left english vs right english

[z0nt0n3r]

hi everyone, does anybody else find it more difficult to put on the english required from one side and also find it easier to put on english from the other? this also causes you to have more difficulty potting balls when using english from your weak side. (my weak side is left english).
assuming you have found your correct head position over the cue, why would this happen?

 

[BilliardsAbout]

hi everyone, does anybody else find it more difficult to put on the english required from one side and also find it easier to put on english from the other? this also causes you to have more difficulty potting balls when using english from your weak side. (my weak side is left english).
assuming you have found your correct head position over the cue, why would this happen?

Many players have a strong preference for either right or left English (and topspin or draw).

If your vision center is correctly above the shot line, you may be making mishits due to a wrist twist or other motion. Share a video here and both myself and other instructors will offer advice.

 

[BC21]

Is it left vs right english, or "inside" vs "outside"? There's a difference.

Most players have more trouble pocketing balls with "inside" english, rather than "outside". Maybe it's because the inside looks and feels unnatural. I mean, when cutting the ball to the right, applying right english looks and feels a bit odd. Same goes with applying left english when cutting the ball to the left.

Using outside english (left spin with a cut shot to the right, or right spin with a cut to the left), looks and feels more natural, more normal. If it looks and feels normal, then our aiming compensation looks and feels more normal.

The good news is this: There is a certain range of stroke speed that will allow you to use inside or outside spin more consistently, meaning your aiming compensations will be easier to judge and apply, regardless of left or right or inside or outside english. That magical range falls under medium speed.

Dr. Dave has some great info on cb squirt and swerve, the two things that happen when applying side spin. Example: A cut shot to the right with inside (right) spin causes the cb to squirt off-line to the left, but then it will begin to swerve back to the right. The goal is to ensure that the combination of squirt and swerve results in the cb pocketing the ob. This is where aiming compensation comes in, which is another way of saying "guesswork".

A soft stroke speed causes more swerve to occur before the cb hits the ob, so we have to compensate quite a bit for that when aiming the shot. A firm stroke speed will cause the cb to squirt too far off-line for the swerve to have a chance to correct the cb's path, and so we have to compensate for that. But with a little table time you can experiment with stroke speed and english to find the speed that basically cancels out the squirt and swerve factors.

Of course, sometimes you'll have to use english with a soft stroke, and other times with a firm stroke. So knowing how to compensate for that is important. But figuring out the range of speed where very little to no compensation is needed, well, that's the nuts.

Thousands of players have switched to a LD carbon fiber shaft for that very reason, because the shaft reduces squirt so much that it widens the speed range/window where very little to no aiming compensation is needed.

 

[FranCrimi]

Sounds like your left eye may be your dominant eye. This is normal when you place your cue under your dominant eye. It's not a big deal to just train yourself to aim farther out on the cb than you think you need when applying left English. I have had to do that with myself with my strongly dominant right eye when applying right English. I don't even think about it anymore because I make the adjustment automatically.

Edit: You may also find that your sighting of center ball is a little off as well. Just make the slight aim adjustment rather than your head. It's much better than trying to force your head to a place that it doesn't want to go. It will start to slip back anyway, so save yourself some trouble.

 

[3kushn]

I was told by a US National 3C Champ that nearly everyone has a weak side. Normally for a right handed player Left hand English would be the weak side. His theory/explanation was (with a closed bridge) there's more support against your hand than forefinger & thumb. When you strike the ball with L/R English the shaft tends to deflect one way or the other.

Maybe all BS, but that's what he believed and thought he observed, and he was talking about a players Maximum Spin.
He also said the phenomena could be overcome with work.
One thing to work on was a more solid bridge.

I suppose someone here would think of Snooker players with their open bridge. I don't think top snooker players go to the miscue limit very often.
Maybe wrong here too, even though I watch a lot of snooker.

 

[tomatoshooter]

hi everyone, does anybody else find it more difficult to put on the english required from one side and also find it easier to put on english from the other? this also causes you to have more difficulty potting balls when using english from your weak side. (my weak side is left english).
assuming you have found your correct head position over the cue, why would this happen?

Are you left handed?

Sometimes my right handed stroke gets a little weird when using right English. I'm unintentionally pulling the butt off my cue closer to my body. Being more conscious of my stance helps.

Most players have more trouble pocketing balls with "inside" english, rather than "outside"

I've definitely experienced that. For a lot of shots the deflection, swerve, and spin induced throw cancel out and very little correction is necessary, often the width of the pocket makes it unnecessary.

 

[z0nt0n3r]

Is it left vs right english, or "inside" vs "outside"? There's a difference.

Most players have more trouble pocketing balls with "inside" english, rather than "outside". Maybe it's because the inside looks and feels unnatural. I mean, when cutting the ball to the right, applying right english looks and feels a bit odd. Same goes with applying left english when cutting the ball to the left.

Using outside english (left spin with a cut shot to the right, or right spin with a cut to the left), looks and feels more natural, more normal. If it looks and feels normal, then our aiming compensation looks and feels more normal.

The good news is this: There is a certain range of stroke speed that will allow you to use inside or outside spin more consistently, meaning your aiming compensations will be easier to judge and apply, regardless of left or right or inside or outside english. That magical range falls under medium speed.

Dr. Dave has some great info on cb squirt and swerve, the two things that happen when applying side spin. Example: A cut shot to the right with inside (right) spin causes the cb to squirt off-line to the left, but then it will begin to swerve back to the right. The goal is to ensure that the combination of squirt and swerve results in the cb pocketing the ob. This is where aiming compensation comes in, which is another way of saying "guesswork".

A soft stroke speed causes more swerve to occur before the cb hits the ob, so we have to compensate quite a bit for that when aiming the shot. A firm stroke speed will cause the cb to squirt too far off-line for the swerve to have a chance to correct the cb's path, and so we have to compensate for that. But with a little table time you can experiment with stroke speed and english to find the speed that basically cancels out the squirt and swerve factors.

Of course, sometimes you'll have to use english with a soft stroke, and other times with a firm stroke. So knowing how to compensate for that is important. But figuring out the range of speed where very little to no compensation is needed, well, that's the nuts.

Thousands of players have switched to a LD carbon fiber shaft for that very reason, because the shaft reduces squirt so much that it widens the speed range/window where very little to no aiming compensation is needed.

i'm talking about left outside english vs right outside english

 

[z0nt0n3r]

Are you left handed?

Sometimes my right handed stroke gets a little weird when using right English. I'm unintentionally pulling the butt off my cue closer to my body. Being more conscious of my stance helps.

I've definitely experienced that. For a lot of shots the deflection, swerve, and spin induced throw cancel out and very little correction is necessary, often the width of the pocket makes it unnecessary.

no, i'm right handed

 

[z0nt0n3r]

Sounds like your left eye may be your dominant eye. This is normal when you place your cue under your dominant eye. It's not a big deal to just train yourself to aim farther out on the cb than you think you need when applying left English. I have had to do that with myself with my strongly dominant right eye when applying right English. I don't even think about it anymore because I make the adjustment automatically.

Edit: You may also find that your sighting of center ball is a little off as well. Just make the slight aim adjustment rather than your head. It's much better than trying to force your head to a place that it doesn't want to go. It will start to slip back anyway, so save yourself some trouble.

i think the solution is simple, i need to aim further to the left of the CB than i think as you say. i tried it a couple of days ago in practice and the shot picture looked a little odd and also it made the shot more difficult so it needs more practice.

 

[z0nt0n3r]

I was told by a US National 3C Champ that nearly everyone has a weak side. Normally for a right handed player Left hand English would be the weak side. His theory/explanation was (with a closed bridge) there's more support against your hand than forefinger & thumb. When you strike the ball with L/R English the shaft tends to deflect one way or the other.

Maybe all BS, but that's what he believed and thought he observed, and he was talking about a players Maximum Spin.
He also said the phenomena could be overcome with work.
One thing to work on was a more solid bridge.

I suppose someone here would think of Snooker players with their open bridge. I don't think top snooker players go to the miscue limit very often.
Maybe wrong here too, even though I watch a lot of snooker.

yes, i agree about every player having a good and a weak side, so i guess you need to practice your weak side a lot.

 

[FranCrimi]

i think the solution is simple, i need to aim further to the left of the CB than i think as you say. i tried it a couple of days ago in practice and the shot picture looked a little odd and also it made the shot more difficult so it needs more practice.

Yup. Just like anything --- you need to practice it until it becomes natural.

 

[dquarasr]

Most players have more trouble pocketing balls with "inside" english, rather than "outside". Maybe it's because the inside looks and feels unnatural.

I have a heck of a time with inside English.

Far too often I overcut when I use inside. Which makes no sense; outside cancels throw and makes the cut angle more severe, so I would think inside would open the angle, but for some reason I have not yet figured out, I end up often overcutting.

It must be some sort of perception problem for me. I don’t think it’s because of squirt because for me I actually overcut more often on short shots than I do on long shots. It’s weird.

That said, I am learning to adjust my aim when using inside so I quit overcutting. Practice, practice, practice.

 

[BC21]

I have a heck of a time with inside English.

Far too often I overcut when I use inside. Which makes no sense; outside cancels throw and makes the cut angle more severe, so I would think inside would open the angle, but for some reason I have not yet figured out, I end up often overcutting.

It must be some sort of perception problem for me. I don’t think it’s because of squirt because for me I actually overcut more often on short shots than I do on long shots. It’s weird.

That said, I am learning to adjust my aim when using inside so I quit overcutting. Practice, practice, practice.

The overcut is likely due to cb squirt. Try decreasing the speed and see if that helps. That will allow the swerve to work more in your favor, rather than the cb deflextion/squirt to control the outcome so much.

 

[BilliardsAbout]

Is it left vs right english, or "inside" vs "outside"? There's a difference.

Most players have more trouble pocketing balls with "inside" english, rather than "outside". Maybe it's because the inside looks and feels unnatural. I mean, when cutting the ball to the right, applying right english looks and feels a bit odd. Same goes with applying left english when cutting the ball to the left.

Using outside english (left spin with a cut shot to the right, or right spin with a cut to the left), looks and feels more natural, more normal. If it looks and feels normal, then our aiming compensation looks and feels more normal.

The good news is this: There is a certain range of stroke speed that will allow you to use inside or outside spin more consistently, meaning your aiming compensations will be easier to judge and apply, regardless of left or right or inside or outside english. That magical range falls under medium speed.

Dr. Dave has some great info on cb squirt and swerve, the two things that happen when applying side spin. Example: A cut shot to the right with inside (right) spin causes the cb to squirt off-line to the left, but then it will begin to swerve back to the right. The goal is to ensure that the combination of squirt and swerve results in the cb pocketing the ob. This is where aiming compensation comes in, which is another way of saying "guesswork".

A soft stroke speed causes more swerve to occur before the cb hits the ob, so we have to compensate quite a bit for that when aiming the shot. A firm stroke speed will cause the cb to squirt too far off-line for the swerve to have a chance to correct the cb's path, and so we have to compensate for that. But with a little table time you can experiment with stroke speed and english to find the speed that basically cancels out the squirt and swerve factors.

Of course, sometimes you'll have to use english with a soft stroke, and other times with a firm stroke. So knowing how to compensate for that is important. But figuring out the range of speed where very little to no compensation is needed, well, that's the nuts.

Thousands of players have switched to a LD carbon fiber shaft for that very reason, because the shaft reduces squirt so much that it widens the speed range/window where very little to no aiming compensation is needed.

For the physical motion of the stroke, I prefer applying right over left. I know others who are the same.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

For the physical motion of the stroke, I prefer applying right over left.

You stroke them differently?

pj
chgo

 

[BC21]

For the physical motion of the stroke, I prefer applying right over left. I know others who are the same.

It feels and looks no different to me, right or left english. Maybe it's an eye-dominance thing.

Inside english, however, is a different little monster. It requires more table time to become more familiar and consistent when using it.

 

[Zerksies]

i'm talking about left outside english vs right outside english

I would say then their is a flaw in your stroke that needs to be fixed

 

[Patrick Johnson]

It feels and looks no different to me, right or left english.

There is no difference. If you got into your stance for right english and then moved the CB an inch or two to the right you could (and should) use the same stance/stroke for left english. In both cases you're just trying to hit a spot on the CB with a straight stroke - left or right side should make no difference.

pj
chgo

 

[BilliardsAbout]

For straight english strokes, the sensation is nearly identical. For twist english strokes, most right-handers find it easier to supinate the stroke hand wrist than to pronate it.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

For straight english strokes, the sensation is nearly identical. For twist english strokes, most right-handers find it easier to supinate the stroke hand wrist than to pronate it.

“Most right-handers” know better than to use “twist english strokes”.

pj
chgo