Last Balabushka made

[JimBo]

well jimbo i might not be to bright, but i do know even the construction method of something can be a art, dont you think bricklaying is an art?
stone work? how about wood working? so why not machining?

i find it funny that rambo had a pattent on his constructing design, brunswick wanted to copy it so bad they bought it from him.
gee george even copyed it??? time to bash...jimbo...oh my god even gus copyed it.... or maybee he was just copying george....more bashing jimbo....
and wow there are several cue makers doing the same

i would like to know where you would draw the line? please let me make it clear i dont approve of counterfeiting so you can leave that one out.

as far as the half circles i dout he used old ferrules that dont make sence, if it wasnt good enough of a ferrule i dought george would of used it, plus there would of been plenty of prime cut offs from making ferrules he would use for that pourpose.

and that design just ask the miz. if his dads cue had that treatmant then ask him who made it. maybee someday ill learn a little more than just typing with one finger and i can post some pics here for you .

You are a fool

Jim

 

[JimBo]

Your the one who claimed your new DZ was a copy of the last Balabushka made. If it is not a direct copy of that cue, maybe you should have posted it as a Balabushka inspired cue, and you would not have to be defending your cue with the post you made above.

BTW, there were many here enjoying the discussion of your original thread...and the discussion was good.

It would be easy to prove if he had left it up for all to see. Now he wants to say it was not a copy, we all read the last post and it was in his own words a copy of the exact cue. Now he's catching some heat and he wants to try and change what he has already said. Doesn't work that way, sorry. Different Pin and Wrap has nothing to do with design theft.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

From these important visual comparisons, I see no similarity between SW and Coker. The only thing I can find that are kind of similar is with the way they construct their 6 spliced poitns. But that's not a knockoff, it's just the way they make their points.

.

Did you type that with a straight face??? LOL

Jim

 

[JimBo]

I think people often compare those two because of their similarities in hit.

I think the only people who think they hit the same are the people trying to sell them. How many Coker cues have you sold in the last 3 years???

Jim

 

[SplicedPoints]

I actually don't sell cues. I'm not a cue dealer at all. I only stated that because I keep seeing that on ebay. I personally find their hit somewhat different. You have no need to think i have other motives. I own a Coker, and that's all the connection I have with Coker cues. I don't know the cuemakers personally, except I exchanged email once with Grady Coker. I'm just looking at the facts. I don't see a copy of the major sw designs on what Coker cues are selling in the last 3+ years. (this just popped into my head) I think Tom coker did, at the mid-nineties, made some cues that used some of SWs designs. I remember seeing my 1 or 2 of those old cues on ebay. Anyways. There still no need to single out Coker as a knockoff of SW, is it?

 

[JimBo]

One other persistent question that is so far unanswered (or I don't find it satisfactory answered) is why you would bash one cue maker for making a design and not another. Balabushka lookish design is almost one of the industry's standard designs. There are many very well established and highly respected cuemakers that started off their careers by deliberately imitating either Balabushkas, Szambotis, or South Wests. Some of them are still churning out, and even advertising their cues as, Balabushka design cues. Where do you "draw the line" when it comes to designs?

I agree with the new designs, and I am asking the same question, where do you draw the line? One thing you seem to miss is this cue was described as a copy of not only a bushka, but a certain famous one (the last one). Fact is many people have come out with a Bushka cue (Black) but that cue is in the traditional style, not an exact copy. Same veneer colors, same box and 1/2 circles in the same layout. The cue was described by the owner (Duke) as a copy of the cue, not as a Bushka inspired cue. Again where do you draw the line? I've already heard your thoughts on the Coker topic and I know it was swayed by your involvement with the company, (whatever that may be).

Jim

 

[JoeyInCali]

I don't want to sound like I'm desparaging Coker cues, but it'd be impossible for Coker cues to hit like SW.
Coker's taper is nowhere near SW's taper. Shaft and butts.

 

[SplicedPoints]

Maybe I edited my last post a bit late. I am not involved with Cokers in any way. I like the way their cues play, that's it. You haven't gave me a good example of how Cokers knockoff SWs more than what tons of other cue makers have done to deserve a single-out treatment.

 

[JimBo]

One other persistent question that is so far unanswered (or I don't find it satisfactory answered) is why you would bash one cue maker for making a design and not another. Balabushka lookish design is almost one of the industry's standard designs. There are many very well established and highly respected cuemakers that started off their careers by deliberately imitating either Balabushkas, Szambotis, or South Wests. Some of them are still churning out, and even advertising their cues as, Balabushka design cues. Where do you "draw the line" when it comes to designs?

I agree with the new designs, and I am asking the same question, where do you draw the line? One thing you seem to miss is this cue was described as a copy of not only a bushka, but a certain famous one (the last one). Fact is many people have come out with a Bushka cue (Black) but that cue is in the traditional style, not an exact copy. Same veneer colors, same box and 1/2 circles in the same layout. The cue was described by the owner (Duke) as a copy of the cue, not as a Bushka inspired cue. Again where do you draw the line? I've already heard your thoughts on the Coker topic and I know it was swayed by your involvement with the company, (whatever that may be).

Jim

 

[Fred Agnir]

Maybe I edited my last post a bit late. I am not involved with Cokers in any way. I like the way their cues play, that's it. You haven't gave me a good example of how Cokers knockoff SWs more than what tons of other cue makers have done to deserve a single-out treatment.

I think there are a few others, and some even do the knockoff thing to a higher degree. But, the Coker cues have been abundantly advertised as "Southwest style" that they get the first shot fired at them.

Just last week, a cue by my friend Andy Gilbert was scrutinized and IMO rightly so.

Pete Ohman's cues have been blasted many times for being too close to being Southwest knockoffs.

So, Coker's not the only one.

Fred

 

[JimBo]

I actually don't sell cues. I'm not a cue dealer at all. I only stated that because I keep seeing that on ebay. I personally find their hit somewhat different. You have no need to think i have other motives. I own a Coker, and that's all the connection I have with Coker cues. I don't know the cuemakers personally, except I exchanged email once with Grady Coker. I'm just looking at the facts. I don't see a copy of the major sw designs on what Coker cues are selling in the last 3+ years. (this just popped into my head) I think Tom coker did, at the mid-nineties, made some cues that used some of SWs designs. I remember seeing my 1 or 2 of those old cues on ebay. Anyways. There still no need to single out Coker as a knockoff of SW, is it?

Well, you sounded like you did either sell them or know them, the mention that you've seen 200 of them, now I think you're talking about pictures on E-bay or something. If that's the case I've seen as many as you. I've also hit with 5+ and not one hit anything like a Southwest, again the only people making that claim are people trying to sell them, it's a lie and a bad one IMO. If you really believe they look nothing like SW cues then I feel sorry, but we disagree on this one.

Jim

 

[JimBo]

I don't want to sound like I'm desparaging Coker cues, but it'd be impossible for Coker cues to hit like SW.
Coker's taper is nowhere near SW's taper. Shaft and butts.

Joey you must not be trying to sell any Coker cues.

Jim

 

[Worminator]

Just last week, a cue by my friend Andy Gilbert was scrutinized and IMO rightly so.

Fred

Was this the cue JimBo was referring to in the orginal post that was deleted? I asked about this before Duke nuked the thread. I am not aware of Andy copying designs, but apparently he did. Can you fill me in? Also, JimBo referred to CCB (I believe that is what it was). What does the acronym stand for?

Thanks...

 

[merylane]

i dont understand why jimbo would call me names, if he doesnt want to answer my questions maybee he should not reply to them!!!

boy i would love to see some pics of jimbos cues he must have a realy nice collection of one of a kind truely original designs?????

or maybee hes afraid of the same abuse...

or that some one might copy them...

 

[Fred Agnir]

Was this the cue JimBo was referring to in the orginal post that was deleted? I asked about this before Duke nuked the thread. I am not aware of Andy copying designs, but apparently he did. Can you fill me in? Also, JimBo referred to CCB (I believe that is what it was). What does the acronym stand for?

Thanks...

Someone had posted a picture of their Andy Gilbert Cue on this forum or the CCB (Billiards Digest Cue Chalk Board Forum). It was an aesthetic copy of a Southwest. I've discussed this with Andy, and though I don't want to put words into his mouth, I gather he'll think twice before doing that again.

Here's the thing with Coker as an example. I wonder how many people buy a Coker on eBay because it looks like a Southwest? How many of those would buy a Coker off of eBay if it didn't look like a Southwest? Is Coker well known for anything other than making cues that are advertised as "looking like" and "hitting like" a Southwest???

Fred <~~~ doesn't mean to bash Coker

 

[SplicedPoints]

Here's the thing with Coker as an example. I wonder how many people buy a Coker on eBay because it looks like a Southwest? How many of those would buy a Coker off of eBay if it didn't look like a Southwest? Is Coker well known for anything other than making cues that are advertised as "looking like" and "hitting like" a Southwest???

Fred <~~~ doesn't mean to bash Coker

I don't know if Grady Coker actually advertise them as Southwest look alikes. He doesn't have a website for Coker Cues and I've never met him in person. The Southwest comparison probably was started by cue sellers. I think its more of a marketing tool more than anything. The truth is that the majority (I would say 80%+) of Coker's cues bear no significant resemblance to any of the SW Designs. If you take a ordinary 6 point Coker and a 6 point SW and compare them side by side, I don't think anybody can say that there is a significant resemblance between the 2 cues. The joint pin's different, taper's different, ring design's different, and sw band's missing on Cokers. Where else can you really point a finger on? I really can't find anything significant to call them knockoffs. I don't know why Jimbo's having such a hate-on with Cokers. Even if a small portion of Coker's earlier works in the mid nineties are SW inspired, there is really no reason to call them knockoffs because the great majority of their more recent works do not resemble SWs anymore.

 

[SplicedPoints]

I guess what I am trying to say is:

You can't really fault a cuemaker for making a cue with designs that are close to industry standard designs, established by a well-known cuemakers. If anybody makes a cue with black/brown phenolic joint/buttplate, 6 short-splied points with alternating heights, and ring design that doesn't involved ivory or metal rings at ABCDE, a hardwood buttsleeve, the cue will end up looking somewhat close to SWs. That is because SW designs are not complex to start with. The only 2 things you can really pin as truly SW original design are the rings and the buttsleeve band. If a cue maker doesn't try to imitate those two designs, than he isn't trying to make a SW lookalike. Like I've discussed before, the great majority of Coker cues don't have either designs.

 

[classiccues]

This is all bunk. Someone needs to step down from his soap box and get a life. Why do people make "look a likes" ? Because thats what people like to BUY. A cuemaker should NOT turn down an order if someone likes a particular 4 point 3 veneer cue with pearl inlays, but just wants it to play like that cuemakers normal cue. Lets see, why does Shick make an 8 point Botiesque type cue? Because someone likes it. Why did Timmy Scruggs, who I admire and like alot, make a COMPLETE SERIES of Bushka inspired cues for Lucky @ ilovecues.com? Because Lucky ordered them and paid for them, and he knows his customers will like them. Do I think he is an idiot for doing so? Heck no, keep the tradition alive. There are very few cuemakers that have not at one time or another, been inspired by thier peers and made similar cues. I will say however a cuemaker should have his own style ALSO, and not just make similar cues to others.
So a list of current cuemakers that make "traditional" cues, or SW like cues, on order could be summed up like this... Mottey, Scruggs, Schick, Weston, Showman, White, Coker, Capone, Black, Haley, Gilbert, Dayton, Searing and so on... pretty good list if you ask me.

Joe

 

[duke@neo.rr.com]

learn what you're talking about.

Who's designs do you think you'll ask him to steal for your next cue??

Jim

why don't you contact Bob yourself you idiot and ask him why he made the cue? ask him if I asked him to make it! you won't do this because you'll be the one looking like an ass!

 

[SplicedPoints]

Well said Joe. That's what I feel too.

From Jimbo: If you really believe they look nothing like SW cues then I feel sorry, but we disagree on this one

I really feel they don't bear any significant resemblance. I've listed in a previous post about how they are designed differently. If you really feel Cokers are knockingoffs of SWs, why don't you give specific examples from the majority of Coker's designs that does resemble a SW?