Lets talk about Butts

[jasonlaus]

just curious about where you fit on a list of cue makers? how many cues have you made? what do you actually know about cue making. i really dont understand why we always have to knock the professionals on this forum. pro players, cue makers... theres always someone in this forum who wants to just be a jerk and make the pros not post here anymore.

brian

Just post the question in the cuemaker section-you will probably be able to HEAR them Horse laughing this guys (BlackHeart) comments/statements-whatever. I don't come on here and ridicule the PRO'S just the one's trying to pass themselves off as one.

 

[spliced]

I've been thinking about what makes up "the ultimate" playing cue, Now this is all my theory- so I could be all wrong, but I want to get other opinions. It seems to me that you would want a cue that resonates like it was one piece of wood. But in the real world, hauling around a one piece cue would be cumbersome- so this is obviously why we have 2 piece cues.

Ok back to the original topic...

The one thing i'm not sure about is that people always assume the ultimate cue is one solid piece of wood (maple). Im not sure that this is true. I believe maybe the goal is actually to make the cue act as one solid UNIT, meaning making the cue work in harmony without any moving parts or odd noises. I believe that having very tight tolerances and solid construction methods are more important than making it flex or harmonize the same as a single piece of wood. Once completely assembled, the butt will be stronger and less likely to warp, and if built well, will still provide maximum resonance to the back hand. It will also be stiffer than one long piece of wood which I believe is important.

Even if feedback is distorted because having multiple parts to the cue, that cue will now have its own special kind of feedback and the user will get to know its resonance just as well as if he were playing with a solid piece of wood.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

Yes I/we(probably/mostly everybody)probably for those of you who would Red Rep somebody over saying everybody-do not include yourself in everybody<--disclaimer. would agree changing the shaft, ferrule, tip will change the HIT. SO will changing the Joint, weight, balance point, wood, length of the Butt!!!!!!
I'm trying to give this guy the correct info....and that is everyting matters in the HIT of a cue. Now you can get up here and beat your chest all you want about making cues since 86 or 23 years or whatever, my observations are from playing pool for over 30 years with high end to low end cues-Szam(both) Searing, Southwest, Mottey, Haley etc down to Players, cuetech, Mali you get the idea.
I don't have to have 23 years of building cues to FEEL how they play.
If you will admit that the Butt plays as important part of how the cue HITS/FEELS I will drop it.
BTW I don't appreciate your inference that because I don't build cues your word is Gold and mine doesn't mean anything... WHERE DO YOU FEEL THAT YOU FIT IN ON THE CUEBUILDING LIST FROM BEST TO WORST?????
I WILL BE LOOKING YOU UP TO SEE WHAT YOUR CUES SELL FOR MAYBE THAT WILL GIVE ME AN IDEA ON YOUR OPINION. OH THAT'S RIGHT I ALREADY HAVE ONE.
HAVE A NICE DAY:grin-square:

Lame. You ask for opinions on this subject and when a cuemaker gives one you tell him he is wrong. How do you expect Blackheart to respond to you? Even though his response was a little harsh (he was still pollite) I don't blame him. He has made cuemaking a profession and some guy who hasn't made a cue is telling him he is wrong. All your posts since have been immature at best. Lame.

 

[spliced]

isn't it also possible that a short piece of wood could resonate better than a long one because the vibrations have less length to travel?

 

[larrynj1]

"let's talk about butts" -

<-------a picture is worth a thousand words. please see my icon at left.

 

[jasonlaus]

Lame. You ask for opinions on this subject and when a cuemaker gives one you tell him he is wrong. How do you expect Blackheart to respond to you? Even though his response was a little harsh (he was still pollite) I don't blame him. He has made cuemaking a profession and some guy who hasn't made a cue is telling him he is wrong. All your posts since have been immature at best. Lame.

Check your facts-I'm not the one who started this thread. He came on here with a retarded answer that nobody in their right mind would believe, beating his chest claiming to be an expert.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BUTT HAS NO EFFECT ON HOW THE CUE PLAYS???? IF YOU DO THEN I'M WASTING MY TIME.
IF THE SHAFT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS THEN I'M CALLING CUETEC IMMEDIATELY(FOR A BUTT) AND ORDERING SHAFTS FROM WHATEVER CUEMAKER I WANT.
BTW, HIS RESPONSE WAS WRONG!!!!!!!

 

[dave sutton]

i understand both arguments. yes both parts factor but what jb was saying i think he means basically assuming the butts are made correctly. meaning good wood tight tolerances ect...

i too think tip ferrule and taper are the most important for hit of a cue. however joint material plays a huge roll in that too. we are assuming quality construction is there

truth is you can make 5 cues EXACTLY the same and achieve 5 different hits. we as maker try to be consistent with our building and make good playing cues. sometimes the stars align and we make that perfect cue that is noticeably better playing.

jason if you brought me a cue and hated the hit. first thing id look at is tip ferrule taper joint. basically id start with the tip and work my way down. in that order i think are most important

 

[jasonlaus]

i understand both arguments. yes both parts factor but what jb was saying i think he means basically assuming the butts are made correctly. meaning good wood tight tolerances ect...

i too think tip ferrule and taper are the most important for hit of a cue. however joint material plays a huge roll in that too. we are assuming quality construction is there

truth is you can make 5 cues EXACTLY the same and achieve 5 different hits. we as maker try to be consistent with our building and make good playing cues. sometimes the stars align and we make that perfect cue that is noticeably better playing.

jason if you brought me a cue and hated the hit. first thing id look at is tip ferrule taper joint. basically id start with the tip and work my way down. in that order i think are most important

Dave, do me a favor and take a shaft and try it on a few of your cues. I think you will find the hit to be quite a bit different. I understand that if I have a cue and want to change the way it plays I can change the shaft, but I cannot put the same shaft on a different Butt and expect it to play the same. My whole point on this topic was that changing a Butt will affect a cue as much as changing a shaft, and to make a blanket statement that changing anything in the Butt or the whole Butt will not change how a cue plays is wrong.
Thanks for your response, hope business in good.:thumbup:

 

[dave sutton]

Dave, do me a favor and take a shaft and try it on a few of your cues. I think you will find the hit to be quite a bit different. I understand that if I have a cue and want to change the way it plays I can change the shaft, but I cannot put the same shaft on a different Butt and expect it to play the same. My whole point on this topic was that changing a Butt will affect a cue as much as changing a shaft, and to make a blanket statement that changing anything in the Butt or the whole Butt will not change how a cue plays is wrong.
Thanks for your response, hope business in good.:thumbup:

thats the thing. i had the same 314 for like 7 years. i could put it on any 5x16-14 SS jointed cue and have little to no change. i understand what you mean but i think your misunderstanding blacks post

 

[TheNewSharkster]

Check your facts-I'm not the one who started this thread. He came on here with a retarded answer that nobody in their right mind would believe, beating his chest claiming to be an expert.
DO YOU BELIEVE THAT THE BUTT HAS NO EFFECT ON HOW THE CUE PLAYS???? IF YOU DO THEN I'M WASTING MY TIME.
IF THE SHAFT IS THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS THEN I'M CALLING CUETEC IMMEDIATELY(FOR A BUTT) AND ORDERING SHAFTS FROM WHATEVER CUEMAKER I WANT.
BTW, HIS RESPONSE WAS WRONG!!!!!!!

I stand to be corrected. I thought you made this topic. My point still stands. Here is the thing. Blackheart never said using a different butt makes no difference at all. He said-

"the butt secton plays only a small part, in the HIT."

and in one of your many responses you said-

"If you read my post you would know why. His comments are a joke, the idea is to give CORRECT information not false. If you honestly think changing the Butt of a Cue has no bearing on how it plays you need to call a cuemaker that actually knows what he is talking about."

Now please tell me where blackheart said the butt of a cue has no bearing on how it plays. He said it does have a small part in the way a cue hits. Even if he did say that it has no bearing you have no right to ridcule him like you are in this forum. Dismissing that he is wrong so quickly shows a lot of immaturity and poor communication skills.


BTW- you really don't need to throw around immature insults and use caps like you do.

 

[ShootingArts]

butts

The cue butt makes little difference assuming the butts are similar. I took it to extremes building a sneaky out of a three dollar junk butt and even with good pin, joint collar, and shaft, the hit was still lousy. The same shaft on a quality butt hit great.

As a general statement, the further away from the tip a component is the less effect it has on hit. Butts are behind the tip, ferule, shaft, and joint. Two butts of the same weight with similar construction and made with similar materials should hit much the same. A vastly different butt will play differently. This isn't worth pages of argument and angst.

Hu

 

[perspicaz]

isn't it also possible that a short piece of wood could resonate better than a long one because the vibrations have less length to travel?

Actually... in solids, vibration happens to the whole body at the same time since the molecules are tightly connected. With the same density, longer pieces will vibrate lower in pitch, shorter pieces will vibrate higher in pitch (like guitar strings do).
There is no good or bad wave or vibration, only amplitude (volume or intensity) and frequency (pitch) really.

Another point is that lamination has been used in musical instruments for ages (classical Spanish guitars for example) so I am afraid that combining woods and different pieces is not a problem for "resonating better", whatever that means.

Sorry for the geeky - smart ass comment. :sorry: