I'm starting to learn the different strokes in pool and as I play more I begin to understand the need to understand the Punch Stroke more and more. You use it so much. I broke and ran two racks in a row yesterday for the first time ever; man it felt good. As I play I'm starting to think about the stroke i'm going to use on the shots and I've stopped think about making it. It just goes to the hole. any pointers on other stroke techniques? Thanks Walter N.
Learning different strokes in pool
- Thread starter Walter N.
- Start date
drivermaker
Banned
Walter N. said:
What other strokes do you know of at this point and what is your understanding of how they're performed?
Two Strokes
I teach, when I do teach, two strokes. A stop-stroke that is timed early, and a follow-thru stroke that is timed late. That will be the simplest definition you will ever hear. Sounds easy, but I have been working on the differences for 40 years. Many people in the game, the great instructor Robert Byrne being one, state that there is only 1 stroke. Through the years we have had friendly arguments that resulted in neither of us budging. I could have built a better case if I would have divulged some of the secrets of the 2 strokes but I am smarter than that. Proving your case in an argument is how fools give up their knowledge.
Freddy the Beard
Walter N. said:
I teach, when I do teach, two strokes. A stop-stroke that is timed early, and a follow-thru stroke that is timed late. That will be the simplest definition you will ever hear. Sounds easy, but I have been working on the differences for 40 years. Many people in the game, the great instructor Robert Byrne being one, state that there is only 1 stroke. Through the years we have had friendly arguments that resulted in neither of us budging. I could have built a better case if I would have divulged some of the secrets of the 2 strokes but I am smarter than that. Proving your case in an argument is how fools give up their knowledge.
Freddy the Beard
Well...
With a follow stroke I noticed that you can make the ball go forword even if you hit the ball low with a consistent follow through and stay on the cue ball longer. I'm also learning that when you shorten your bridge Length it makes a difference in how the stroke will reacted.
With a follow stroke I noticed that you can make the ball go forword even if you hit the ball low with a consistent follow through and stay on the cue ball longer. I'm also learning that when you shorten your bridge Length it makes a difference in how the stroke will reacted.
drivermaker
Banned
freddy the beard said:
Just out of curiosity, how would you classify a drag draw, a slip stroke, or stroke slip (throw stroke) in those two classifications?
Although, based on the limited explanation that you've given, I might be able to take a pretty educated guess myself.
freddy the beard said:
My personal feeling is that there are SOME people who can learn to play with only one type of stroke. My favorite example of this is Allison Fisher; watch her play closely, especially her follow through. She hits almost everything, including table-length draw shots, with only about 8 inches of follow through. Of course it helps she is always playing in tournaments on tables with brand new cloth and clean balls, but even so she exemplifies the "single stance, single bridge, single setup, single stroke, single follow-through" type of player.
Others, especially a lot of top US male pros, seem to almost take pains to use multiple types of strokes. But they still make the balls, or else they would not be top Pros, which clearly indicates that they have learnt and are comfortable with multiple different types of mechanics. Many amateur players I've seen make the mistake of emulating this and following up good shots with bad shots using a mechanics they are not practiced or comfortable with.
Drag draw, Slip-Stroke and Stroke-slip
You are getting me to do what I said only a fool would do to justify his opinions. By explaining myself I am leaking more and more. However, what you ask is pretty much basic: A drag draw, if you can picture the stroke is long (follow-thru) and slow(late). A slip-stroke is usually a stop-stroke as you slip your grip hand back and then close it(stop) quickly(early) as the stick moves forward. A stroke-slip ( I am going to explain this only because you are an astute enough student to even recognize that there is a difference. You go to the head of the class. Maybe only 5% of players realize that there even is a stroke-slip stroke. No one has asked me about it in 25 years. This stroke is the opposite of the slip-stroke because as you bring the stick forward your grip hand releases the stick and goes backward on the stick and your hand does not quickly close on the butt. The stick is propelled forward through it's own inertia and because it goes forward unchecked -- guess what-- it results in a follow-thru stroke! If I released this info in the Golf world this brain-drain would probably get me a Miller-Lite commercial. In our pool world I'll probably get 3 thank-you's and 10 knocks.
No matter. Hope I could help.
The Beard
drivermaker said:
You are getting me to do what I said only a fool would do to justify his opinions. By explaining myself I am leaking more and more. However, what you ask is pretty much basic: A drag draw, if you can picture the stroke is long (follow-thru) and slow(late). A slip-stroke is usually a stop-stroke as you slip your grip hand back and then close it(stop) quickly(early) as the stick moves forward. A stroke-slip ( I am going to explain this only because you are an astute enough student to even recognize that there is a difference. You go to the head of the class. Maybe only 5% of players realize that there even is a stroke-slip stroke. No one has asked me about it in 25 years. This stroke is the opposite of the slip-stroke because as you bring the stick forward your grip hand releases the stick and goes backward on the stick and your hand does not quickly close on the butt. The stick is propelled forward through it's own inertia and because it goes forward unchecked -- guess what-- it results in a follow-thru stroke! If I released this info in the Golf world this brain-drain would probably get me a Miller-Lite commercial. In our pool world I'll probably get 3 thank-you's and 10 knocks.
No matter. Hope I could help.
The Beard
freddy the beard said:
Does this also relate to getting maximum side/english? I have noticed for a while I want to get maximum throw on the object ball and/or spin off a rail with the cue ball I deliberately loosen my grip to the point I am only just holding it although I do not let it actually slip along the handle during the stroke.
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freddy the beard said:
Although I don't completly agree with what is written, we'll just leave it at that. There are to many variables to discuss in detail. However the mention of a stroke-slip has been confused by many especially the newer generation. They have it confused with a slip-stroke, of course which is light years apart. There is only one slip-stroke, with variables of course and stroke slip is another matter, but there not related. Not only that the effect obtained is different.
Rod
Rod
Splinterhands
Banned
Bump it up.
freddy the beard said:
Freddy,
While at DCC this year I spoke with Danny D. (who I have taken some lessons from in the past), and he was VERY complimentary regarding your game and expertise. Thanks for participating on the forum.
Speaking as someone who grew up in a period where pool secrets were jealously guarded, I am very happy to see good pool information shared in books, tapes, and forums such as this. Please post a link or info about where we can purchase one of your books - and feel free to "leak" info here any time you want.
P.S. - the posters that do the knocking on this forum are to be ignored, the true pool fanatics really appreciate the participation of players like yourself.
drivermaker
Banned
freddy the beard said:
I'll be wearing the gold star on my forehead proudly for as long as it stays on.
Hopefully it covers a wrinkle or aging spot.
Maybe the reason why nobody asked you about it in 25 years, especially here, is because they haven't even reached that age yet. In my case, I've been using all of those strokes for a good bit longer than 25 years.
BTW...don't be too concerned about leaking or divulging information. They won't make use of it, or, they'll just say you don't know what the hell you're talking about. It's always fun to have some young punk that hasn't played for very long or done jack-shit with their life calling you an asshole or that you have no clue what you're talking about and can't shoot worth a damn.
Keep posting and leaking info...it'll cleanse your soul.
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Dont agree?
The Beard
What is it you dont agree with. Did you read what I said? All you did in your reply was confirm everything that I had said earlier. I said they were different and explained the differences.Rod said:
The Beard
How to order Banking With The Beard
To order Banking With The Beard call for an autographed copy at 312 225 5514 or email me at fbentivegna@sbcglobal.net The book cost $29.95 plus $4 shipping. Its 220 pages of stories, diagrams, systems and secrets.
Freddy The Beard
Williebetmore said:
To order Banking With The Beard call for an autographed copy at 312 225 5514 or email me at fbentivegna@sbcglobal.net The book cost $29.95 plus $4 shipping. Its 220 pages of stories, diagrams, systems and secrets.
Freddy The Beard
freddy the beard said:
When do you use these particular strokes? For what purpose? I have noticed several players using these strokes on snooker tables with very tight pockets where they were able to make shots that "didn't go" yet for some reason they went using the slip. Are there particular situations in 9 ball, 1 pocket or straight pool where you are better off using one or the other?
Wayne
freddy the beard said:
However, what you ask is pretty much basic: A drag draw, if you can picture the stroke is long (follow-thru) and slow(late).
I agree with this and should have left it out.
A slip-stroke is usually a stop-stroke as you slip your grip hand back and then close it(stop) quickly(early) as the stick moves forward.
Maybe I'm missing the context in which its written. Because you close your hand, I don't understand the early timing. A slip stroke has a full long follow-thru and late timing as well. Just because you close your hand doesn't mean its early timing. Help me understand what your trying to say if you don't agree. Of course I read your post.
Maybe only 5% of players realize that there even is a stroke-slip stroke. No one has asked me about it in 25 years. This stroke is the opposite of the slip-stroke because as you bring the stick forward your grip hand releases the stick and goes backward on the stick and your hand does not quickly close on the butt. The stick is propelled forward through it's own inertia and because it goes forward unchecked -- guess what-- it results in a follow-thru stroke!
It can follow-thru under its initial enertia by your hand/arm of course. Although its follow-thru is less simply because the weight of your arm is not attached. In fact it can serve as a deadining (is there such a word) effect to kill a cue ball.
Could be i'm missing your point, but I don't think so. I play with a slip-stroke but a stroke-slip, other than it slipping in your hand after contact on a normal follow-thru is not seen very often. Which isn't a stroke-slip. Its just a light grip after impact. I'm all ears if I missed something.
Rod
freddy, if you have come highly recomended by willie then let me ask this? I am in the chicago area, wanna do a lesson? I got a 9' GCIII at my house.
Jordan
Jordan
S
sonia
Guest
freddy the beard said:
THIS IS NOT NEWS TO PLAYERS I KNOW. NO MILLER-LITE COMMERCIAL HERE. TRY AGAIN.
SONIA
S
sonia
Guest
wayne said:
INSTEAD OF FIXATING ON STROKES, FIRST LEARN TO POCKET, BANK, CAROM, COMBO BALLS, ACCURATELY AND CONSISTENTLY. THAT'S THE NAME OF THE GAME. STROKES DO NOT POCKET BALLS, ACCURACY AND CONSISTENCY DOES.
SONIA
Call me when you get to Chicago
Email me at fbentivegna@sbcglobal.net. and we will talk about it. Know beforehand, I'll help a player, and I sometimes give lessons but I haven't done it in at least 4 years because I am very selective when it comes to a student.
the Beard
prewarhero said:
Email me at fbentivegna@sbcglobal.net. and we will talk about it. Know beforehand, I'll help a player, and I sometimes give lessons but I haven't done it in at least 4 years because I am very selective when it comes to a student.
the Beard