not till they really have to. Heck, ever try to collect insurance from the post office, they use the same tactics. It took me 9 months to get a COD payment the mailman didn't even collect. They actually asked me if I could contact the buyer and see if he would pay. The first time I called the maid answered and commented how much the guy liked the cue. When I finally got hold of the buyer he would not admit it was ever even delivered, big surprise.

 

[ScottW]

For the most part, organizations that auto-debit your accounts are on the up-and-up. It's the rare group that is either a) sneaky or b) just slack or incompetant that 'make the news'.

For myself, I've got most of my monthy bills (power, HOA, cell phone, cable) on auto-debit and they work great.

On the other hand, I personally have run afoul of this in a couple of situations just within the past month - one was a web service that re-subbed me without any notice, charging my credit card. I got a partial refund out of them (not what I wanted, but about all I was going to get) and cancelled. My main issue with this service is their policy of just resubbing you without any approval required - a bad business practice IMHO. Great for them though.

The other issue was a subscription to a spam-fighting service from two years ago, that was in beta at the time (the subscription was more of a help-fund-development thing) that never went anywhere. I got hit by them via Paypal for $25 last month - and I could *not* remember who the heck this group was! I filed a dispute via Paypal, and not too long after, the guy behind the service in question got in touch, saying he'd reversed the charges (he had) and apologized, saying that some automated process on his end was the culprit, and he'd look into it. No harm done in the end there.

 

[vader93490]

Vader,
Yes I have seen the customer complaints list before, and you are right in saying it shouldn't be dismissed.

But also I try to keep it in proportion with positive reviews: Some here for example: http://www.infomercialscams.com/natural_cures_defenses.htm There may not be as many, but satisfied customers are not likely googling "Natural Cures Complaints" or similar search terms to reach this site.

Oh come on Colin, there are many more complaints than praises; I think you're smart enough to see that. If anything, it should make one consider just what kind of business practices do go on at Natural Cures. It can't be excused, dismissed or swept under the proverbial rug nor should it be. America Online tried that manuever & from what I've read they're having financial woes now, laying off workers & closing assistance areas.

It seems to me that for every one satisfied Natural Cures customer, there are many more that are asserting fraud on their individual credit card statements or complaining about products not received in money order/check transactions. If anything, those watchdog websites should serve as a BIG warning to folks not to do business with Kevin Trudeau & his Natural Cures company.

In any case, it's just one of the numerous reasons why I won't even consider playing for this IPT tour. I don't like the fact that a large portion of the money was made off of folks desperately looking for an alternative & for all intents & purposes, getting nothing for their money & seeing bad things happen with death being a potentially sad end result. It's blood money, the "thirty pieces of silver" I likened it to some months back & I sure as hell won't touch it.

Seems the hard upsell and complex fine print is part of the nature of the informercial business (that does not excuse dishonest practices), but I'd imagine po'ing every customer would not be good business.

That should go without saying. In order for a company to succeed, good customer service should always be one of the highest priorities. You can't just simply ignore folks, especially when there are numerous complaints out there being voiced. Word of mouth spreads like wildfire, be it good or bad, especially with a high profile company with a lot of informercial advertising. Also in today's technological times, there is the Web with its many sites showing either good or bad business practices. In the case of Natural Cures, it's mostly bad if the plethora of websites is any indicator & I believe that it is.

Much of marketing is in creating deceptive illusions. Buyers ought to be well informed. On the Natural Cures issue, there are satisfied and dissatisfied customers it seems. The exact proportions are unclear, and any criminal suspicions regarding credit card fraud are only allegations at this stage as far as I know. I imagine a most mail order businesses have received hundreds, if not thousands of complaints regarding credit card charges. Seems to happen a lot, due to mistakes, lazy office management or deliberate policy to make refunds hard.

There shouldn't be ANY deception, period. People should be getting what they pay for, not some dog & pony show from a fast-talking criminal con man.

Regarding the previous credit card fraud that has been proven, you should check out the smoking gun website. The court documents are a real eye-opener, not just about Trudeau specifically but also how his adopted parents think.

We needn't be selling our souls to be grateful that KT has brought his business acumen and leverage into the pool world. It would seem to most a great thing for the future of the sport, and would benefit with support. Why keep staring a gift horse in the mouth? No one and nothing on this world is perfect.

Sorry, but this is one individual who WON'T be supporting a tour that's being bankrolled with blood money either playing or spectating. There is no "gift horse", to quote you. I do have to admit though, I did slightly smile under the mask when I saw that Colin. The more you talk, the more it seems to me that you're trying to excuse Trudeau's past deeds & crimes with statements like "keeping it in proportion".

Ask yourself this though, regarding Trudeau. Since he has demonstrated that he has no qualms in regards to defrauding the various credit card companies currently in existence, what's to stop him from defrauding sponsors or more importantly, the players on the IPT tour?

The point of the whole matter is this Colin. Trudeau can't be trusted & that's not just an allegation, that's the bottom line of the whole matter.

 

[wayne]

Oh come on Colin, there are many more complaints than praises; I think you're smart enough to see that. If anything, it should make one consider just what kind of business practices do go on at Natural Cures. It can't be excused, dismissed or swept under the proverbial rug nor should it be. America Online tried that manuever & from what I've read they're having financial woes now, laying off workers & closing assistance areas.

It seems to me that for every one satisfied Natural Cures customer, there are many more that are asserting fraud on their individual credit card statements or complaining about products not received in money order/check transactions. If anything, those watchdog websites should serve as a BIG warning to folks not to do business with Kevin Trudeau & his Natural Cures company.

In any case, it's just one of the numerous reasons why I won't even consider playing for this IPT tour. I don't like the fact that a large portion of the money was made off of folks desperately looking for an alternative & for all intents & purposes, getting nothing for their money & seeing bad things happen with death being a potentially sad end result. It's blood money, the "thirty pieces of silver" I likened it to some months back & I sure as hell won't touch it.



That should go without saying. In order for a company to succeed, good customer service should always be one of the highest priorities. You can't just simply ignore folks, especially when there are numerous complaints out there being voiced. Word of mouth spreads like wildfire, be it good or bad, especially with a high profile company with a lot of informercial advertising. Also in today's technological times, there is the Web with its many sites showing either good or bad business practices. In the case of Natural Cures, it's mostly bad if the plethora of websites is any indicator & I believe that it is.



There shouldn't be ANY deception, period. People should be getting what they pay for, not some dog & pony show from a fast-talking criminal con man.

Regarding the previous credit card fraud that has been proven, you should check out the smoking gun website. The court documents are a real eye-opener, not just about Trudeau specifically but also how his adopted parents think.



Sorry, but this is one individual who WON'T be supporting a tour that's being bankrolled with blood money either playing or spectating. There is no "gift horse", to quote you. I do have to admit though, I did slightly smile under the mask when I saw that Colin. The more you talk, the more it seems to me that you're trying to excuse Trudeau's past deeds & crimes with statements like "keeping it in proportion".

Ask yourself this though, regarding Trudeau. Since he has demonstrated that he has no qualms in regards to defrauding the various credit card companies currently in existence, what's to stop him from defrauding sponsors or more importantly, the players on the IPT tour?

The point of the whole matter is this Colin. Trudeau can't be trusted & that's not just an allegation, that's the bottom line of the whole matter.

You have way too much time on your hands. LOL

 

[jimmyg]

Pool always needed a Savior

I've been visiting Az's website for several months and I've really enjoyed reading the various questions, statements and replys on the message boards. It seems that you all have a great bunch of interesting people in your AZ community that truly love and have dedicated various portions of their lives to the GREAT sport of pool. You all seem to stick together and up for each other just about most of the time.
I first fell in love with the game growing up in lower Manhattan, can remember watching George (Makula) playing every table game from straight pool, billiards,nine ball and snooker at Julians on 14th Street in the late sixtys, then sometimes going uptown to watch the real heavyweights play at Ames and 7/11.

Played a decent game myself, high run of 60, as a teenager, but gave up the game at 18, knowing that there was no money in the game unless you gambled - and I didn't think I was good enough or even wanted to do that. Hardly played for over twenty years, and began playing again about eight years ago, mostly local handicapped nine ball tournaments in the late ninetys. Anyway, enough about me.
Pool has always needed a saviour, someone with a way to change the image of shady pool rooms and pool hustlers. Legitimate tours, decent prize money and a respectable image, something closer to golf, tennis or even baseball would bring out the big corporate money and put pool into the mainstream. Maybe college teams, just like tennis or football with scholarship money available to gifted, hard working kids and eventual entry into the Olympic games. Great dream, and probably doable somewhere down the road with the right people.

Now, don't get me wrong I am all for any forward progress for this game that I still play and love, and I do wish that I believed the IPT was that venue.

But, lets face it, in order for the IPT, or any other organization to make pool that successful it must be led by someone, or a group, that truly has pool as their number one interest, someone with integrity, respectability and a business model that does not resemble a giant pryamid scheme. I don't think that Kevin Trudeau is even close to being that person, nor do I believe that his vision of pool's future is even close to that ideal. It's not hard to do a Google search of KT and come up with information on Federal, State, and SEC investigations, felony convictions, bannings from being able to conduct business in several states.

And while I do hope that I am wrong and Mr. Trudeau's intentions are sincere, I still can't see how he can succeed with his current business model, and a televised program that currently resembles, in my opinion, a pool informercial . I don't think that anyone can deny that the current qualifying system certainly has that pryamid scheme flavor to it.

Sorry that my first post involves such a controversal topic, but macguy is pretty much right on the money, especially when it comes to allegations of credit card fraudulent billing practices regarding Natural Cures. There is a website where individuals can post complaints about various companies, if you go to [ and do a search for Kevin Trudeau and Natural cures, there are well over a hundred complaints of this nature that will come up. More than a coincidence.

Again, I really wish all you ITPers and the Tour the best of success, but keep your eye on the ball.