Lag on the lag ?

[Bob Jewett]

... Hmm , what if I shoot my lag over to his side of the table before he get's his shot off ?

I agree with Jude -- it's priceless to get this kind of obnoxious idiot alert, but here is an extract from the current WSR:

... It is an automatic loss of the lag if:
(a) The ball crosses into the opponent's half of the table;
(b) The ball fails to contact the foot cushion;
(c) The ball drops into a pocket;
(d) The ball jumps the table;
(e) The ball touches the long cushion;
(f) The ball rests within the corner pocket and past the nose of the head
cushion, or;
(g) The ball contacts the foot rail more than once. If both players violate automatic-loss lag rules, or if the referee is unable to determine which ball is closer, the lag is a tie and is replayed.​

If your tournament is not played by the WSR, you will have to read a different set of rules.

 

[DaveK]

I just had to say this - I've been playing competitive pool for years and years now. I know I've logged well over 1,000 matches in leagues and tournaments at this point. I've played in competitions with all types of players from beginners all the way to world champions and I have to say, only a handful of times could the opening break even be considered as to why I won/lost a set.

I think it's good to go over the rules and understand them but to start getting into all the what-ifs is kinda silly. I mean, anyone who tries moves during the lag is just going to look like an idiot.

With all your experience it amazes me that you do not seem to understand what is meant when a comment is immediately followed by a And everyone knows that two slow laggers will not cause the world implode, with or without a

Dave, doesn't look like an idiot but knows a few

 

[DaveK]

-- it's priceless to get this kind of obnoxious idiot alert, but here is an extract from the current WSR:

So Bob, how does one review and critique and improve rules if one does not look at the various interpretations and possiblilities they create ... or in your words consider the "obnoxious idiot" possibilities ?

I suppose that Billy Martin was being an obnoxious jerk when he appealed at second after restarting the game called due to the pine-tar-bat called 3rd-out-of-the-ninth .... thankfully the crew chief had done his obnoxious idiot review and wisely obtained affidavits from the original game. It's all just playing the rules, and doing so does not make one an obnoxious idiot, imo .... not playing them can make one a fool though, again imo.

Dave

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

With all your experience it amazes me that you do not seem to understand what is meant when a comment is immediately followed by a And everyone knows that two slow laggers will not cause the world implode, with or without a

Dave, doesn't look like an idiot but knows a few

Ok, I didn't mean for you to think I was addressing your specific post so I apologize. My "idiot" comment was meant to be a description of the problematic laggers we are talking about, not with how to deal with them. Lastly, my implosion comment was also a joke. Should I have followed it up with a so you could have understood, too?

 

[Jude Rosenstock]

So Bob, how does one review and critique and improve rules if one does not look at the various interpretations and possiblilities they create ... or in your words consider the "obnoxious idiot" possibilities ?

I suppose that Billy Martin was being an obnoxious jerk when he appealed at second after restarting the game called due to the pine-tar-bat called 3rd-out-of-the-ninth .... thankfully the crew chief had done his obnoxious idiot review and wisely obtained affidavits from the original game. It's all just playing the rules, and doing so does not make one an obnoxious idiot, imo .... not playing them can make one a fool though, again imo.

Dave

Don't get me wrong, I love baseball but I wouldn't want pool to look to baseball when it comes time to rulings and sportsmanship. In Billy Martin's situation, he was attempting to have a homerun overturned by citing a pinetar rule. Apparently, there wasn't a problem with the other George Brett at-bats but the moment he hits a homerun that could lead to a Royal victory, Martin objects. See, this is considered okay by baseball standards because getting it right is not as important as it is in pool. In baseball, if the first-base umpire rules a runner safe, he's safe. Nobody is going to overrule him, not even the chief-umpire even if he had a better view. The reason for this is simply because in baseball, it's more about what you can get away with than anything else.

In pool, we tend to keep a higher standard. There are plenty of players that will call fouls on themselves and will try to adhere to the rules as much as possible. In fact, there are many situations where players are obligated to call fouls on themselves and being argumentative could be grounds for banishment (especially in professional snooker).

 

[Bob Jewett]

So Bob, how does one review and critique and improve rules if one does not look at the various interpretations and possiblilities they create ... or in your words consider the "obnoxious idiot" possibilities ? ...

Well, many of the rules that have crept into the current WSR got there specifically to thwart players who put a lot of effort into using and abusing the rules to try to win games -- effort that might be better spent working on weaknesses. The problem usually boils down to insufficient sportsmanship. The "late lag" rule is there because some players want to take advantage -- real or imagined -- of their opponent's lag.

The rules should try to cover things as completely as is reasonable, but one example of things the rules shouldn't try to cover is every piece of disallowed equipment.

 

[freddy the beard]

Gamesmanship: Securing an advantage

For the unethically inclined AZ'rs, you may want to check out the "Gamesmanship" post on my blog, www.bankingwiththebeard.blogspot.com/ Lagging, and also flipping for the break moves are available for the slightly devious who would like to try them out on their friends.

the Beard
Don't tell 'em where you got it.

 

[DaveK]

...The "late lag" rule is there because some players want to take advantage -- real or imagined -- of their opponent's lag.

And lagging quickly when playing an opponent who is slow would be the best tactic, just like the post I liked earlier. Using the rules to ones advantage is just smart competing, imo.

Dave