KT...Has to be said

Roadie said:
Haven't we been down this road? I thought it was agreed that the amount the players have put into the IPT is very small compared to what the IPT has paid out and what it has spent on staging and promotion.

It would not be difficult at all to discuss the good the IPT has done. Just as it is not difficult to discuss the obvious flaws the IPT has besides the non-payment issue.

The non-payment, the lies, and the disrespect shown to the players and fans is reprehensible. It does not outweigh the fact though that the IPT has shaken the professional pool world up and given hope to most of the pros out there where there was little to none before. If the IPT were to declare bankruptcy tommorrow then it would be regarded as the biggest failure in pool coupled with the largest payouts in pool. No one to date has dared to be as big as the IPT.

Barry Hearn is a multi-millionaire with loads of media connections. He hasn't attempted to do what the IPT has so far. Matt Braun and Allen Hopkins like to stage special events which only benefit very few players and have funky rules that make a circus spectacle of the game.

It cannot be known if "hundreds" of players will be left in "debt" if the IPT fails. I very much doubt that there are players who have put otherwise secure lives at risk for the IPT. Most of the players on the IPT roster are full-time pool players from what I can see. My experience is that most of them will play heads-up sets for more money than a full week of IPT expenses.

There is no doubt that Trudeau has run the IPT in a very heavyhanded manner regarding the players. There is no doubt that he spent very little effort to create a grassroots marketing campaign and that he gave the players little to go on for them to promote the IPT. That said, there is also no doubt that he has spent a lot of money to create a sellable product. He put IPT programming on during infomercial time at his expense. He got the IPT broadcast live on ESPN Europe. It is on an up and coming sports channel in the U.S.

In the end though, the players have contributed very little financially and have been rewarded handsomely when seen in purely financial terms. It appears as though this may continue. If it does not then at least there was a man who put up a lot of money, much more than he took in from the players, to try and make it work. That much at least should not be in dispute. Of course taken individually, some players of course put in far more than they have received in return at this point. It's not hundreds though and it's probably not life altering debts that have been incurred.

Barry Hearn is an honest and smart businessman. He does not stage events that will lose money. I don't have a problem with this, do you? And he always pays off, immediately. You know, REAL POOL, REAL MONEY and all that.

Actually KT should and could have learned a lot from Barry, but he choose instead to try to put him out of business.
 
I thought that Mr. Hearn and Trudeau had worked out their schedules? I hadn't read anywhere that Trudeau had attempted to put Hearn out of business or anything close to it. Can you elaborate Mr. Helfert?

My point about Mr. Hearn not doing what the IPT has/is attempting is that he certainly would seem to have an equal or greater amount of connections and resources as Trudeau has and yet he has not really tried to do much more than specialty events. He bought the World Championships and rearranged the format to his choosing and left the women and juniors to flounder. The pool community did not so much as blink when that happened. The winner of the WC gets $75,000 but what is the average take of the players? Far less than the IPT's average I'd guess.

It would seem as though Trudeau has learned some lessons from Mr. Hearn when it comes to the glitzy sets and the round robin format.

I don't have a problem with Mr. Hearn. I have nothing to base a statement about his honesty or savvy on. I quite enjoyed watching the finals of the world championships live last year. Very exciting tv and a good production. My only question is, if pool is indeed a sport that can be good tv then why hasn't Mr. Hearn tried to take it to the level that KT dreams of? Or even half of that? Shouldn't the World Champion 9-ball player be earning several hundred thousand dollars for that victory?

No one questions the financial outlay of the players who attend the WC versus the prize fund, no one complains of the money spent on qualifiers for the WC by players. No one has ever taken Mr. Hearn to task about what he brings in for producing the world championships or the Mosconi Cup and demands that the players be paid more or treated differently.

It was only after Trudeau with his reputation preceding him dared to evangelize about what he envisioned that he became the target of intense scrutiny. Rightfully so. But don't let others off with a pass just because they have paid out on time. Ask yourself if they haven't indeed made far more off the players than Trudeau has.

Why are snooker players still earning hundreds of thousands and the top players earning millions when pool is supposed to be more exciting and draw better ratings? Is it because promoters such as Mr. Hearn can get away with paying pool players far less for their appearance?

Pool players will always be at the mercy of the promoters until they unite. They have been sold out by the very organizations that claim to protect them. Namely the WPA and the UPA. Until there really is a player's union they will continue to get far less than they deserve even from the honest promoters in my opinion as regards the high profile events.
 
Roadie said:
I thought that Mr. Hearn and Trudeau had worked out their schedules? I hadn't read anywhere that Trudeau had attempted to put Hearn out of business or anything close to it. Can you elaborate Mr. Helfert?

My point about Mr. Hearn not doing what the IPT has/is attempting is that he certainly would seem to have an equal or greater amount of connections and resources as Trudeau has and yet he has not really tried to do much more than specialty events. He bought the World Championships and rearranged the format to his choosing and left the women and juniors to flounder. The pool community did not so much as blink when that happened. The winner of the WC gets $75,000 but what is the average take of the players? Far less than the IPT's average I'd guess.

It would seem as though Trudeau has learned some lessons from Mr. Hearn when it comes to the glitzy sets and the round robin format.

I don't have a problem with Mr. Hearn. I have nothing to base a statement about his honesty or savvy on. I quite enjoyed watching the finals of the world championships live last year. Very exciting tv and a good production. My only question is, if pool is indeed a sport that can be good tv then why hasn't Mr. Hearn tried to take it to the level that KT dreams of? Or even half of that? Shouldn't the World Champion 9-ball player be earning several hundred thousand dollars for that victory?

No one questions the financial outlay of the players who attend the WC versus the prize fund, no one complains of the money spent on qualifiers for the WC by players. No one has ever taken Mr. Hearn to task about what he brings in for producing the world championships or the Mosconi Cup and demands that the players be paid more or treated differently.

It was only after Trudeau with his reputation preceding him dared to evangelize about what he envisioned that he became the target of intense scrutiny. Rightfully so. But don't let others off with a pass just because they have paid out on time. Ask yourself if they haven't indeed made far more off the players than Trudeau has.

Why are snooker players still earning hundreds of thousands and the top players earning millions when pool is supposed to be more exciting and draw better ratings? Is it because promoters such as Mr. Hearn can get away with paying pool players far less for their appearance?

Pool players will always be at the mercy of the promoters until they unite. They have been sold out by the very organizations that claim to protect them. Namely the WPA and the UPA. Until there really is a player's union they will continue to get far less than they deserve even from the honest promoters in my opinion as regards the high profile events.

You call the WPC a "Specialty" event. Excuse me, the field is stronger and deeper than any IPT event, with ALL legitimate players in it. And you speak about the "average" take for the players. Well so far the average take from the World Open Eight Ball Championship (a lofty name) is ZERO!

On it's initial calendar, the IPT had conflicting dates with the WPC and the Mosconi cup. There remains a problem with the "scheduled" December IPT event and the Mosconi Cup. And there are a dozen of the IPT players who are on the Mosconi Cup teams.

It is a good thing thing that Hearn "bought" the WPC. Prior to this the first prize was about 15K to 20K. Total prize money about 50 to 60K. After he took over, the first prize jumped to 60K and total purse to 300K. It has continued to grow gradually since the first event in 1999. Like you, I wish Matchroom would produce a few more tournaments. Then there might be a real Pro Tour, not one based on smoke and mirrors.
 
Roadie said:
Why are snooker players still earning hundreds of thousands and the top players earning millions when pool is supposed to be more exciting and draw better ratings? Is it because promoters such as Mr. Hearn can get away with paying pool players far less for their appearance?

When have the ratings for pool matched those of snooker exactly? Every frame of every match in the round-robbin stages of the Grand Prix are currently showing on BBC2 (and Eurosport) every day, plus late night highlights and interviews in 'Snooker Extra'. This is hot on the heels of the ongoing bread-and-butter Premiere League highlights shown every couple of weeks (£1000 per frame plus £1000 per century break).

The money's not there anymore in snooker. That doesn't mean the money's not there anymore in snooker.

Boro Nut
 
Boro Nut said:
The money's not there anymore in snooker. That doesn't mean the money's not there anymore in snooker.

Boro Nut
Would that mean "the big money isn't currently being paid in snooker, but the potential for big money interest remains in snooker" ??
 
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