Legal trickshot, physically possible?

Looks fine to me, nice shot.
The cueball pretty much follows the tangent line (he cuts
the 7 a little to the right) and then the spin takes.

gr. Dave
 
Double-Dave said:
Looks fine to me, nice shot.
The cueball pretty much follows the tangent line (he cuts
the 7 a little to the right) and then the spin takes.

gr. Dave
Click to expand...

That's what I see weird, I don't think it follows the tangent line, not even close. With that so small cut to the right cue ball direction should be much more parallel to the rail, but it goes near the pocket :confused:
 
frigopie said:
That's what I see weird, I don't think it follows the tangent line, not even close. With that so small cut to the right cue ball direction should be much more parallel to the rail, but it goes near the pocket :confused:
Click to expand...
That's right. In this screenshot the tangent line is red and the CB's path is white. If it's hit low, the CB can't go forward of the tangent line at all, much less at such a steep angle.

[Edit: Unless it's a heavy CB, as Bob points out.]

pj
chgo

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frigopie said:
I just saw this video on facebook, do you think it's possible without double contact or cue ball pushing? I can't understand how the cue ball can go in that direction just after the OB contact...

https://www.facebook.com/juan.sanchezmoreno.31/videos/812512275523090/?pnref=story

pd: sorry, facebook account needed :(
Click to expand...
I got to watch without a FacePlant account.

Simple: use a heavy cue ball, as is found on some bar tables and most carom tables. Or, he might have fouled the ball a little. You can also get that action with a little jump, but it didn't look like the cue ball jumped.
 
For a near straight-in draw shot like that, the cue ball should not go forward due to the speed transfer to the object ball. You can even see the follow-through go beyond the ghost ball, so this is definitely a double-hit.
 
frigopie said:
I just saw this video on facebook, do you think it's possible without double contact or cue ball pushing? I can't understand how the cue ball can go in that direction just after the OB contact...

https://www.facebook.com/juan.sanchezmoreno.31/videos/812512275523090/?pnref=story

pd: sorry, facebook account needed :(
Click to expand...

Is the shot possible with a legal hit? Absolutely. Was this a legal hit, don't think so unless, like everybody else said it was a heavy cueball. A "pop draw" or "jump draw" makes shots like this possible but the cueball wont contact the rail, at least at that angle. Watch the kamui stroke shot vids on youtube. Mind you the felt on that table is slippery as hell.
 
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looks like pushing through the CB to me, which is why he starts out with the CB so close to the OB. If you could do this shot legally, he would start with the CB in the center of the table (and the OB where it is).
 
The shot is hit so hard that it travels a few inches forward before the low/right English catches. This is not uncommon with hard and low English. That is why sometimes when the object ball is deep in the pocket, and people use extreme low to keep it from scratching, the cue ball slides right into the pocket, after the object ball, before the English takes. This guy is just taking advantage of this phenomenon. The "double" click people are hearing is the tip hitting the cue ball, then the cue ball hitting the object ball. This is because he hit it so hard. Great shot!
 
Its not a double hit or foul...

1. Look at the cloth... it looks brand new so the cue ball is going to slide forward after a hard shot, no matter what you put on the ball..

2. Even on worn in cloth, the cue ball does not come straight back if you strike it hard...if its a little air-born, it can hop forward, or in this case, it slid forward before the friction grabbed it.

3. does not have to be a heavy ball to obtain this type of reaction..but makes it easier. #1 is the answer you are looking for. :)

I used to actually do this type of shot on really old cloth with no friction... You could shoot a ball straight in close to a pocket and follow it in the pocket (using draw) if you hit it hard enough.. Provided some really interesting shots and breakouts for 14.1
 
As Adam as already stated it's a legal shot. The double hit your hearing is the CB hitting OB and the OB hitting back of pocket. It sounds that way cause the OB is so close to the pocket.

Don't know why this is bending brains. It's a stroke shot plain and simple.



Gary
 
JeremiahGage said:
For a near straight-in draw shot like that, the cue ball should not go forward due to the speed transfer to the object ball. You can even see the follow-through go beyond the ghost ball, so this is definitely a double-hit.
Click to expand...

Yeah I can see that now. What I don't get is why doesn't the cue ball go flying into the rail at the same speed as the object ball flew into the pocket? Instead, it reverses course before it hits the rail, and draws back. A heavy cue ball seems like a better explanation to me.
 
With the speed he hit it, the cue ball slid too little to the side and curved forward too quickly. People who think it's not a double-hit please do the same shot with the cue ball and object ball 2 feet apart.

Mrdodd72 said:
The shot is hit so hard that it travels a few inches forward before the low/right English catches. This is not uncommon with hard and low English. That is why sometimes when the object ball is deep in the pocket, and people use extreme low to keep it from scratching, the cue ball slides right into the pocket, after the object ball, before the English takes. This guy is just taking advantage of this phenomenon. The "double" click people are hearing is the tip hitting the cue ball, then the cue ball hitting the object ball. This is because he hit it so hard. Great shot!
Click to expand...

Wybrook said:
Its not a double hit or foul...

1. Look at the cloth... it looks brand new so the cue ball is going to slide forward after a hard shot, no matter what you put on the ball..

...

I used to actually do this type of shot on really old cloth with no friction... You could shoot a ball straight in close to a pocket and follow it in the pocket (using draw) if you hit it hard enough.. Provided some really interesting shots and breakouts for 14.1
Click to expand...

If you know elastic collision and conservation of momentum, then you know it's physically impossible for the cue ball (if it weighs the same as the object ball) to go forward (in any capacity) on a draw shot.
 
Wybrook said:
Its not a double hit or foul...

1. Look at the cloth... it looks brand new so the cue ball is going to slide forward after a hard shot, no matter what you put on the ball..

2. Even on worn in cloth, the cue ball does not come straight back if you strike it hard...if its a little air-born, it can hop forward, or in this case, it slid forward before the friction grabbed it.

3. does not have to be a heavy ball to obtain this type of reaction..but makes it easier. #1 is the answer you are looking for. :)

I used to actually do this type of shot on really old cloth with no friction... You could shoot a ball straight in close to a pocket and follow it in the pocket (using draw) if you hit it hard enough.. Provided some really interesting shots and breakouts for 14.1
Click to expand...

Can you show us a video of you doing the same shot with equal-weight balls and not fouling?
 
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