Legacy pool tables cushions

[MSmithAZ]

Hey folks,

Buying my first table and going for an 8' as anything larger will be tight for the room. Used market around me doesn't have much that I'm in love with, so think I'm going new. My budget with delivery and install is at the 3.5k mark ideally +350 for some 860 felt. There is some wiggle room in that though. I came across the Legacy Mesa table. Surprisingly, the construction seems very solid despite being an overseas table. No veneers, no mdf, good cross beams, good corners, etc. I know the choice of wood may vary, but it has some good weight to it also at around 750 lbs. Is it a diamond in the rough by chance? But here's my real question....If I went with the Legacy Mesa, how are the cushions? With some 860 felt and a good mechanic for the setup, can I get this thing playing really well? Or would the cushions be holding me back? Should I plan to just replace them from the get go? How about the pockets? Anyone know?

Here's a video (fast forwarded to the proper spot), showing the construction if interested:

It's not a mesa, but hopefully comparable.

Thanks

 

[garczar]

Hey folks,

Buying my first table and going for an 8' as anything larger will be tight for the room. Used market around me doesn't have much that I'm in love with, so think I'm going new. My budget with delivery and install is at the 3.5k mark ideally +350 for some 860 felt. There is some wiggle room in that though. I came across the Legacy Mesa table. Surprisingly, the construction seems very solid despite being an overseas table. No veneers, no mdf, good cross beams, good corners, etc. I know the choice of wood may vary, but it has some good weight to it also at around 750 lbs. Is it a diamond in the rough by chance? But here's my real question....If I went with the Legacy Mesa, how are the cushions? With some 860 felt and a good mechanic for the setup, can I get this thing playing really well? Or would the cushions be holding me back? Should I plan to just replace them from the get go? How about the pockets? Anyone know?

Here's a video (fast forwarded to the proper spot), showing the construction if interested:

It's not a mesa, but hopefully comparable.

Thanks

How big a hurry you in? Reason i ask is that's a lot for an import home-table. Try to find a 8ft or OS 8ft Gold Crown. Probably be less than half what you're looking at. If you do buy it i wouldn't upgrade it as you'll never recoup anything close to what you're going to have in it. You can tighten the pockets by shimming pretty easy if you want to. You can find used tables like this for 500-800bux.

 

[MSmithAZ]

Yeah, I've been looking for a while. In about 3 months time, I've only come across one 8' GC III near me, but it was an oversized which is probably pushing it over the edge for my room. The 9's go for 3k delivered and installed near me in decent shape or 4k restored, so it's similar ballpark price wise. There's a wife factor too, and she was less in love with the looks of the GC's. The compromise I got was if we go Furniture, we get something near black with tapered legs. I'd take very dark wood too though with tapered legs. But with those requirements, the used market is pretty sparse. I'm not too concerned with resale though, because I view it as a 20 year table, and really nothing seems to hold any value anyway (except like a diamond of course). The Legacy looks like decent craftsmanship though. Seems better than the newer Brunswick furnitures. Maybe not as good as an Olhausen, but good enough? I'm no expert though...just someone that's been doing research.

 

[garczar]

Yeah, I've been looking for a while. In about 3 months time, I've only come across one 8' GC III near me, but it was an oversized which is probably pushing it over the edge for my room. The 9's go for 3k delivered and installed near me in decent shape or 4k restored, so it's similar ballpark price wise. There's a wife factor too, and she was less in love with the looks of the GC's. The compromise I got was if we go Furniture, we get something near black with tapered legs. I'd take very dark wood too though with tapered legs. But with those requirements, the used market is pretty sparse. I'm not too concerned with resale though, because I view it as a 20 year table, and really nothing seems to hold any value anyway (except like a diamond of course). The Legacy looks like decent craftsmanship though. Seems better than the newer Brunswick furnitures. Maybe not as good as an Olhausen, but good enough? I'm no expert though...just someone that's been doing research.

I hear ya. Happy wife, happy...... Get good cloth and enjoy it. Tightening pockets is not hard(if that's what you're thinking). Any decent mech should be able to shim it. I wouldn't even think of extending the rails.

 

[rexus31]

Hey folks,

Buying my first table and going for an 8' as anything larger will be tight for the room. Used market around me doesn't have much that I'm in love with, so think I'm going new. My budget with delivery and install is at the 3.5k mark ideally +350 for some 860 felt. There is some wiggle room in that though. I came across the Legacy Mesa table. Surprisingly, the construction seems very solid despite being an overseas table. No veneers, no mdf, good cross beams, good corners, etc. I know the choice of wood may vary, but it has some good weight to it also at around 750 lbs. Is it a diamond in the rough by chance? But here's my real question....If I went with the Legacy Mesa, how are the cushions? With some 860 felt and a good mechanic for the setup, can I get this thing playing really well? Or would the cushions be holding me back? Should I plan to just replace them from the get go? How about the pockets? Anyone know?

Here's a video (fast forwarded to the proper spot), showing the construction if interested:

It's not a mesa, but hopefully comparable.

Thanks

I understand the wife factor but if you are a serious player, I'd shy away from an import furniture style table. IMO, the construction of that table is not all that stout. The weight of 750 pounds is not all that heavy in terms of a pool table. By comparison, a standard 8' Gold Crown weighs 1,120 pounds. More mass equals better playability not to mention the design and construction of the rails is far superior. If it were me, I'd sell the wife hard on the Gold Crown and be patient in finding one. I'd shy away from the "dealers" as you re going to pay a premium. Scour the Craigslist and OfferUp postings in your area and hire a qualified mechanic to move and setup. The good thing about searching for an 8' Gold Crown is most of them were not in pool rooms and were home tables so most will not be abused. You should be able to score a nice table for around $2,500 max including setup, delivery and new cloth. What are the dimensions of the room you will be putting it in?

 

[rexus31]

For comparison purposes, this is what a Gold Crown looks like with the frame and pedestals setup. These tables are made to last a lifetime. Import furniture grade tables, not so much.

 

[MSmithAZ]

Did they make a straight 8' GC? Since I've been searching (a few months) I've only come across one 8' GC but it was an oversized 8'. My basement is large but I've got 3 lally columns that divide it into 2 sides. Two of those lally columns are gonna interfere at times. I'll just have to get a 48" cue to occasionally break out. I have 13' 5.5" to the lally column. I plan to put 5' of space, along the wall, which leaves 57.5" to the lally column. If I add an extra 2" to the table for an oversized, I'll be breaking out that shortie a lot more often I think, and all the time if I go 9'.

I should say though, I'm not a serious player. In fact, I'm basically just someone that played on a 6' a bunch when I was 16 and then only got the opportunity to play once every few years since then (now I'm 42). I'm not bad, but compared to anyone here I'm just a beginner. But I'll have this table for 20+ years and can't wait to play, so I will be getting better and do want a table I can grow in to. I'm finishing the room now and the walls just went up...can't wait.

 

[rexus31]

Did they make a straight 8' GC? Since I've been searching (a few months) I've only come across one 8' GC but it was an oversized 8'. My basement is large but I've got 3 lally columns that divide it into 2 sides. Two of those lally columns are gonna interfere at times. I'll just have to get a 48" cue to occasionally break out. I have 13' 5.5" to the lally column. I plan to put 5' of space, along the wall, which leaves 57.5" to the lally column. If I add an extra 2" to the table for an oversized, I'll be breaking out that shortie a lot more often I think, and all the time if I go 9'.

Yes, they did make a standard 8' Gold Crown. How large is the column in question and how often do you think it will come into play? I've got a 9' Gold Crown in my 18' x 18' garage. Shots on either end rail require the use of a "shorty" but I'd say those shots come up less than 10% of the time. You can probably cheat the two inches in question on the 5' side and be fine with an OS 8'.

I should say though, I'm not a serious player. In fact, I'm basically just someone that played on a 6' a bunch when I was 16 and then only got the opportunity to play once every few years since then (now I'm 42). I'm not bad, but compared to anyone here I'm just a beginner. But I'll have this table for 20+ years and can't wait to play, so I will be getting better and do want a table I can grow in to. I'm finishing the room now and the walls just went up...can't wait.

If you are planing to keep the table for an extended period of time and plan to play regularly and improve your skill level, you'd be best served with a Gold Crown or similar commercial table. As you improve, you will find the Legacy will not play to your liking and you will most likely want to upgrade in a few years. When you do, the Legacy is going to be EXTREMELY difficult to sell and you will take a serious bath if you pay $3,500 all in for one. If you want a one and done purchase, I highly recommend a Gold Crown. The added bonus is if you lose interest the Gold Crown is waaaay more sought after and an easier table to sell.

 

[MSmithAZ]

It's very tempting. Wife agreed to the GC and has grown a liking to the look, but finding an 8' is proving difficult (re: impossible). I called one place that had 2 GC IV's online about 10 hours away that were 8' OS. Said he sold both of them for $9500. By me the GC's go for 1/2 that at top dollar. There's a couple more I found about 15 hours away, and will call them but will obviously only work if they do nationwide delivery, which most don't for used.

I'm surprised that if you have a table of decent weight (700+ lbs) with decent sized rails and 1" slate and decent cushions with similar sized pockets/cuts as a GC that it wouldn't play near identical. But I know little about the construction, so guess it would be like trying to make a Toyota drive like a Porche by simply replacing the engines and seats...ain't gonna happen.

Oh you asked about my columns. They are 3.5" and there are 2 that may pose an issue.

 

[rexus31]

It's very tempting. Wife agreed to the GC and has grown a liking to the look, but finding an 8' is proving difficult (re: impossible). I called one place that had 2 GC IV's online about 10 hours away that were 8' OS. Said he sold both of them for $9500. By me the GC's go for 1/2 that at top dollar. There's a couple more I found about 15 hours away, and will call them but will obviously only work if they do nationwide delivery, which most don't for used.

You may have a very difficult time finding a standard 8' Gold Crown. Trent texted me they don't exist and Brunswick didn't make one until the Gold Crown VI. All the Brunswick literature in their archives from the Gold Crown I up to present list the 8' (44" x 88") as an option and I know I played on a 44" x 88" black Gold Crown III at Mr Billiards in Baldwin Park, CA in the mid 90's on a few occasions. They had 3-4 of them in the center of the room flanked on each side by the 9' version. All black Gold Crown III's. What a great room and they were open 24 hours. Anyway...if Brunswick made any (I think they did) one will be near impossible to find because they probably didn't make many so it will be like finding a needle in a haystack. I say keep on the hunt for a OS 8' Gold Crown. The wife signed off and it sounds like your room can accommodate it. Search Craigslist and OfferUp daily and jump on one when you see it. Good luck on the hunt! Keep us posted.

I'm surprised that if you have a table of decent weight (700+ lbs) with decent sized rails and 1" slate and decent cushions with similar sized pockets/cuts as a GC that it wouldn't play near identical. But I know little about the construction, so guess it would be like trying to make a Toyota drive like a Porche by simply replacing the engines and seats...ain't gonna happen.

Comparing 700+ pounds to 1,100+ pounds is a substantial difference. The 400 pound difference is more than half the 700+ pound table's mass. With pool tables, heavier usually means better. Superior construction aside, I'd wager you could bump the 700+ pound table with your hip and the balls would wobble. That's not happening with a table that weights over 1,100 pounds.

Oh you asked about my columns. They are 3.5" and there are 2 that may pose an issue.

I wouldn't worry about 3.5" x 2. Those will rarely warrant the use of a shorty.

 

[MSmithAZ]

Thanks for all the thoughts! You've sold me, I'm just trying to make it happen now. I also posted a question here to see if maybe I should just get the 9' GC instead and deal with a shortie (if I give up on finding the OS 8' GC). Seemed like it deserved its own thread since it's OT and there's probably multiple opinions, so I gave it one ( https://forums.azbilliards.com/threads/would-you-rather-table-specs-question.541440/ ) . Soooo hard to wait, but I'm trying. Thanks again!

 

[MSmithAZ]

I wouldn't worry about 3.5" x 2. Those will rarely warrant the use of a shorty.

I should check too. Am I right in my assumption that while with an 8' or OS 8' it will be rare, but with a 9' however it would be semi-common (to have to use a shorty)? It leaves 51.5" for the 9' on the column side (5' on the other). I'm assuming its once every other game? I'm not really too sure how bad that as to be honest.

 

[rexus31]

I should check too. Am I right in my assumption that while with an 8' or OS 8' it will be rare, but with a 9' however it would be semi-common (to have to use a shorty)? It leaves 51.5" for the 9' on the column side (5' on the other). I'm assuming its once every other game? I'm not really too sure how bad that as to be honest.

What percentage of shots do you think will be directly in line with the poles for them to come into play? Are they metal poles or wood beams?

 

[MSmithAZ]

They're metal. Unfortunately I haven't had enough experience to know how frequently it would occur, but from a pure math stand point, if we assume the bad region is 6" x 6" around each pole, and on a 9' table there are 40 squared feet of playing surface, then 1 of 40 regions are bad or 2.5%. If the average beginner game has 20 shots per person (guessing), I'd be looking at 1 shot every other game. But you know, you add in the fact that just because a ball is there doesn't mean you'll be hitting it at an angle that interferes with the pole, it could actually be much lower. Let's call it 1/3 of the shots where the ball is in the bad region. So really I'd be looking at 1 shot in every 6 games per player.

If that's event the slightest bit accurate, that's not bad at all.

One thing I read someone mention though is that it impacts you in that you start to plan your shots around avoiding the pole, so can mess with your game even if you never broke out the shorty. But you know...life's not perfect

Thanks again for all the insight!

 

[rexus31]

They're metal. Unfortunately I haven't had enough experience to know how frequently it would occur, but from a pure math stand point, if we assume the bad region is 6" x 6" around each pole, and on a 9' table there are 40 squared feet of playing surface, then 1 of 40 regions are bad or 2.5%. If the average beginner game has 20 shots per person (guessing), I'd be looking at 1 shot every other game. But you know, you add in the fact that just because a ball is there doesn't mean you'll be hitting it at an angle that interferes with the pole, it could actually be much lower. Let's call it 1/3 of the shots where the ball is in the bad region. So really I'd be looking at 1 shot in every 6 games per player.

You'll want to pad those poles with something so you or someone else do not inadvertently slam the butt of your cue into the pole. That would be bad.

If that's event the slightest bit accurate, that's not bad at all.

One thing I read someone mention though is that it impacts you in that you start to plan your shots around avoiding the pole, so can mess with your game even if you never broke out the shorty. But you know...life's not perfect

Thanks again for all the insight!

Another train of thought: It will teach you to leave the cueball a favorable amount of distance from the rail which will improve your cue ball control.

Other than slamming your cue into a metal pole, I think the room size is a non issue for a 9' Gold Crown.

 

[MSmithAZ]

Awesome! Thank you! And I never knew that. Good to know!

 

[boogieman]

You'll want to pad those poles with something so you or someone else do not inadvertently slam the butt of your cue into the pole. That would be bad.

Another train of thought: It will teach you to leave the cueball a favorable amount of distance from the rail which will improve your cue ball control.

Other than slamming your cue into a metal pole, I think the room size is a non issue for a 9' Gold Crown.

Awesome! Thank you! And I never knew that. Good to know!

I bought cheap microfiber towels/cloths in the automotive section at walmart. I used blue ones and just wrapped them with blue sewing thread to match. Hold them onto the pole (may need a helper), make a loop and tie the top. Wrap around diagonally (like candy cane stripes) and tie them at the bottom. You won't see the threads and it offers cue protection without making the poles larger.

 

[realkingcobra]

Yes, they did make a standard 8' Gold Crown. How large is the column in question and how often do you think it will come into play? I've got a 9' Gold Crown in my 18' x 18' garage. Shots on either end rail require the use of a "shorty" but I'd say those shots come up less than 10% of the time. You can probably cheat the two inches in question on the 5' side and be fine with an OS 8'.


If you are planing to keep the table for an extended period of time and plan to play regularly and improve your skill level, you'd be best served with a Gold Crown or similar commercial table. As you improve, you will find the Legacy will not play to your liking and you will most likely want to upgrade in a few years. When you do, the Legacy is going to be EXTREMELY difficult to sell and you will take a serious bath if you pay $3,500 all in for one. If you want a one and done purchase, I highly recommend a Gold Crown. The added bonus is if you lose interest the Gold Crown is waaaay more sought after and an easier table to sell.

Sorry, but the smallest a GC has ever been built is the 46"×92" oversized 8ft. Never built as a 44"× 88" regardless if what may have been read in print.

 

[Lawnboy77]

Sorry, but the smallest a GC has ever been built is the 46"×92" oversized 8ft. Never built as a 44"× 88" regardless if what may have been read in print.

Thanks for confirming that. I grew up playing on a 44 X 88 home table in my parents basement and I’m 60 years old and been all over this planet in my career in the Air Force and I’ve never once ran into a hall, dayroom/rec center that had a standard 8 GC. The Brunswick website stating all the post WWII commercials as being available in 44 X 88 is just bogus info.

Edit: Even though the difference between a standard and OS is only 2 X 4, it is obvious after you play on both.

 

[realkingcobra]

Hey folks,

Buying my first table and going for an 8' as anything larger will be tight for the room. Used market around me doesn't have much that I'm in love with, so think I'm going new. My budget with delivery and install is at the 3.5k mark ideally +350 for some 860 felt. There is some wiggle room in that though. I came across the Legacy Mesa table. Surprisingly, the construction seems very solid despite being an overseas table. No veneers, no mdf, good cross beams, good corners, etc. I know the choice of wood may vary, but it has some good weight to it also at around 750 lbs. Is it a diamond in the rough by chance? But here's my real question....If I went with the Legacy Mesa, how are the cushions? With some 860 felt and a good mechanic for the setup, can I get this thing playing really well? Or would the cushions be holding me back? Should I plan to just replace them from the get go? How about the pockets? Anyone know?

Here's a video (fast forwarded to the proper spot), showing the construction if interested:

It's not a mesa, but hopefully comparable.

Thanks

Listen, for a home table, its fine. Yes, they've had a problem with cushions going bad, but that's not a deal breaker, cushions can be replaced, almost every manufacturer if pool tables have had to replace cushions at one time or another.

You don't need to tighten the pockets if all uou want to do is have fun play pool, its not a requirement that everyone that plays pool has to strive to get better and better, don't need to gamble to get better, don't need lessons to get better, not if all you want to do is have fun pocketing balls with your family and friends.

And here's something to think about. The same company that owns Legacy Billiards, also now owns Brunswick Billiards too.

Just make sure to get the table set up right the FIRST time it's set up.