"League Players LOL"

ShootingArts said:
Sean,

That sounds like a very nicely ran league. If the leagues I encounter were more focused on playing pool I am sure that I would be more impressed with them.

Hu
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Hu:

Thanks! I can't take the credit for it, as this particular league existed prior to my becoming an operator of it, but it's a league that has enjoyed a lot of success over the years, and I'm happy to now be part of it. (Incidentally, this is a multi-night league -- 3 nights a week -- so as to fit in with a busy person's schedule. Of course, these are considered 3 separate leagues -- a player can't show up on a Monday night one week, and then on Wednesday night the next week, thinking it's all one league -- but it's nice that this particular establishment tries to accommodate busy peoples' schedules nonetheless.)

And, to mimic a certain men's hair restoration TV commercial, "I'm not only a league operator, but also a player." (The league operator is not allowed to play in the same league he/she is operating for obvious conflict-of-interest reasons, but can play on a different night -- I run/operate on Wednesdays, but play on Mondays.) So I'm knowledgable of the player's viewpoint as well.

The area up here (tristate NY/NJ/CT area) has enacted no-smoking laws in public places (including poolrooms) for many years; a smoker has to exit the establishment and smoke outside. So the significant smoke-irritant problems have been a thing of the past up here. We'd had problems with smokers wanting to go outside and take a smoke break in the middle of a match, but we'd revised the rulebooks to make it clear that it's not the "right" of the smoker to do this; only as long as the opposing team's captain and the opposing player agree to it, can a smoker take a smoke break in the middle of a match -- with the proviso that the current rack/game has to be completed first.

Anyway, it's interesting to read the various ways that leagues are run in different parts of the country. Humbly, I think all in all, even the bad ones have something to offer. Keeping a pool establishment in business is paramount. It pains me when I read in these forums about yet another pool establishment that closed its doors due to lack of business or whatever, and the area that it served (some having served an eye-openingly wide area!) is now without a place to play. I heartfeltedly sympathize with the pool players in that area that are affected by something like this.

-Sean
 
There is a place for everything

As I am packing to go to the Western BCA 9 Ball Regionals, I came upon this thread. (leaving tomorrow, and I am so stoked)
All leagues have their place. APA is more for the social player who wants to play with their friends and have a night out to have some fun.
But IMO, BCA is for the more serious player, at least in my area.
I feel BCA league is VERY serious. The tournament I am attending is the biggest regional BCA event in the country. This event is not a drunkfeast.
(And yes, people do drink) But for the most part, most take this event very seriously.
Its not right to group ALL leagues together as the same. Each have their own character of players. The question is, what kind of player. And I believe there is a big difference.:)

And I might add, some the best players in the Pac. NW participate in BCA.
Glen Atwell
Dan Louie
Todd Marsh
Jackie Fitchner
Cindy Doty
And I could go on and on, the list is very long.
 
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Milo said:
As I am packing to go to the Western BCA 9 Ball Regionals, I came upon this thread. (leaving tomorrow, and I am so stoked)
All leagues have their place. APA is more for the social player who wants to play with their friends and have a night out to have some fun.
But IMO, BCA is for the more serious player, at least in my area.
I feel BCA league is VERY serious. The tournament I am attending is the biggest regional BCA event in the country. This event is not a drunkfeast.
(And yes, people do drink) But for the most part, most take this event very seriously.
Its not right to group ALL leagues together as the same. Each have their own character of players. The question is, what kind of player. And I believe there is a big difference.:)
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Good luck to you! I'll keep my fingers crossed that you/your team will do well!
 
Bankshot be careful what you say now as your OP seems to put all of AZ'ers opinions of League players in the same catagory of being against league players. Much like the poster who feels all league players are drunks ... I do not drink but have nothing against those that do I know many league player that do not drink.These things are simply not true I know some of the long time AZ'ers do not feel that way and not everyone feels league players are drunks ... Jam for instance once told me the funnest time she ever had was playing league pool... And she seemed to be all for leagues. Me I have probably been playing pool off and on for close to 20 years and the last two years are the only years I have spent in a league. Mostly because our town in Southern California did not have a league. Now here in Southern Georgia we have a great league ... I have one friend who is a player and every time I play his son for money after league I hear him tell his son not to drink because if he does that Diet Mountain Dew drinking MF'er is going to end up with all thier money... Of course I'm the one drinking diet Mt. dew ... It is a inside joke between us but very true ...lol... Now let me tell you a little about our league...

Our League is VNEA and while we go by VNEA rules for the most part we have a meeting at the start of each season to modify some of the rules to the way we want them. Some of them are good some are stupid. For instance one modification is that you cannot touch the cue ball with your cue unless in the middle of a shot. For those that like to rake the cue ball with thier cue on a scratch or the break or ball in hand that is a foul and considered a shot and you lose your turn. Another is you cannot talk to the players when in a game only the two playing can talk to each other or else it is foul. If the guy is not paying attention and gets up to shoot the wrong balls not even the team captain can say anything to him.Also the handcap rules were voted out so we play with no handicaps just head to head straight up... If a team wins the league two years in a row they must drop two members off the team the next year and pick up two new players, We have kind of redefined some of the rules in VNEA to give the league members what they want...

Our league is set up so that all stats come out each week ... No money is given out till the end of the season where we have a big awards banquet and some good homestyle cooking. All teams get a share of the money with the top team getting the most then it filters down to the last place team getting the least amount. The only thing the bars get is the table money and the sale of thier products . Awards/trophies/certificates are handed out at the banquet for top team , top player with the most points one for males and one for females ... There are top 10 awards handed out for the men they get a certifcate and T-SHIRT for top ten... There is top 5 for the women who also get a certificate and T-Shirt we have alot less woman that play ... We give out most improved , perfect attendence .... Most 8 balls on the break ... Most ERO's Earned Run Out's ... These all get certificates and or a trophy... Each team in the league has to donate two door prizes many donate more then that ... Most of the time these are pretty nice like Zippo lighters or pool related things ... Some are 50.00 gift certificates or cash ... even the occasional 12 pack or certificate for a 12 pack from one of the bars... Everyone gets ticket and the prizes are handed out after everyone eats.

The banquets are alot of fun and few miss them. The end of the season Banquet gives alot of the league players the motivation to get out and practice. We are a small town with only 3 bars but it is nothing for us to field 10 teams in league. The individual awards for men and woman give the players more motivation to get out and improve thier level of play seeing there is no handicap. Their is alot of friendly motivation between several of us to get into the top 10 and we check back and forth through the week to see how we done and where we stand. We have two seasons the spring season is longer each team plays the other teams twice ... The fall season is shorter and each team only plays the others once. But that means two banquets and alot of fun. I think we are very fortunate to have a great league in the small town that I live in ...

As for the league player who slapped his wife down in the parking lot for losing a championship game ... That could of been anyone not just a league player .. To me that is a person of low class and just a low life person in general it could happen to anyone that allows themselves to sink that low... How does that differ from a pool player being out all night and coming home to the wife and kids only to have his wife accuse him of being out all night cheating on her and they get in fight and he ends up in jail for domestic violence charges...Or the player who loses his paycheck in a game and goes home wondering how he will feed his wife and kids that week and pay the rent since he lost his paycheck in a game.

Personally I think leagues are great I don't look down on them. I think if done right they can promote the game and help it ... Of course that is only my opinion and everyone is entitled to thier own ... Just like everyone chooses rather or not they want to improve thier game. or just do it for fun and not care at all about it ... I personally choose to get better and spend alot of time working to get better ... League is only one part that drives me to improve ... tournaments another ... And my personal desire to be the best that I can be is the drive that drives me the most...
 
League Players LOL

From what I can tell, it sounds like the leagues in other areas are full of a bunch of jacka$$es that don't care about pool. Most of the KY leagues seem to be a little bit more serious than what you all are experiencing. I was in Vegas and was shooting in a pool room during the week and they told me I had to get off the table I was on due to leagues starting. I looked up and saw that there were about 5 people in the room with me and leagues started in 10 min. In the next 10 minutes about 60 people started filing in. Right then I though, these people are going to walk in the door and start playing league matches? I sat and watched for a while and was VERY unimpressed with the level of talent in the room I was in. If you go to where we play league, an hour before or more all of the tables are taken and half the team members are practicing. I guess maybe I take for granted that we're a more serious region than others. Also, we've got an extremely high concentration of 5 handicaps and up and it makes it very hard for us to even get teams together sometimes. The 5's and up are typically the people that you will find practicing early and on non-league nights. The room that I play in has leagues Sunday through Thursday and it's a full house everynight. You may have a few people that get out of hand now and again but for the most part everybody is pretty focused on the matches that are being played. The only distractions that you may encounter during most of our matches are the fact that somebody's ass in stairing back at you when you go down to take a shot.
 
too serious !!

I had one APA member on one APA team that threw a very good friendship
with me away because I could not make it to a play off one saturday and they blamed having to conceed the match due to lack of players on me ??
I took the rap for it all , I aplogized to the whole team ,I even told them
not to count on me that saturday ?I had been sick all week and came and
won a match for the team that friday night, then told them I could for sure
be there on that sunday but saturday I had to work and recover.So after
all that the guy on that team that was my friend who even went with me
to Derby still turned on me and after 9 months still is mad at me ?I even
caught myself being the one of the last two people at the pool room the
other night and the other was Mr.APA .So I thought well .....and tried one
last time to talk to him about it all and see if he was willing to let it go and
be friends .Well PRIDE is a awful thing ...I know I have had to swallow alot
of it myself ......but this guy has a lot to get past himself.I feel bad that
we are not friends anymore.
What I learned was that I am not and have never really been a "team player"
I did do the best I could for that team that week .I am on one TAP team
and they seem to understand that I have to work and am working on my
life as well as my game (they work together or against each other) .Thanks
for letting me vent .If the team is right and people understand that you have
a life leauges are great .If they get too serious then it hurts the whole idea.
I am going to the US open this week ,thats serious pool .If Mr.APA had
not of been so prideful I would of got him a T-shirt . :D
 
Matt90 said:
I had one APA member on one APA team that threw a very good friendship
with me away because I could not make it to a play off one saturday and they blamed having to conceed the match due to lack of players on me ??
I took the rap for it all , I aplogized to the whole team ,I even told them
not to count on me that saturday ?I had been sick all week and came and
won a match for the team that friday night, then told them I could for sure
be there on that sunday but saturday I had to work and recover.So after
all that the guy on that team that was my friend who even went with me
to Derby still turned on me and after 9 months still is mad at me ?I even
caught myself being the one of the last two people at the pool room the
other night and the other was Mr.APA .So I thought well .....and tried one
last time to talk to him about it all and see if he was willing to let it go and
be friends .Well PRIDE is a awful thing ...I know I have had to swallow alot
of it myself ......but this guy has a lot to get past himself.I feel bad that
we are not friends anymore.
What I learned was that I am not and have never really been a "team player"
I did do the best I could for that team that week .I am on one TAP team
and they seem to understand that I have to work and am working on my
life as well as my game (they work together or against each other) .Thanks
for letting me vent .If the team is right and people understand that you have
a life leauges are great .If they get too serious then it hurts the whole idea.
I am going to the US open this week ,thats serious pool .If Mr.APA had
not of been so prideful I would of got him a T-shirt . :D
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That's pretty ridiculous, life's too short for "friends" like that.
 
Milo said:
As I am packing to go to the Western BCA 9 Ball Regionals, I came upon this thread. (leaving tomorrow, and I am so stoked)
All leagues have their place. APA is more for the social player who wants to play with their friends and have a night out to have some fun.
But IMO, BCA is for the more serious player, at least in my area.
I feel BCA league is VERY serious. The tournament I am attending is the biggest regional BCA event in the country. This event is not a drunkfeast.
(And yes, people do drink) But for the most part, most take this event very seriously.
Its not right to group ALL leagues together as the same. Each have their own character of players. The question is, what kind of player. And I believe there is a big difference.:)

And I might add, some the best players in the Pac. NW participate in BCA.
Glen Atwell
Dan Louie
Todd Marsh
Jackie Fitchner
Cindy Doty
And I could go on and on, the list is very long.
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I think the quality of the league depends on the area. In my area, the BCA has a very small presence, while the two APA areas are two of the largest in the country. Yes, the quality of play varies from team to team, as it does in all leagues. However, I have seen several local APA league players match up and beat pro players in some of the non-league related regional tournaments. In a area wide APA Masters Tournament, I have personally played against, and beat, a semi pro in the WPBA. There is no lack of quality in the APA or any other league.

BTW, the current U.S. Open champion, for a few more days, Shane Van Boening is a product of the BCA league system. Enough said about the quality of league players.
 
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quote"What really gets me going is when people say that leagues are good for pool. THEY AREN'T! They are good for the bars and poolrooms that serve alcohol, and not much more than that."quote

This is emphatically untrue. I for one would have never stepped into a pool hall had I not first been invited to play in an APA league. I know many players who are in this same boat. We started out having fun with the guys drinking and playing pool. But many of us have graduated from that to a more serious study of the game. I personally spend several hours a week in a pool hall practicing and playing. I have played in local tournaments and in leagues that had nothing to do with a bar.
Everyone starts somewhere.
I thank many times the problem is lumping people into groups because they aren't like you. Maybe we should talk about how many pool players have such a hard time spelling and that's what's wrong with pool.
As long as people are playing the sport stays active. Worry about it when the BCA,APA and any other league folds for lack of interest.
 
I'm not sure why league players have to constantly defend themselves against the pool snobs. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

You can log in to AZ at any given day and read someones rants or whining about the sorry state of pool and how it seems to be dying out.

I don't buy it.

Guess what people pool is alive and well and being played everyday in pool halls, pubs and bars across North America. Pool leagues play a big part in this.

I admit there are leagues that are run as businesses that don't put the players interests first, no names mentioned, everybody knows which ones they are.

Months back somebody had the audacity to state that pro pool players didn't come from leagues. Well, would you please explain that to SVB.

Here in Alberta Tyler Edey and Edwin Montal still play on league teams. I might add they are great embassadors for the game.

My city supports 4 leagues where many players play in more than one. People join different leagues for different reasons, some play in more competitive leagues where handicapps don't have such a big effect on the outcome of a match or a season.

Some play in APA/CPA styled leagues because really all they want is a night out to play some pool. Power to them, they know what they like and the go and do it. Who are any of you to put them down for it.

For that matter who are any of you to put down bar players who may have never played in a league.

Isn't enough that they're out there playing pool.

It's my experience that most tournament players also play or have played in a league of some sort. It really seems to me that it's only the gamblers that seem to look down thier nose at league players.

Perhaps it's because pool is just another opportunity to gamble to them, instead of pool being thier passion, gambling is and they don't relate to those that play for the compitition.
 
Neil, don't take this personally because I'm just replying here.
If it were not for leagues such as APA BCA whatever then there would be much less of an awareness of pool.
This last winter I went to the Allan Hopkins SBE in Valley Forge. I saw alot of league players there and the place was packed. Had to be 10,000 plus attendees. If it were not for pool becoming more main stream by having been exposed due to leagues you would not be able to have events such as this. I have met some players with whom I wouldn't even trust leaving my cue unguarded for a minute. Are these league players?
No. I would be willing to bet that a lot more pool rooms would be closing if it weren't for these leagues. League players, not league players....why should you care if it's one or the other as long as the game is played.
And by the way...I don't know how good you are Neil...but I know several "league" players that would give you a run for your money.
 
"I've seen decent tournaments with low spectator turnout. Where are the league players? Again, odds are they didn't even know about it. "

If anyone doubts this statement, then they've never seen the "YEARLY" BCA League event in Vegas. The top PRO Men and Women, were competing just down the hall, plenty of signs and info available to the league members and when you went to watch (as I did) you saw only 20-40 people in the stands and most of them were Pros watching.

At the DCC, spectators were mostly players and friends of players watching the matches. The APA and other League tournaments provided lots of players that could have been spectators... yet they were mostly there to compete and go.

The US Open has close to 100+ spectators a day and Friday and Saturday are Standing Room Only.... it is a sight to see. I know this has to impress even the most seasoned of the Pros. 800+ spectators in tight quarters with the lights and cameras going... Huge TV screen providing table coverage on the Wall for spectators not able to see the match very clearly from the stands.

League players for the most part are spending their entertainment dollars at a bar and in some cases a pool hall. That doesn't require them to support anyother part of the industry other than purchasing a cue and case and accessories.

Spectators are few, but are usually knowlegable about the game and are players to boot.
 
Neil said:
Maybe you need to re-read my replies. My beef is that league play for the most part is an end all situation. Most leagues do nothing to actually promote pool. They have no desire to use the leagues as a stepping stone to higher levels of play. Most league players don't even know who Johhny Archer is.



If this makes me a snob, then I will wear the title proudly.
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funny you say this, A guy who is the head construction worker here at my house told he played pool when I mentioned it to him, He is a apa6-which means I have no idea how he plays but i'm sure he can make a ball, he was all fired up telling about how he has played pool "seriuosly" every thrusday nite(for over 10 years)-"nothing is more important" he continued. I asked about his cue, he described something with a quick release pin. Just to see what he knew I asked if it was a Mcdermott or Mucii-I know it wasnt I just wanted to see his response-Blank stare, so he kept talking about the pin, I knew then he was clueless, I asked about the table he played on most of the time, "Regulation" he said proudly. I ask him who his favorite player is-I DID NOT say pro, just "Who's your favorite?". No answere, I said mine is Archer-never said I know him, just his name, I might as well said bill jones-he had no Idea, to give him a out, I then I said "he isnt too well known so thats why you never heard of him, do you like that girl in the black cloths?" Blank stare, I said "I dont know her name either". He didnt know Archer of Jeanette, OK Archer I get but Jeanette is main stream media to a extent. Other than what he does on his "Thursday" nite nothing else happens. I dont think they want to wake up league players

Speaking for myself If all I knew was leagues, the first thing I would wonder is Am I fully involved in pool and who else is, then I would do my homework and realize I wasnt, Like I said they are drinkers who hide behind pool, they are NOT pool players who drink, they drink and use pool an a excuse for one nite a week at the bar, whats their excuse for the other 6????

Point is Neil is sooooo right, they know shit about pool and the way their system works they never will, they are drinkers-period. Glad they dont cross over to my world- suppose im now a snob-for the first time.
 
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.................................
Neil said:
Maybe you need to re-read my replies. no I don'tMy beef is that league play for the most part is an end all situation. setting up a framework for players to compete on a national and international level is an end all situation? Please explain.Most leagues do nothing to actually promote pool. What pool are you suggesting they promote? ProPool? I think that's the job of Promoters and Tournament directorsThey have no desire to use the leagues as a stepping stone to higher levels of play. Says who?Most league players don't even know who Johhny Archer is.Who's JoHHny Archer? Oh, did you mean Johnny Archer? I missed the class where that was manditory to know who pro players were in order to enjoy a sport/past time

Sure, some of the legue players really take to the game, and pursue it. Some becoming great players. But odds are they did it on their own. The leagues probably didn't encourage it, or provide any info on how to improve.The information is there for those that want it. If you're suggesting that league players be funnelled into the pro system somehow then you would need some sort of over all governing body

People do always complain about the sad state of pool in this country. Well, if the leagues, which have the most people, aren't willing to do anything about it, then what hope does pool in this country have???I give up. It seems to me that your idea of pool starts and stops at the professional level. I still maintain that pool is alive and well in North America, the evidence for this is the over all league numbers and the turnouts for the Vegas ACS, VNEA, ACA and PlayBCA tournaments

If the leagues acted like a stepping stone, I'm sure that many more people would pursue pool to a higher degree than they now do. This is your opinion which may or may not be valid, I'm sure if more people saw pool as a viable career there would be more people in it, as it stands pool can barely support the pro players that are currently active(in north america, Asia and Europe don't seem to have a problem]I've seen decent tournaments with low spectator turnout.I'm not reallly sure pool is that great of a spectator sport. I won't go watch 9 ball events because they're boring Where are the league players?Playing pool? Again, odds are they didn't even know about it. How hard is it for the L.O. You're assuming the L.O. knows about the tournamentto put out a few flyers to the league members, and encourage they go watch and learn some things?

If this makes me a snob, then I will wear the title proudlymost snobs do.
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Neil said:
Maybe you need to re-read my replies. My beef is that league play for the most part is an end all situation. Most leagues do nothing to actually promote pool. They have no desire to use the leagues as a stepping stone to higher levels of play. Most league players don't even know who Johhny Archer is.

Sure, some of the legue players really take to the game, and pursue it. Some becoming great players. But odds are they did it on their own. The leagues probably didn't encourage it, or provide any info on how to improve.

People do always complain about the sad state of pool in this country. Well, if the leagues, which have the most people, aren't willing to do anything about it, then what hope does pool in this country have???

If the leagues acted like a stepping stone, I'm sure that many more people would pursue pool to a higher degree than they now do. I've seen decent tournaments with low spectator turnout. Where are the league players? Again, odds are they didn't even know about it. How hard is it for the L.O. to put out a few flyers to the league members, and encourage they go watch and learn some things?

If this makes me a snob, then I will wear the title proudly.
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neil,
please read this whole thing because i want to make sure you know that this is not an attack on your posts. i, in fact respect your opinion. i just want to try and make people, including yourself aware of some of the things that leagues do to promote our sport and to let you know that most of us know they are going for as much money as they can suck out of us. the apa in fact does try to get it's members to continue to grow. they support and promote the us amateur tournament. winners (mens and womens side) get entry into a pro event. also the bca and apa hold their annual national tournaments in conjuntion with pro events. the apa is a huge sponsor of the women's pro tour. and using johnny archer was a bad name to choose when you said most of the league players wouldn't know him. he is part owner of the marietta billiard club here in georgia. his nephew jamie played a session in my 8 and 9 ball divisions in duluth. and i hate to tell you but most of the guys i shoot with could name a good number of the top players, mens and womens, and alot of us are here on az. the leagues want us to know and watch the pros. it feeds our want to play which feeds thier pockets. and there's the kicker. that's why i said i'm not bashing your opinion. they want us to get better and form new teams and see the pros and feed our dreams and egos. because it feeds their pockets. they are a neccessary evil. where do you think the next generation of plyers will come from anyway? there's not alot of other ways younger people are getting brought into the sport. and i don't consider myself a league player or a pool snob. i am both. i enjoy watching bartram and moore battle for 10 g as much as i enjoy trying to get myself a 7 sl in apa 8 ball and a 9 in apa 9 ball. as much as i want to get a 9 for my bca rating.
 
Fatboy said:
funny you say this, A guy who is the head construction worker here at my house told he played pool when I mentioned it to him, He is a apa6-which means I have no idea how he plays but i'm sure he can make a ball, he was all fired up telling about how he has played pool "seriuosly" every thrusday nite(for over 10 years)-"nothing is more important" he continued. I asked about his cue, he described something with a quick release pin. Just to see what he knew I asked if it was a Mcdermott or Mucii-I know it wasnt I just wanted to see his response-Blank stare, so he kept talking about the pin, I knew then he was clueless, I asked about the table he played on most of the time, "Regulation" he said proudly. I ask him who his favorite player is-I DID NOT say pro, just "Who's your favorite?". No answere, I said mine is Archer-never said I know him, just his name, I might as well said bill jones-he had no Idea, to give him a out, I then I said "he isnt too well known so thats why you never heard of him, do you like that girl in the black cloths?" Blank stare, I said "I dont know her name either". He didnt know Archer of Jeanette, OK Archer I get but Jeanette is main stream media to a extent. Other than what he does on his "Thursday" nite nothing else happens. I dont think they want to wake up league players

Speaking for myself If all I knew was leagues, the first thing I would wonder is Am I fully involved in pool and who else is, then I would do my homework and realize I wasnt, Like I said they are drinkers who hide behind pool, they are NOT pool players who drink, they drink and use pool an a excuse for one nite a week at the bar, whats their excuse for the other 6????

Point is Neil is sooooo right, they know shit about pool and the way their system works they never will, they are drinkers-period. Glad they dont cross over to my world- suppose im now a snob-for the first time.
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Folks:

Again, take a look at the particular league Eric mentioned in the first sentence. Up until recently, that particular league (North America's largest) did nothing to promote knowledge of the pool industry to its players. The other leagues -- BCA, TAP, and VNEA -- were all very good at sponsoring events, such as amateur and professional tournaments (e.g. the TAP "Rally in the Valley" at the Super Billiards Expo, BCA's annual "big one" in Vegas, etc.).

Then, suddenly, I'd say starting a couple years ago, North America's largest league system started plastering their name over televised professional events, such as the GenerationPool.com and other tournaments seen on ESPN. I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it looks to me like they're trying to make up for years of industry support neglect. Sure, they may introduce the sport of pool/billiards to the masses, but they'd sure neglected education of the pool/billiards industry to their player populace. One can argue whether this is their job or not (being they're a well-oiled money making machine), but I for one think it should be.

However, as I mentioned in a previous post (post #16), please do not make the mistake of painting all leagues with that APA brush. The other major league systems, as well as the regional leagues (such as the one I operate), do have their hearts in the right place, and churn out some really fine players.

P.S.: Do not forget that certain notable pro players, e.g. Shane Van Boening and Corey Deuel, are products of the league system -- specifically BCA. Also do not forget that *any* league is vulnerable to the job performance of the league operators. This might help explain why certain areas of the country have a very good league reputation, while others are in the crapper.

I hope this is a helpful clarification,
-Sean
 
I'm playing in a new masters league and they only have 4 teams....I am having a problem with what the outcome will be if our team wins? I know we have to have 6 teams b4 we can go to Vegas for it but what if we don't get 6 teams???
 
This entire thread is very interesting to me: someone who is rediscovering their love of pool who has never played in a league before.

I don't understand how leagues discourage improvement... if league players don't practice and want to use the league for socializing that's one thing, but I keep hearing that APA isn't the stepping stone it should be... how exactly does the APA hold a player back?

I love to play pool and would play 4 days a week if it weren't for my husband, and I seem to have a natural knack for it... Otherwise, I don't see anyone holding me back from competing in any event and going as far as I want....

Doesn't a player control his own destiny? Doesn't a league provide an outlet for competition and... improvement?? Doesn't it feed a desire and encourage success??

Actually I don't plan on joining a league because as someone else alluded, I don't want to be stuck till 12am anywhere for any reason when I have to go to work in the morning.... which sucks because one day I'd like to compete on a small scale...

If it weren't for that, I think leagues are important and don't believe that they are 'bad for pool'. They may tarnish some persona somone holds dear of what a 'real' pool player is, but I don't see how they're bad in any way.
 
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