League Question (kind of long)

[RBLilly]

Hey everyone,

I have been posting in here a while now, and I really need some advice of people that are team captains.

I have been team captain for 11 weeks now. We have 10 weeks left before play offs. Our record is 8 wins 3 loses. We lost the first two weeks of league and have been shooting lights out pool ever since. Well until last night that is.

We are second in the division, but lost to the first place team last night pretty bad. We beat them the first time we played them. There are a total of 27 points per night and we lost 21 to 6 last night!

I feel mostly responsible because my line up caused a lot of it. It allowed my best players too much time on the side lines getting cold while the week players wound up loosing badly. (I take full responsibility for the mess up.)

Each team consist of a maximum of 10 people. Most teams carry 5-6 players every week, that way everyone gets to play an ample amount of games. The minimum required players would be 5.

I originally had my 6 people selected for the team. Then I had 4 people that said they would be subs.

Anyway, 3 of the four people that said they would sub tend to show up every week. So I feel obligated to play all 8 or 9 players that show up.

This however allows for fewer games played per person. Instead of playing like 4 or 5 games a piece everyone gets like 3 games a piece.

We play 9 individual games and 9 doubles games. So if all 10 of my people show up someone doesn't get an individual game. And the doubles is another story all together! I have people that don't want to shoot doubles with other people on the team and they have told me they don't want to shoot doubles with them. So I have to schedule the doubles to suit everyone's needs. It is like walking on egg shells. I understand that some people shoot better with others, and that everyone's style is a little different. But they don't want to play with someone then they have to sit a while before they play, and they get mad about getting cold!

Well last night was a 9 person night. When we lost I get a tongue lashing by my three best players that if I continue to play the subs they are all three walking out on me.

The thing that pisses me off about this is all of us are supposed to be friends and this is supposed to be just a fun trophy league. No money is in it for us, and it isn't that cut throat of a league.

The other thing that pisses me off is all three of these people had the chance to be captain at the beginning of the season, and none of them wanted it! They all said they would be co-captain if needed.

So I am in a dilemma here because if I quit playing the 3 subs they will more than likely flake on me when I actually need a sub! Not to mention they are my friends and will be pissed off at me.

Now if I continue to play all nine players it looks like I might loose my best 3 players. Again they are my friends and will continue to be pissed off at me. Not to mention that two of them are my mentors and teach me a lot about the game!

I try to play everyone that shows up equally cause I believe we win as a team and loose as a team. And to tell you the truth all but one player on our team should be able to wax anyone we play. We are all pretty good shooters.

So what would everyone do in this situation? I don't want to piss anyone off. Hell I didn't even want to be captain originally. If one of the other guys were captain then I would just be playing and I wouldn't care who they played or didn't play. That's because it wouldn't be on my shoulders. Also I am just there to have fun, because it is a fun league not a money league or anything like that.

I don't want to piss anyone off, but it looks like no matter how I do it I will piss someone off. I also told them all at the beginning of the season that I will try to play everyone equally.

Hell I even told my wife last night I would just hand the reigns of captain over to someone else and quit playing in that league cause this is really taking the fun out of it for me. I am only 31 years old, and the two best players that are really hounding me are both in their later 50's! You would think that it wouldn't be a big deal, but I guess it is!

Anyway, do you all have any advice? Any captains out there been in this situation?

 

[Snapshot9]

Lol

You now know why it is lonely at the top .... LOL

1) The Captain of a team should be either the best or second best player on the team. Maybe down to third, but no lower.
2) You have too many players on the team. 8 should be the max for a team. 10 is too many.
3) Subs should know they are ONLY subs, and ONLY used when a regular member can not make it. If they show up when not needed, make it clear they will be watching only.
4) If they get pissed off, they either get over it or they won't, but don't worry about it, do what is best for the team.
5) The best players are the ones carrying the team, and they deserve some consideration.
6) You don't put up 'weak sisters' to play against an opponent they have no chance to beat.
7) If it was a money league, I always kept a spreadsheet on Excel, kept my own stats, and paid back to each player, including subs, by the number of games played. Breakdown prize money on per game basis. Fairest way to do it.
8) Nobody has fun in last place, especially session after session.
9) The league, by definition, is a competition, therefore, when considering priorities, put competition before participation. This way, it becomes known, that the best players for the team will play each week. If it tees off the others, let them go form their own team to play. Subs aren't hard to come by.
10) The other thing you can do, is that the bottom player or two that loses the most will sit out the following week, and 2 others will play.

And why are you playing in a league just to get something you have to dust? ..... LOL I have 2 big big boxes of trophies (24 of them, most 1st or 2nd, MVP, etc) stored, I'd much rather get money back.

 

[RBLilly]

Captain

I understand exactly what you are saying. I wanted to play in this league cause it was fun, and I wanted some practice before jumping into the money league situation.

I honestly feel that I am the third best player on the team, and I really wanted the 1st and 2nd players to be captain and co-captain, but they didn't want to be. Now they are the first one's jumping down my throat telling me not to play the subs.

 

[gman_tx]

To start with I have a very reliable team that shows up to all matches. WHat I have done is not call anyone a sub. We are all team mates and I have made a schedule where everyone is off every sixth or seven weeks depending on the league. We talked about this concept as a team before the last session started and everyone has liked the idea. We do require that everyone shows up even on their off days to either watch and encourage the rest of the team or to just make sure even made it. Most of the time when a person shows up and they know it is their day off they just stay a about an hour or so and get in some practice timie on another table. This system has worked out great for us.

 

[RBLilly]

To start with I have a very reliable team that shows up to all matches. WHat I have done is not call anyone a sub. We are all team mates and I have made a schedule where everyone is off every sixth or seven weeks depending on the league. We talked about this concept as a team before the last session started and everyone has liked the idea. We do require that everyone shows up even on their off days to either watch and encourage the rest of the team or to just make sure even made it. Most of the time when a person shows up and they know it is their day off they just stay a about an hour or so and get in some practice timie on another table. This system has worked out great for us.

I actually talked about doing that about a month ago, but only a few others like the idea. The rest of the team didn't care for it at all.

 

[supergreenman]

A team is not a democracy

I agree with snapshot, you have too many people on your team.

That being said, you should maybe have a team meeting to discuss these issues. As a captian you can ask for input. However it's not a democracy, you're the captain, it's your job to make the decisions that are best for the team. If you leave it to a vote or a consensus you will end up with a compromise which may not be in the best interest of the team.

Be fair but rule with an iron fist.

 

[RBLilly]

Thanks supergreenman

Thanks for the support!

 

[bsmutz]

I'm with SGM here. The team can be a democracy to some extent, though. It all boils down to which is more important to the team, winning or being fair to everyone. Make them part of the decision making process. Once they all understand what the dilemma is, the team should be able to make a decision that will be fair to the majority. Once the team has come to some sort of agreement, then your job will hopefully get easier. If they can't reach an agreement, then you need to become dictator as that is the position they have put you in.
From what you said, it sounds like the main focus for the team right now is playing time. You need to pare back to 6 people, 7 at the most to make it fair.

 

[42NateBaller]

I agree with SnapShot and SGM, but I also have a schedule of who plays each night based on a 7 person rotation. My top two skilled players get the most matches.

Best of luck. Let us know what you decide to do, and how it came out.

 

[rackem]

How many teams in this league? Do they all have 10 players? Is it a travel league or an in house league? Sounds to me like the league might need some restructuring?

 

[IbeAnEngineer]

Who to Play

I agree with the other posters. You need to call a team meeting to discuss and come up with a system/schedule of who plays.
Here is a system used on one of the teams that I play on. We run a 7 man rotation with 5 players playing each week. During our matches we keep track on everyone's performance and the bottom two shooters sit out the next weeks match. That way, the top shooters play more but still gives everyone playing time. If someone wants more playing time they have to step up and earn it. If someone can't make it one of the players sitting out plays as a sub. The money is divided at the end of the year based on the number of matches.

 

[Catahula]

The sun will rise in the East (I predict)

1. to many players. your bad for letting this many people on the team
2. play that people that raised their hands 1st. I assume you asked and they said yes.
3. do not forget...THIS IS BAR LEAGUE! The sun is going to come up tomorrow in the East regardless of what happens (win, lose or draw) with your match.

 

[FLICKit]

1. to many players. your bad for letting this many people on the team
2. play that people that raised their hands 1st. I assume you asked and they said yes.
3. do not forget...THIS IS BAR LEAGUE! The sun is going to come up tomorrow in the East regardless of what happens (win, lose or draw) with your match.

Actually if you read the bylaws of their league. Section 12.365 states that the rising of the sun from the East is dependant on whether they win, lose, or draw. And this is subject on termination at any time. Of course offerings of ample vestile virgins would serve to delay any such termination time.

Just gotta read the rules.

 

[T_larsen]

captaining

If your friends said they wanted to be just subs then thats what they are. If they want to quit i'd say,( well i have a full team. In the begining you said you just wanted to sub. SUBS DONT PLAY EVERY WEEK.)They are considered expendable players cause you really don't even need them. And you sitting your best players agiainst the #1 team is just flat out crazy. True team players now there place. And playing in tough match, you play your top players always. My advise to you is no team can forever stay together. you take your team and make 2 teams. If you have 7 players on a 5 man team. THATS PLENTY. any more then that you are looking for problems. It's just my opinion. I've been a cpt, for 8yrs. now and i have no problems. IT'S ALWAYS WHATS BEST FOR THE TEAM.

Hey everyone,

I have been posting in here a while now, and I really need some advice of people that are team captains.

I have been team captain for 11 weeks now. We have 10 weeks left before play offs. Our record is 8 wins 3 loses. We lost the first two weeks of league and have been shooting lights out pool ever since. Well until last night that is.

We are second in the division, but lost to the first place team last night pretty bad. We beat them the first time we played them. There are a total of 27 points per night and we lost 21 to 6 last night!

I feel mostly responsible because my line up caused a lot of it. It allowed my best players too much time on the side lines getting cold while the week players wound up loosing badly. (I take full responsibility for the mess up.)

Each team consist of a maximum of 10 people. Most teams carry 5-6 players every week, that way everyone gets to play an ample amount of games. The minimum required players would be 5.

I originally had my 6 people selected for the team. Then I had 4 people that said they would be subs.

Anyway, 3 of the four people that said they would sub tend to show up every week. So I feel obligated to play all 8 or 9 players that show up.

This however allows for fewer games played per person. Instead of playing like 4 or 5 games a piece everyone gets like 3 games a piece.

We play 9 individual games and 9 doubles games. So if all 10 of my people show up someone doesn't get an individual game. And the doubles is another story all together! I have people that don't want to shoot doubles with other people on the team and they have told me they don't want to shoot doubles with them. So I have to schedule the doubles to suit everyone's needs. It is like walking on egg shells. I understand that some people shoot better with others, and that everyone's style is a little different. But they don't want to play with someone then they have to sit a while before they play, and they get mad about getting cold!

Well last night was a 9 person night. When we lost I get a tongue lashing by my three best players that if I continue to play the subs they are all three walking out on me.

The thing that pisses me off about this is all of us are supposed to be friends and this is supposed to be just a fun trophy league. No money is in it for us, and it isn't that cut throat of a league.

The other thing that pisses me off is all three of these people had the chance to be captain at the beginning of the season, and none of them wanted it! They all said they would be co-captain if needed.

So I am in a dilemma here because if I quit playing the 3 subs they will more than likely flake on me when I actually need a sub! Not to mention they are my friends and will be pissed off at me.

Now if I continue to play all nine players it looks like I might loose my best 3 players. Again they are my friends and will continue to be pissed off at me. Not to mention that two of them are my mentors and teach me a lot about the game!

I try to play everyone that shows up equally cause I believe we win as a team and loose as a team. And to tell you the truth all but one player on our team should be able to wax anyone we play. We are all pretty good shooters.

So what would everyone do in this situation? I don't want to piss anyone off. Hell I didn't even want to be captain originally. If one of the other guys were captain then I would just be playing and I wouldn't care who they played or didn't play. That's because it wouldn't be on my shoulders. Also I am just there to have fun, because it is a fun league not a money league or anything like that.

I don't want to piss anyone off, but it looks like no matter how I do it I will piss someone off. I also told them all at the beginning of the season that I will try to play everyone equally.

Hell I even told my wife last night I would just hand the reigns of captain over to someone else and quit playing in that league cause this is really taking the fun out of it for me. I am only 31 years old, and the two best players that are really hounding me are both in their later 50's! You would think that it wouldn't be a big deal, but I guess it is!

Anyway, do you all have any advice? Any captains out there been in this situation?

 

[RBLilly]

yeap

1. to many players. your bad for letting this many people on the team
2. play that people that raised their hands 1st. I assume you asked and they said yes.
3. do not forget...THIS IS BAR LEAGUE! The sun is going to come up tomorrow in the East regardless of what happens (win, lose or draw) with your match.

I understand I have too many people. Originally 4 people were supposed to be subs, but for some reason 3 come every week and expect to play.

Had I known that those 3 people would play every week I wouldn't have gone out and recruited 4 people . I would have recruited 1 person.

I was suppose to have 6 main players including myself in that 6. Then have 4 subs on the side, but it hasn't turned out that way.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

 

[RBLilly]

How many teams in this league? Do they all have 10 players? Is it a travel league or an in house league? Sounds to me like the league might need some restructuring?

Well the team we played last night has 9 people on it.

Some teams carry only 5 or 6, and some have a full roster of 10.

There is like 50 teams on the league. There are 4 divisions and like 12 teams in each division. The top 4 teams in each divison go to the playoffs. The top team in each division moves on. Then the top two teams play for the championship.

We are 2nd in our division, and that is playing with all 10 of our players! We would be 1st if I was only playing with my 6 top players.

This league travels, one week you are at home, the next week you are visiting.

Anyway, that is the break down of it.

 

[RBLilly]

Don't know

Well I haven't decided yet what I am going to do, and it looks like I have about a week to decide. I don't like being put in this possition which is part of the reason I never wanted to be captain. I just wanted to play my game and have fun. It looks as if someone will be mad no matter what choice I decide. So I guess I have to think about what I want. It is hard cause I am friends with all of them.

If this was a working relationship and I was a boss it would be so much easier. Cause they tell you when you are a boss you have no friends. In other words your employees aren't your friends, they are employees. So in other words I could make the right decision about this pool league if we all weren't friends. Since we are friends it complicates matters cause I enjoy hanging out with all of them.

I will let you all know what I decide. In the meantime I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. They are food for thought, and it helps me out greatly. I also appreciate all the captains that are giving me advice.

Thank YOU!

 

[FLICKit]

I understand I have too many people. Originally 4 people were supposed to be subs, but for some reason 3 come every week and expect to play.

Had I known that those 3 people would play every week I wouldn't have gone out and recruited 4 people . I would have recruited 1 person.

I was suppose to have 6 main players including myself in that 6. Then have 4 subs on the side, but it hasn't turned out that way.

Thanks for the advice everyone.

Sounds pretty easy then. Play your 6 main players as much as possible.
Use your remaining 4 subs, sparingly, when needed.
That's what you signed them up for, that's what they all agreed to. Anything outside of those agreements is by choice, not by demand. If they wanted anything other than that, then they should've said so from the beginning.


Optional: If you want, play your main 6 players about 4/5 of the time, and reserve the remaining 1/5 for the remaining 4 subs. When you play your subs, only as often as subs should play, then they'll likely start showing up only on a part time basis as well. If they continue to show up without playing as much, then it'll be because they enjoy it anyway.

You can elevate a sub who's playing well, and use him a little more often. As was mentioned earlier, if they want extra time, then they just have to earn it.

You can be a bit pro-active, by talking to your subs and letting them know if they want to play on a more regular basis, then they are welcome to join some other teams which will need them and let them play more often.

Stop trying to make em all happy. You can only make a few of them happy, or else make all of them unhappy, and even more so make yourself unhappy.

 

[rackem]

It is really pretty simple. You should have a designated team. Whatever it takes to play your weekly match. A Sub is just that a substitute. They should only play when a designated player can not make it. You should request as much notice as possible when a regular is going to be absent. Then you contact one of your subs and tell them you need them that week. If someone wants to be a regular player they should be willing to commit.
Afterall this is not APA where you need to worry about handicap match-ups.

 

[Neil]

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