Ko Pin and Predator Cues

[one stroke]

I'd like to know if someone could please watch parts (or all) of that match and tell me
if Ko Pin-Yi was missing shots BECAUSE he uses a traditional - non LD - shaft.
The link is under the picture in the original post.

After you watch the match and in particular the shots he misses, please give me the
time during the video so I, and the rest of the forum, can see the shot.

Since people say that LDs make their games better and helps them pocket more balls,
I'd like to know what shots Ko missed because he's using a traditional shaft.

I actualy watched the whole match but not with that intent ,, first off playing on that equiptment like he does he very rarely coming with a big stroke using English on the outside of the ball he's playing mostly center ball high or low half tip full tip now and then with medium stroked cue
He could play with a broom stick on 90 pct of his shots

1

 

[HaroldWilson]

Actualy the BB ferrule less shafts are LD shafts and if you had a old BB with a ivory Ferrule , Tony will tell you to take that Volkswagen shaft off and put on his Ferrari shaft pretty much a excat quote from him to me ,,
I just stuck a predator shaft on it and the cue plays much better now just like all my other cues
If I had my choice of a expensive cue with a regular shaft of or a cheap cue with a LD shaft to run a rack for all the cheese I'm kicking the expensive cue to the curb to get to cue with the LD shaft


1

I had been referring more to solid hardwood shafts vrs Predator shafts which use the laminated construction in my other posts and was still on that vein. I can see that my proceeding post didn't read correctly from that perspective. However, I still prefer ivory ferrules cues over the ferrule-less as I like the sound of the hit but that is just a personal preference and the ivory ferruled cues from Vollmer also have very little noticeable deflection. Possibly he also cores the shafts and uses a fine layer of ivory to reduce the end weight mass.

 

[HaroldWilson]

Well Toney himself says that ,, I've put it to the test against my 314 and Z , all on the same cue with a medium speed hit and it was equal to the 314-2 the Z held the line the best , it also had the most spin coming back off the rail I atribute this to the smaller diameter
He cores the end of the shaft also to give it less end mass or so I'm told ,, on my cue the hit was better than the others more feedback ,, however I have another cue infact 2 with a tiger shaft I'd put right there with it , but hits are subjective


1

Yes it is a 100mm hole depth and then a black fibre pad on top, then the tip. That's what Vollmer does anyway and he bases his work on Boar a lot of the time as they share ideas. I had mine made to 13.3mm. It was very difficult at the time to order them from Tony as he said he was running low on quality shaftwood.

 

[arps]

Money talks.

But I'd rather go from Southwest to Tiger any day over Predator.

Ignacio has played with a predator for more than 5 years - made him reach the China Open finals and won almost all events the first time he stepped on US soil. Antonio Lining, Ronnie Alcano, Ramil Gallego, Rubilen Amit, all play/played with Predator cues. Almost all popular Filipino players use a BK2.
Do you think these players are wrong? LOL

 

[9Ballr]

Do you think these players are wrong? LOL

No I think they are right.
I'd also go wherever the money is if I was a pro player.
Regardless of shafts and cues and what they feel like.

 

[HaroldWilson]

Ignacio has played with a predator for more than 5 years - made him reach the China Open finals and won almost all events the first time he stepped on US soil. Antonio Lining, Ronnie Alcano, Ramil Gallego, Rubilen Amit, all play/played with Predator cues. Almost all popular Filipino players use a BK2.
Do you think these players are wrong? LOL

Are you saying they couldn't have had the same results with solid hardwood shafts and how many of these players are not sponsored by Predator or received them cheaper or for free under some type of arrangement ? And there is also a very good chance they they all use Kamui tips? as a large amount of the pro's around the world have some type of arrangement with Kamui. Does this mean kamui are the best tips?

If all of these players were multimillionaires and could pick and choose any of the equipment available on the market and the concept of sponsorship didn't exist, - would they still be using Predators? Likewise if I was a millionaire cue maker and could throw large sponsorship deals at players who need the cash, particularly players from 3rd world countries, how many of these players would be using my products?

Try hitting with a new Black Boar with Ferrule less or even ivory shafts and then hit with the highest model Predator cue and see the difference.

A lot of players played with high end customs such as Vollmer and Blackboar such as Thorsten Hohmann who won the world 9ball title with an ivory ferrulled Vollmer cue. Riko Diks used a Black Boar for many years etc etc. I have no idea what that space age looking cue is that Thorsten is using now but I would guess he wouldn't have moved to it from a Vollmer which won him a world title, simply because that cue performed better, somewhere along the line sponsorship became a large factor in his decision making.

It will be the same story with a lot of the pros using Predator, either that then it is the economical price of the cues compared to high end precision engineered cues which has become a driver in their decision to use Predator instead of say a Vollmer or Black Boar.

 

[PocketSpeed11]

Ignacio has played with a predator for more than 5 years - made him reach the China Open finals and won almost all events the first time he stepped on US soil. Antonio Lining, Ronnie Alcano, Ramil Gallego, Rubilen Amit, all play/played with Predator cues. Almost all popular Filipino players use a BK2.
Do you think these players are wrong? LOL

It's nice to see Predator made Ignacio reach the China Open finals. Guy would just be a barbanger otherwise.

 

[PocketSpeed11]

A 16 year old boy won the World 9 ball Championship with a standard shaft.

If you're a champ, you'll get there either way.

 

[Ratta]

I'd like to know if someone could please watch parts (or all) of that match and tell me
if Ko Pin-Yi was missing shots BECAUSE he uses a traditional - non LD - shaft.
The link is under the picture in the original post.

After you watch the match and in particular the shots he misses, please give me the
time during the video so I, and the rest of the forum, can see the shot.

Since people say that LDs make their games better and helps them pocket more balls,
I'd like to know what shots Ko missed because he's using a traditional shaft.

Noone misses a shot because of using a regular shaft or using a ld-shaft.
You ll have to play in some parts of the game a bit different- that s it. the art is to STAY with your material.
If you want to play pool on a higher competitive level you have to trust your material and your stroke- no matter what cue your are playing!
The discussion itself about LD or non-LD....neverending story.
some LD are more let s say *kind of more forgiving*- that s fact- and far too many switch to LD Shafts bc they think it could cover/hide some technical flaws and issues in their fundamentals.

Imo the wrong way- but hey. it s all kind of your own attitude

 

[marek]

some LD are more let s say *kind of more forgiving*- that s fact- and far too many switch to LD Shafts bc they think it could cover/hide some technical flaws and issues in their fundamentals.

...while i am going "backwards" from LD shaft to solid wood (11mm thin "toothpick" with long taper-I heard you on this one Boss and didnt go for 10.5mm) as I believe it will suit my current game more than LD shaft I have been using until now..

 

[HaroldWilson]

...while i am going "backwards" from LD shaft to solid wood (11mm thin "toothpick" with long taper-I heard you on this one Boss and didnt go for 10.5mm) as I believe it will suit my current game more than LD shaft I have been using until now..

I thought you used to use a WD900 shaft ? so you have gone even thinner than 12mm?

 

[LHP5]

Are you saying they couldn't have had the same results with solid hardwood shafts and how many of these players are not sponsored by Predator or received them cheaper or for free under some type of arrangement ? And there is also a very good chance they they all use Kamui tips? as a large amount of the pro's around the world have some type of arrangement with Kamui. Does this mean kamui are the best tips?

If all of these players were multimillionaires and could pick and choose any of the equipment available on the market and the concept of sponsorship didn't exist, - would they still be using Predators? Likewise if I was a millionaire cue maker and could throw large sponsorship deals at players who need the cash, particularly players from 3rd world countries, how many of these players would be using my products?

Try hitting with a new Black Boar with Ferrule less or even ivory shafts and then hit with the highest model Predator cue and see the difference.

A lot of players played with high end customs such as Vollmer and Blackboar such as Thorsten Hohmann who won the world 9ball title with an ivory ferrulled Vollmer cue. Riko Diks used a Black Boar for many years etc etc. I have no idea what that space age looking cue is that Thorsten is using now but I would guess he wouldn't have moved to it from a Vollmer which won him a world title, simply because that cue performed better, somewhere along the line sponsorship became a large factor in his decision making.

It will be the same story with a lot of the pros using Predator, either that then it is the economical price of the cues compared to high end precision engineered cues which has become a driver in their decision to use Predator instead of say a Vollmer or Black Boar.

So in the end the argument here is that a high end custom is nice but world championships can be won with anything. So why does the cue matter then?

 

[LHP5]

A 16 year old boy won the World 9 ball Championship with a standard shaft.

If you're a champ, you'll get there either way.

Exactly, and the current world 9 ball champ won it with a pred. The runner up came in with a low cost ld cuetech as well.

 

[HaroldWilson]

So in the end the argument here is that a high end custom is nice but world championships can be won with anything. So why does the cue matter then?

I agree, the cue doesn't matter. Regardless whether an LD shaft is used or a solid maple shaft. That's what the thread has been about. Part of the discussion is about how great Predator shafts are and the evidence is proven by the fact the pros have used them to win competitions. The argument against is that there are a lot of benefits using solid maple shafts as well and any of the pros can use them as well and still win..The custom cues part came into the thread because the Taiwanese including Ko Pin use SW cues and other high end custom cues. It doesn't mean you have to use one to be a good player it is just the way this thread has gravitated.

 

[marek]

I thought you used to use a WD900 shaft ? so you have gone even thinner than 12mm?

Yes, my playing shaft as of today is WX900. And yes, my new shaft is going to be thinner. For me the thinner the shaft the easier it is to aim shots. Plus I will get benefit of solid wood while having quite LD properties because it is thin=lowered end-mass of the shaft. I got this idea while playing pool with 9mm snooker cue. This new shaft is quite similar to what Steve Davis used when he played pool. Oh and one more thing - this new shaft is made of ash wood and is already on its way to me :wink:

 

[HaroldWilson]

Yes, my playing shaft as of today is WX900. And yes, my new shaft is going to be thinner. For me the thinner the shaft the easier it is to aim shots. Plus I will get benefit of solid wood while having quite LD properties because it is thin=lowered end-mass of the shaft. I got this idea while playing pool with 9mm snooker cue. This new shaft is quite similar to what Steve Davis used when he played pool. Oh and one more thing - this new shaft is made of ash wood and is already on its way to me :wink:

Ash is a lovely wood, I played with a snooker cue for years and like to sight down the arrows. Going down that thin will take a while to adjust, particularly when playing long shots with check side as you have to hit them perfect.

With that said, you have more than enough talent to adapt to any cue. In fact, the drills and advice you gave me during my preparation for the Pardubice Open 8 ball in 2014 is something I still talk about and use today and I have a lot of respect for your game and attitude.

When I left Prague I continued practising what you had taught me and my game went into overdrive and I reached the final knockout stages of the Dynamic Best Of The East - Polish Open 10-Ball after qualifying from my group which had 4 Polish players including Mariusz Skoneczny and Mieszko Fortuński.

Then I made the last 16 of the Baltic League 9-ball stop in Estonia losing 7-6 to Denis Grabe after I led 6-5! and lastly made the last 8 of the Baltic League 8ball in Lithuania before returning to Australia.

Off course Harold Wilson is just my screen name and I really thank you for the help you gave me which helped me to take my game to a completely different level. With that said, I still think you would hammer me again over a long match with or without your new cue

 

[marek]

Ash is a lovely wood, I played with a snooker cue for years and like to sight down the arrows. Going down that thin will take a while to adjust, particularly when playing long shots with check side as you have to hit them perfect.

With that said, you have more than enough talent to adapt to any cue. In fact, the drills and advice you gave me during my preparation for the Pardubice Open 8 ball in 2014 is something I still talk about and use today and I have a lot of respect for your game and attitude.

When I left Prague I continued practising what you had taught me and my game went into overdrive and I reached the final knockout stages of the Dynamic Best Of The East - Polish Open 10-Ball after qualifying from my group which had 4 Polish players including Mariusz Skoneczny and Mieszko Fortuński.

Then I made the last 16 of the Baltic League 9-ball stop in Estonia losing 7-6 to Denis Grabe after I led 6-5! and lastly made the last 8 of the Baltic League 8ball in Lithuania before returning to Australia.

Off course Harold Wilson is just my screen name and I really thank you for the help you gave me which helped me to take my game to a completely different level. With that said, I still think you would hammer me again over a long match

Oh great, nice to hear from you Leon! Qualifying from the group with Mariusz and Mieszko is one task from hell, you brought a shotgun along with you right? I am happy to hear you are doing so well. And I feel flattered by your kind words, I just try my best to help others with their game, it is my way to give something back to the sport I love :smile:

 

[HaroldWilson]

Oh great, nice to hear from you Leon! Qualifying from the group with Mariusz and Mieszko is one task from hell, you brought a shotgun along with you right? I am happy to hear you are doing so well. And I feel flattered by your kind words, I just try my best to help others with their game, it is my way to give something back to the sport I love :smile:

Haha thats right I think I needed it those two are insane players. Grabe was also a handful and somehow i managed to draw him twice in the same tournament!

The thing is that the drills you showed me took my game to an automatic level so i was just running out consistently every time I was given an opportunity. In the 1st Grabe match I ran out on the first attempt in all of the 6 games, which is the only way to beat these guys. The only thing I was thinking about while playing was simply to keep my head which helped me to ignore the pressure, everything else was just like turning on a tap.

Well next time I am in Prague i will give you a call and pick your brains some more

I was also playing with my snooker cue throughout each tournament, no Predators here lol

 

[marek]

Haha thats right I think I needed it those two are insane players. Grabe was also a handful and somehow i managed to draw him twice in the same tournament!

The thing is that the drills you showed me took my game to an automatic level so i was just running out consistently every time I was given an opportunity. In the 1st Grabe match I ran out on the first attempt in all of the 6 games, which is the only way to beat these guys. The only thing I was thinking about while playing was simply to keep my head which helped me to ignore the pressure, everything else was just like turning on a tap.

Well next time I am in Prague i will give you a call and pick your brains some more

I was also playing with my snooker cue throughout each tournament, no Predators here lol

Yup, brainpicking allowed :grin: Cya killer!