League Question (kind of long)

[RBLilly]

General conclusion

Well you all have about the same concept on this. Most people voting are saying the same thing. So it sounds like I need to basically put all the subs in their place, and if they get mad then so be it. It's not like I have a shortage of players. LOL That is actually the problem isn't it!

So I think next Wed. I will just inform the subs that they said they wanted to be subs this season. If they want to play full time then my buddy Willy has open spots on his team.

I am also going to tell everyone that if they don't like my decision they can be captain and I will hand it over to them right now. The sad part is that none of them will stand up to be captain. None of them want it, and none of them will take it. (They can all give me hell for messing it up, but they don't want to be in that position.)

I know it is going to make them mad, but I guess they shouldn't have told me they wanted to be subs before the season started.

Now as far as my top players I have to ream ones butt for the stunt he pulled on Wed. He was mad that we were loosing so bad that he threw the last two games of the night. I won't stand for that! If you want to cry and act like a baby then get off my team. He didn't hurt me, he hurt the whole darn team. So anyway that is another issue I have to address.

Thanks for everyone's advice. If you all have anymore I have until Wed. to figure out exactly what I am going to tell them.

 

[RBLilly]

Decision

Well I want to thank everyone for their opinions on this subject. I have come to a conclusion on what to do. So here is my decision to date. I have typed a letter to all players who are on the team. Everyone is receiving the same letter, and it doesn't mention names as far as who is complaining.

In other words the letter states that the involved parties know who they are. In the letter I state that almost everyone has complained about too many players per night. Which is true, in fact there has only been one night out of 11 that we have had less than 7 people.

Then I went on to say that if anyone else wants the Captain spot they can have it and I will gladly just be a player. (Nobody will step up and be Captain though, I am certain of this.) Then I went on to say that I offered Captain to two individuals at the beginning of the season, but neither one wanted it.

I then went on to say that if the regular players don't make it on time, or fail to call me and tell me they are running late, then they risk being replaced that night by a sub.

I also stated that the subs could sub for another team for the night if they weren't playing for us. Or if they wanted to play every week they could join another team.

Then I had to cover the issue of one of my players throwing games cause he was pissed. Basically I said that everyone is expendable and if games were thrown I wouldn't put up with it. They expect me to do what is right for the team, and I expect them to do what is right for the team.

Then I went so far as to figure out all the stats of each player, just to see how fair everything has or hasn't been. I figured out how many games each individual has played, how many nights they have played, how many wins they have, how many games per night they have played, how many games per night they have won, and finally their win percentage.

As to be expected my starting 6 which includes me, has the highest win percentages. We have one exception to that because one sub I didn't know before the season started. However, I can't kick off one of my original 6 and replace them with the good sub. That wouldn't be fair to my original 6 that agreed to play in the first place.

I am going to give the whole team this letter on Wed, and tell them that if they don't like it, they can be Captain, or they can walk off the team.

 

[Scooter]

another system

I was a team Captain for a couple of seasons but gave it up as it just too painful. Here is a system I came up with in my head - never used - not sure if people didn't understand it or just didn't like it. I think it is great - concentrates on the best players but lets everyone play and is a-political.

Let those players with the least CUMULATIVE losses play. The more you lose the less you play but you will still eventually get to play. Of course in APA you need to worry about handicaps so you fill in the slots with less losses from the top until you get a configuration which won't work and then you must skip over some till you get to one < 23. This treats everyone equally and avoids all the whining etc. Of course you don't get to do the magic with who is playing better today and who to match against who, but I personally don't think that makes much difference.

 

[MrLucky]

I captain an APA 8 team

and I try and give everyone equal playing time and match my players up so we have an opportunity to win ! This is a real balancing act but nobody said being a captain is easy! I only want team players on my team since 1 bad egg can spoil the whole omelet!

 

[RBLilly]

and I try and give everyone equal playing time and match my players up so we have an opportunity to win ! This is a real balancing act but nobody said being a captain is easy! I only want team players on my team since 1 bad egg can spoil the whole omelet!

You are quite right, and I hope the individual that threw his games comes to the realization that I won't put up with it. I hope he knows how serious I am about kicking someone off the team for not playing to their potential on purpose.

 

[Luxury]

This is an idea for you. I was captain and I wanted my best players to be my starting 5 at the big title-holders tournament where the money is up for grabs so I held a round robin tournament where everyone played everyone twice within my team and the top 5 guys with the best records would be my starting 5 for the weekend tournament but everyone would still come and split the winnings. It worked like a champ.

Just announce that it's not working out for everyone to get just a little bit of playing time so after the league match or on another day. everyone will play everyone. Your 3 best players will be happy because they will be confident that they will make it.

Oh yeah, Everyone also enjoyed putting in 5 bucks and there was 1st 2nd and 3rd place prize money.

Also we took second place at the title-holders tourney and I even paid guys that didn't show up but helped get us there.

 

[RBLilly]

Luxury

While that is a great idea Luxury I don't have the time to do that. If I did that with all 10 of us before league started this season that would be a different story. I just don't have the time to do it, and most everyone in here is right on the fact that the 4 players that said they would be subs should act like subs. If they wanted to play full time they could have told me upfront.

 

[rukiddingme]

I have captained an APA 8 Ball Team for

a number of years and have had teams that wanted to be together for fun and also have captained teams that "want to go to Vegas".
What kind of team do you have?
If it is for fun...everybody plays.
If it is serious, the better players play. You make matchups to win and you also make matchups that will lower the SL of marginal players at their handicap. The key is to have the SL's where you want them to be by playoff time. So as a captain you have to take a long term approach to the team.
If I'm up 3 zip in matches I'll throw my marginal player to the wolves.
Come playoffs I play the best players at their handicap period....sometimes that entails playing players who for whatever reason did not play a lot during the season. With a team of 8 people you have your regulars, your role players and hopefully a couple of superstars.
You hand hold, stroke egos and minimize drama. You are basically a playground monitor at recess...
FUN AIN"T IT!
ruk

 

[RBLilly]

a number of years and have had teams that wanted to be together for fun and also have captained teams that "want to go to Vegas".
What kind of team do you have?
If it is for fun...everybody plays.
If it is serious, the better players play. You make matchups to win and you also make matchups that will lower the SL of marginal players at their handicap. The key is to have the SL's where you want them to be by playoff time. So as a captain you have to take a long term approach to the team.
If I'm up 3 zip in matches I'll throw my marginal player to the wolves.
Come playoffs I play the best players at their handicap period....sometimes that entails playing players who for whatever reason did not play a lot during the season. With a team of 8 people you have your regulars, your role players and hopefully a couple of superstars.
You hand hold, stroke egos and minimize drama. You are basically a playground monitor at recess...
FUN AIN"T IT!
ruk

Well this is a bar league with no handicaps. So you are better to win every match you can, and go into the play offs with the highest score.

I thought this was supposed to be just a fun trophy league, but it is turning out that my 6 starters want to kick butt and take names.

So that being said I guess we are now out to win it all.

 

[poolnut]

point of view from the sub..

I'm not a captain, nor would I be a top caliber player on a good team. If your subs are your friends, they should be able to understand when you take them aside and tell them their playing time will be reduced. You don't necissarily need to tell them not to show up unless called, they may enjoy being there and shooting around on another table, or just being part of the win. Plus you never know when you might need a sub in an emergency situation. I guess what I'm saying is that if I were your sub and you came to me and told me you needed more playing time for your top guys, I would be fine with that. I'd still show up and support the other guys, and play when given the opportunity. You'd probably get better play out of your subs, as they'd be trying to earn more playing time. Whatever you decide, you need to take some initiative and stick with your decision. Doing nothing and letting the bickering go on will surely only make your situation worse.

 

[mailman]

Well I haven't decided yet what I am going to do,

All right -- enough hemmin' and hawin'!!! I run two different types of teams: one where EVERYONE gets equal play and one where the TOP SHOOTERS get ALL of the play. This depends upon the focus of your league.

The focus of your league appears to be COMPETITION and NOT playing time. Whether it's for money, trophies or just simply bragging rights DOES NOT MATTER -- what matters is that the FOCUS is competition! So, you play your TOP SHOOTERS and, sadly, to HELL with the subs. If they are truly friends, they will remember the conditions under which they originally joined the team and assume the proper posture. If they do not, then likely, they are NOT true friends as they are now trying to take advantage of you for their own selfish reasons -- just let them go their own way without hard feelings on your part and don't worry about what they think.

You have said your top 3 shooters are thinking about walking. REMEMBER, it is around THEM, yourself and one other good shooter that the concept and reality of your team was formed and now exists. It is obvious to me that your top 3 shooters' main priority is TO WIN. You, yourself, have admitted that you would be in 1st Place if you had played these regulars properly.

So now, you have also mentioned that nasty word, "Playoffs"! What happens then? You DO realize, don't you, that your subs now EXPECT to have a BIG ROLE in the playoffs since you have played them so liberally during the season. They now feel that it would be UNFAIR NOT TO PLAY them equally as liberally in the playoffs. To do so will absolutely SINK any chance your team might have of even placing in the top 4 of the playoffs, let alone winning it.

Remember, your main kernel WANTS TO WIN THE WHOLE THING, not just "get to participate" in them lofty ole playoffs. Again, around whom was your team originally established? HONOR them.

Right now, essentially, you now have NO team! As of now, DO THE RIGHT THING -- play your main 5-6 guys and use a sub ONLY when one of them either can't show up, or simply wants a night off.

 

[MrLucky]

This sounds like a recipe

All right -- enough hemmin' and hawin'!!! I run two different types of teams: one where EVERYONE gets equal play and one where the TOP SHOOTERS get ALL of the play. This depends upon the focus of your league.

The focus of your league appears to be COMPETITION and NOT playing time. Whether it's for money, trophies or just simply bragging rights DOES NOT MATTER -- what matters is that the FOCUS is competition! So, you play your TOP SHOOTERS and, sadly, to HELL with the subs. If they are truly friends, they will remember the conditions under which they originally joined the team and assume the proper posture. If they do not, then likely, they are NOT true friends as they are now trying to take advantage of you for their own selfish reasons -- just let them go their own way without hard feelings on your part and don't worry about what they think.

You have said your top 3 shooters are thinking about walking. REMEMBER, it is around THEM, yourself and one other good shooter that the concept and reality of your team was formed and now exists. It is obvious to me that your top 3 shooters' main priority is TO WIN. You, yourself, have admitted that you would be in 1st Place if you had played these regulars properly.

So now, you have also mentioned that nasty word, "Playoffs"! What happens then? You DO realize, don't you, that your subs now EXPECT to have a BIG ROLE in the playoffs since you have played them so liberally during the season. They now feel that it would be UNFAIR NOT TO PLAY them equally as liberally in the playoffs. To do so will absolutely SINK any chance your team might have of even placing in the top 4 of the playoffs, let alone winning it.

Remember, your main kernel WANTS TO WIN THE WHOLE THING, not just "get to participate" in them lofty ole playoffs. Again, around whom was your team originally established? HONOR them.

Right now, essentially, you now have NO team! As of now, DO THE RIGHT THING -- play your main 5-6 guys and use a sub ONLY when one of them either can't show up, or simply wants a night off.

for disaster! ever watch Mutiny on the bounty ? Captain Bligh? Folks sign up and play league pool in order to be a part of the team not to warm the bench never to play! you will be losing players very quickly IMO!

 

[RBLilly]

I did make a decision!

Well I did make a decision, here it is again for anyone that missed it.

Well I want to thank everyone for their opinions on this subject. I have come to a conclusion on what to do. So here is my decision to date. I have typed a letter to all players who are on the team. Everyone is receiving the same letter, and it doesn't mention names as far as who is complaining.

In other words the letter states that the involved parties know who they are. In the letter I state that almost everyone has complained about too many players per night. Which is true, in fact there has only been one night out of 11 that we have had less than 7 people.

Then I went on to say that if anyone else wants the Captain spot they can have it and I will gladly just be a player. (Nobody will step up and be Captain though, I am certain of this.) Then I went on to say that I offered Captain to two individuals at the beginning of the season, but neither one wanted it.

I then went on to say that if the regular players don't make it on time, or fail to call me and tell me they are running late, then they risk being replaced that night by a sub.

I also stated that the subs could sub for another team for the night if they weren't playing for us. Or if they wanted to play every week they could join another team.

Then I had to cover the issue of one of my players throwing games cause he was pissed. Basically I said that everyone is expendable and if games were thrown I wouldn't put up with it. They expect me to do what is right for the team, and I expect them to do what is right for the team.

Then I went so far as to figure out all the stats of each player, just to see how fair everything has or hasn't been. I figured out how many games each individual has played, how many nights they have played, how many wins they have, how many games per night they have played, how many games per night they have won, and finally their win percentage.

As to be expected my starting 6 which includes me, has the highest win percentages. We have one exception to that because one sub I didn't know before the season started. However, I can't kick off one of my original 6 and replace them with the good sub. That wouldn't be fair to my original 6 that agreed to play in the first place.

I am going to give the whole team this letter on Wed, and tell them that if they don't like it, they can be Captain, or they can walk off the team.
__________________
If they don't have a pool hall in heaven, then I ain't going!

 

[Snapshot9]

Well

that sounds pretty good, but still sounds like you are tiptoeing around the situation, in that, you did not come right out and state directly that the regular team members would play first before any subs .... Period.

And that if you did need a sub, the ones with the highest win percentage would be contacted first.

And if you still have crybabies, tell them to go join another team.

You're job, as captain, is to make decisions for the best interest of the team always. It is similiar to running a business. By letting these subs run over you, it is like you being a room owner, and your 'friends' are expecting free pool all the time.

On my teams I have captained, 20 years worth, you had to earn your spot on the team, regular members and subs. I don't carry 'weak sisters' on my teams, and if you can not pull your weight, then some other team might be for you. That's just the way it is, I don't like 3rd, 4th, or lower in a league, I expect 1st, or 2nd at the very lowest.

I captained my teams, and I am the anchor man. If the match comes down to the final game or matchup, I take responsibility for taking us over the top to win the match.

 

[RBLilly]

Sorry

Well in my letter I did tell them that the 6 starters are going to be the ones to play.

The only exception to that rule is if they are running late and fail to contact me in advance about it.

Sorry I didn't include that in my post, but I did put that in my letter to the team.

 

[supergreenman]

that sounds pretty good, but still sounds like you are tiptoeing around the situation, in that, you did not come right out and state directly that the regular team members would play first before any subs .... Period.

And that if you did need a sub, the ones with the highest win percentage would be contacted first.

And if you still have crybabies, tell them to go join another team.

You're job, as captain, is to make decisions for the best interest of the team always. It is similiar to running a business. By letting these subs run over you, it is like you being a room owner, and your 'friends' are expecting free pool all the time.

On my teams I have captained, 20 years worth, you had to earn your spot on the team, regular members and subs. I don't carry 'weak sisters' on my teams, and if you can not pull your weight, then some other team might be for you. That's just the way it is, I don't like 3rd, 4th, or lower in a league, I expect 1st, or 2nd at the very lowest.

I captained my teams, and I am the anchor man. If the match comes down to the final game or matchup, I take responsibility for taking us over the top to win the match.

Ricky Bobby said it best.....

If you're not first, you're last. I still maintain a captian has to rule with an iron fist.

 

[RBLilly]

Thanks

Thanks Super Green

 

[mailman]

Recipe for Disaster?

... Folks sign up and play league pool in order to be a part of the team not to warm the bench never to play! you will be losing players very quickly IMO!

I DID mention that I run TWO different teams -- one for COMPETITION where the top shooters do the most possible shooting, and one where EVERYONE gets an equal amount of playing time. I also said this depends upon the FOCUS of the league/team.

So, your feelings would be true in the case of my 2nd team where everyone gets equal playing time -- this is a RECREATIONAL (not serious) team in a recreational/instructional league.

However, txplshrk's team was assembled to be highly COMPETITIVE in a highly COMPETITIVE league. He also stated that the "extras" originally knew that they were being brought on as SUBS, ONLY! His situation merely got a little out of hand, and he now needs to reel everybody back in.

Now, when you consider this last point, I would handle this situation EXACTLY in the frame of mind I said, and I MOST CERTAINLY would not lose the entire team. After the dust settled, the original 6 (at least) would still be there to do what they came to do in the first place -- WIN!!! Why? Because they will know that I stood up for them and did the right thing. The others will realize this, also.

I have been in this situation before -- just ONCE! -- like txplshrk now is. I learned from this and he now is learning from this also. What I said is what you HAVE to do in this situation. I am certainly no autocrat like Cpt. Bligh, even in situations like this. I am also no real "soft touch," either. Face-to-face, I am, nonetheless, quite diplomatic, reasonable and in control through the course of such situations, and am very capable of kindly showing everyone concerned the "right" solution and getting them all to accept it.

Supergreenman's right -- if you're a captain, you have to rule with an iron fist -- I just believe it's enough to show it occasionally and that one doesn't necessarily need to use it .

 

[mailman]

Re: Your Final Decision

Thanks Super Green

I did see the original post of your final decision. Sadly, this was not until after I had posted my thoughts on the subject. I'm with Supergreenman and Snapshot Scott on this, too.

I think your letter was a great and very creative solution, especially where you are now going to use your "non-playing" subs as leverage to make sure your regulars show up when they're supposed to.

This is actually pretty interesting -- let us all know how this turns out!

Best of luck to you!

 

[catscradle]

To my way of thinking it boils down to what is the purpose of the team. You must define it and the purpose will tell you exactly what to do. If the ultimate purpose is to win, then you play the best players and subs play when they get the chance. If the purpose of the team is to just have fun and damn the winning, then everybody gets equal time. Once you've define the purpose of the team which in turn defines your strategy towards playing time, then just tell the rest of the team and they can individually choose to stay or leave. The only catch is that some people who maybe were part of the founding members may find they don't like the strategy decided upon and I guess that isn't fair to them.
It sucks being captain, but some people get off on it. Sounds like you're doing it because if you don't nobody will.
Good luck, but whatever you decide don't fret over it. Once you've announced the purpose and strategy, then you're done. Just implement the strategy.

<EDIT> "A day late and a dollar short." Just read your post about the letter, guess you implemented a solution. Hope it works out okay.