Letter From Renee Sigel Regarding Mark Trainer

[cueball1950]

Edyie.......

Edyie.... i hope you can/will still love me after this post. if you can't i will understand and still love Bob's wife...lol

Mike Sigel starts alot of the rumors that are running rampant out here. He started one at the world 14.1 that the IPT would be moving to Europe. I and another were standing 2 feet away when that statement.

I have known of mike for quite some time since we only lived a short distance away from each other and played in alot of the same rooms. No i am not nor was i as ever good as Mike. But Mike was a pompous ass way back then. He came into the room i play in and practiced for over an hour with larry hubbard. when it came time to pay. Larry was right there and paid his share. the owner asked Mike for his and he replied.."you must not know who i am old man" to which the owner replied...yes i do. your the man that owes me 2 bucks for time....everybody there laughed like the dickens.....there are more but these may be better left unsaid,,,,,,,mike

 

[cueball1950]

I think its a bit unfair to make Eydie responsible for Renee's comments, especially after Eydie clearly stated in the first post that she was merely relaying a message - and asked for people to be respectful in their responses. She has done her best to stay out of the back and forth bickering about the IPT and remain professional and respectful in regards to all of these issues.There are some people (unlike myself) that have chosen to keep their views on these issues private for personal and professional reasons. I can respect that more than I can respect someone needlessly shooting fire balls at a valued member of the billiard community such as Eydie Romano. I was pretty torked at Renee's comments also, but I also understand that her point of view is that of a wife that will defend her husband to the end. I respect that as well.

I hope that all of the players will receive their checks this week. When they do, hopefully all the animosity dissipates with the worrying.

LOUD TAP TAP TAP for Dave...............mike

 

[jay helfert]

The New Sigel

I was around from the beginning to the end of Mike Sigel's career. He is without doubt one of the two or three best tournament players of the modern era (maybe the best). Mike picked his spots, and didn't play as many tournaments as guys like Buddy, Nick and Earl. But when he showed up, he was one of the three or four favorites to win.

I hate to burst any bubbles here, but the Mike Sigel of the 1980's would have been an overwhelming favorite playing an All Around match with Efren. 9-Ball, Mike's the favorite. 14.1, Mike's a big favorite. One Pocket, Closer than you think. In 9-Ball, the only players I would put in his league were Buddy and Earl, and Miz before he got so big. In 14.1, Mike was the class of the field. In One Pocket he was one of the favorites too. And Mike could play jam up Banks and Eight Ball. The only thing he didn't like was going down to the Barbox.

Mike was always cocky (he had a champions confidence), but honest about his chances and the strengths of his opponent. He was respectful of the other top players, and played a clean game, with little if any gamesmanship. Mike was there to win, and you had better be ready, because he sure was. And I think for the most part, the other players respected Mike too. They may not have all liked him, but respect him and his ability, damn right they did.

Mike kept to himself around tournaments, not socializing with too many other players, other than Larry Hubbard. Yes, he jabbered incessantly during his matches and usually had a designated member of the audience, he kept up a running dialogue with. This was all good, clean fun and most everyone got a kick out of it. I mean it was interesting to hear Mike analyze his choice of shots out loud, before he picked one and then executed it perfectly.

And when it came to doing pool commentary on TV, he was terrific. Intelligent, articulate, with a good voice and the ability to make a keen analysis of any situation on the table. When Mike hung it up at age 41 or 42, he was on top of his game. In fact I think he won the last major tournament he played in at the Bicycle Club in L.A.

I hardly recognize the new Mike Sigel. He is so completely fuil of himself, as if he has to convince everyone he was one of the greatest. Yes Mike, we know, we know. And to be so derogatory toward other players, especially the great women players, is simply unbelievable. The old Mike Sigel would have been complimenting them on how good they played.

I don't know what's happened over the years. Maybe while he was convincing Kevin Trudeau to create the IPT, some of KT's arrogance wore off on him. It's almost as if he is trying to convince himself that he is still a great player. I guess that happens in all sports, even pool. Because the new Mike Sigel is clearly not one of the top players anymore.

I like the old Mike Sigel. And that is the man I prefer to remember.

 

[Eydie Romano]

Look Eydie,

(1)You stated that you thought she was "rightfully upset" that people think Mike is involved with Trainer and people are saying things about him.

When you say "rightfully upset" that means you agree with her. Do you think people shouldn't be upset when Mike acts like he's running the show and it looks like they are going to get screwed. It's called "guilty by association".



(2)You said that what you posted was "part of what she wanted us to know".

So what are the other parts she wants us to know?



(3)You said you edited some "choice words" and "a sentence or two".

So what are the "choice words" and to whom are they directed?




People usually get "respect" when they give it. It doesn't sound like she has any for the pool population in general.

What's wrong with her posting what she thinks herself? It bothered her enough to write you and use "choice words".

I guess you have the wrong idea about my comment about "not stepping on toes". I would think you would want to stay uninvolved because you and your husband are in the business of getting as many people as you can to come to your pool tournaments and if you take sides it tends to alienate people that might otherwise go to your events.


If you think it's "crap" that I think she's got a lot of nerve acting the way she is......when people aren't getting paid, they're getting the run-around on everything, the problems aren't being addressed and it looks like they're sucking more money from people and might not deliver what's promised............then all I can say is.........."Whatever, lady".

Most cooks tell me, "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".

First, Dave, David, Mike and all the others who have sent me PM's and posted and written me with kindness. Thanks for the praise, I appreciate them, you are gentleman!

NOW............

Ok Steve, you want to turn this into a slugfest, you got it buddy, game on! BTW, I am a Good cook, I tolerate the kitchen quite well.

You have taken everything I have said out of content, to try and belittle me for being her friend and posting this for her. Does that make you feel like a man?

Addressing comment #1) I said "rightfully upset", because that is how SHE feels, YOU are taking my words and turning them around. SHE feels "rightfully upset". It's her husband and SHE is rightfully upset. Get it?

I don't agree with the way Mike has treated people especially Linda Carter, and up till about an hour ago, I didn't know anything about what he had done to her during their match until now.

I am not guilty of association at all, I am a friend of Renee's and I don't know if she knows everything Mike does. That is my opinion, don't put words in my mouth or ASSUME anything buddy, YOU ARE WRONG!

Addressing comment # 2) It is a part (referring to the 2 paragraphs) of the letter that SHE wrote to me about this situation, not a part of what she said. There is nothing else she wants us to know regardless of what YOU ASSUME, she said.

Addressing comment #3) I edited Mother F&&cker and Son of a b$tch which I have now spelled out for you, since you seem to think there was more. The sentence that I edited was grammatically incorrect, so I fixed it! It's still there, regardless of what you want to ASSUME! I did not omit anything she said. Get it?

Renee has plenty of respect for the players. Her husband is being attacked (apparently, due to things he has brought on by himself) and she is defending him. Listen to me Steve, SHE is defending him, NOT me! Get it? This letter is from HER not ME!

I asked for the thread for it to be responded to in a respectful manor so it didn't go sour, which YOU have managed to make happen, thank you and congratulations!

This letter is from HER, NOT Me. It states that in the subject title, "Letter From Renee Sigel Regarding Mark Trainer". Nowhere does it say, Letter from Eydie Romano regarding a letter written by Renee Sigel. The only thing that I added was for it to be done respectfully, and I even thanked YOU for a post well done in the beginning, which you have now gone off the deep end and turned around.

I stated that "as her friend, I understand where she is coming from. I can personally understand how she must feel to hear such negativity on a consistent basis regarding the IPT and Mike".

Let me rephrase this for you so it is more understandable...

As her friend, I am sorry that SHE is going through this. If I were in her shoes, and my husband was being accused of things that I didn't believe to be true, I would be upset as well. I am NOT siding with the IPT or Mike, I am her friend and I am there for her, NOT Mike. Get it? She does not believe these allegations to be true, NOT ME. Get it????? She can believe anything she wants to believe, those are HER words NOT mine! Get it??

My events, they have nothing to do with any of this. YOU are the only one bringing them up, apparently in an sad effort to discredit me. If you feel that people wont attend because I posted a letter from her, that's up to them. My events have nothing to do with the IPT, now or ever. It's really sad that you feel the need to hit below the belt because YOU are mad at something that I had NOTHING to do with!

Since your attack of me on this thread, I have had many PM's regarding your rude behavior and conduct. Some have apologized on your behalf explaining that you are not typically a "jerk", and others have taken the time to help me understand how you are feeling. I appreciate all the kind words that many have said.

Now, here is a comment by ME, not Renee.

" It makes me sick that the players have not been paid. I am totally pissed off that this is happening to them and to the sport. I am worried about how this is going to effect the industry if the IPT fails.

Up till about 2 hours ago, I did not know what had gone on between Mike Sigel and Linda Carter and the way he won their match. I had no idea of the verbal abuse he demonstrated towards her, and I am appalled and hurt that he would have treated her that way.

Apparently, Timberly had all the reason in the world to be bashing Mike, and I apologize for being upset with her.

I care very much for this industry and all the players. Most people know this about me. This is why I didn't want conflict on this thread, which now has gone sour.

I did this thread as a favor to Renee. In retrospect, maybe I should not have.

Eydie

 

[ribdoner]

IMHO the Sigel we see now is an act.

Its a shame Reyes and Sigel didn't and can't play in their prime. I would bet HIGH on Reyes if the format was 1p, 14-1 and 9 ball.

The longer the races/sessions the more I like Reyes.

Which is older?

 

[stevelomako]

Renee Sigel and I are friends and correspond on a regular basis. In a letter that I got from her today, she is rightfully upset with the backlash of innuendo's regarding Mike's involvement with Mark Trainer. This is a part of what she would like the doubting Thomas's of the pool world to know:


"You can let the "POOL WORLD" understand Mike is NOT involved with the Trainer issues they are all discussing! In re: to getting a piece of the action! He does not get a kick back or a % or anything else!
NOR does Kevin! They don't need the players money or want it! If anything when Mike started the IPT he should of made agreements with the players since he worked so hard for 10 YEARS in getting the tour started! BUT HE DID NOT because he did not want anything; just for the players to be playing for lot's of money and to have fun.

AMAZING how the pool world cannot come from the outside looking in; to understand! Instead they choose to KNOCK Mike & Kevin every chance they get. And the next time someone call's my husband a SOB or MF or anything un called for; they better stop and remember they'd have no Pool on TV except re-runs, no MONEY and no TOUR!"

I have edited some choice words and a sentence or two but these are her words, and as her friend, I understand where she is coming from. I can personally understand how she must feel to hear such negativity on a consistent basis regarding the IPT and Mike.

This post is done in defense for Mike's NON involvement with Mr. Trainer. I sincerely hope that any and all replies will be done in a respectful manner.

Eydie

I just need to put these in order.

 

[stevelomako]

This is why spouse's shouldn't be involved......things are taken very personally regardless of if the husband/wife is right or wrong in the situation.



All of them (KT, MT, MS and now his wife) need to realize that they are not just messing around with Kevins' money.



There's quite a few people using their own money and other peoples money and money they don't have (credit cards, loans, selling stuff they shouldn't) to take a shot at this Tour...MONEY THEY REALLY JUST CAN'T AFFORD...but with all the promises that are thrown out there they are going to take the chance of chasing the carrot. Then when the promises are changing from week to week, people expect them NOT to get upset..........PLEASE!!!!!!



Myself personally....I believe the idea for the IPTwas excellent but the plate was too small for the food they tried to put on it. It looks like they tried to lay a spread down (the initial investment) to make a big score (T.V., sponsership, etc.) and its not working out how they hoped and there's nothing wrong with that...BUT...THEY NEED TO REMEMBER HOW MANY PEOPLE THAT COULDN'T/CAN'T AFFORD TO TAKE A CHANCE....DID!!!.

I think she has alot of nerve to be upset because of some "WORDS" that are said towards her husband when there are people that are BROKE and waiting for money they rightfully have coming and are getting the runaround about it and might not ever see it.

THEN TO HAVE IT POSTED SECOND HAND!

Good or bad, it was Kevins' decision to start this business and try to get a return on his investment (and I hope he does as it indirectly affects me)...BUT...there are other people that stand to lose that can't afford to and they are going by what they hear from Kevin and Mike.

So I can see if I'm wrong about what has been written.

 

[stevelomako]

Well, isn't this just dandy. I post a thread and ask people to please be respectful and this is what happens.

I guess that I should have known better. I can understand people's opinions, Mike has been a very controversial person for years now, but Earl has taken the cake many times over. I am in no way defending how Mike has acted, it is extremely disappointing, but what I asked is that all were respectful to Renee Sigel and not go off. I can imagine that this has been very hard for her, and I respect that.

Timberly, I am disappointed that you elected to bash Mike as you did after I asked that this be respectful. I am disappointed in you as my friend, I would have not done that to your thread, especially after I asked people not to, instead, I would have taken it some place else for respect to me which apparently you don't have!

[/QUOTE = Blackjack]
Blackjack writes:

This is what I do care about:

That the players have something in writing that legally holds the IPT responsible to provide what they have already promised.

What's so hard about that? Is that asking too much? Obviously it is.

If this thing doesn't work out the players will have nothing that protects their interests or their promised salaries. Some of them are already in the hole despite the large payouts. Some players needed the money from Reno so that they could get back home. Compared to what she's pissed off about, what should be the top priority?

This is an extremely good point and one that should be addressed immediately. Dave, both you and I have a special interest in a particular player who is part of this mess and I as you would like to see this resolved immediately. Thank you for being respectful.

Steve ~ also good points, and thank you for being respectful as well.

Now to my biggest peeve, "Big Money" or "BM" in my book (appropriate named, I think) Weren't you happy with your own thread? Had to come to soil up mine, thanks a lot![/QUOTE]


And so far I don't think I've said anything wrong.

 

[stevelomako]

Respectful? I'm actually livid that she wouldn't have the nerve to post herself and that you have the gall to post her EDITED comments second hand. Why not just put the whole UNEDITED letter out here like she wanted???

As far as yourself, it would seem to me you shouldn't be stirring up anything as a person in the business of trying to get people to go to your tournaments. Why you would want to get involved and possibly step on the toes of potential customers (tournament players) is beyond me.

I don't think this is untrue.

 

[stevelomako]

Look Steve, it was edited because it had other things regarding our children and such that did not relate to pool or YOU.

I am not stepping on anyone's toes. I posted the part of the letter as I was asked to do, and just asked for some respect when people answered her, Steve. Get it? I didn't want this to turn into another flame. Get it?

I doubt anyone is not going to come to my events because I posted a part of a letter I got from her, that's just stupid.

I thanked you and Blackjack for being respectful and now you come back with this crap? That's Gall, buddy! I understand fully what's going on and I feel badly for all that are involved.

But it does look like you're getting hot at me.

 

[stevelomako]

Look Eydie,

(1)You stated that you thought she was "rightfully upset" that people think Mike is involved with Trainer and people are saying things about him.

When you say "rightfully upset" that means you agree with her. Do you think people shouldn't be upset when Mike acts like he's running the show and it looks like they are going to get screwed. It's called "guilty by association".



(2)You said that what you posted was "part of what she wanted us to know".

So what are the other parts she wants us to know?



(3)You said you edited some "choice words" and "a sentence or two".

So what are the "choice words" and to whom are they directed?




People usually get "respect" when they give it. It doesn't sound like she has any for the pool population in general.

What's wrong with her posting what she thinks herself? It bothered her enough to write you and use "choice words".

I guess you have the wrong idea about my comment about "not stepping on toes". I would think you would want to stay uninvolved because you and your husband are in the business of getting as many people as you can to come to your pool tournaments and if you take sides it tends to alienate people that might otherwise go to your events.


If you think it's "crap" that I think she's got a lot of nerve acting the way she is......when people aren't getting paid, they're getting the run-around on everything, the problems aren't being addressed and it looks like they're sucking more money from people and might not deliver what's promised............then all I can say is.........."Whatever, lady".

Most cooks tell me, "if you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen".

I don't think I'm being mean to you. I just think you don't comprehend what you read and take things personally.

 

[stevelomako]

First, Dave, David, Mike and all the others who have sent me PM's and posted and written me with kindness. Thanks for the praise, I appreciate them, you are gentleman!

NOW............

Ok Steve, you want to turn this into a slugfest, you got it buddy, game on! BTW, I am a Good cook, I tolerate the kitchen quite well.

You have taken everything I have said out of content, to try and belittle me for being her friend and posting this for her. Does that make you feel like a man?

Addressing comment #1) I said "rightfully upset", because that is how SHE feels, YOU are taking my words and turning them around. SHE feels "rightfully upset". It's her husband and SHE is rightfully upset. Get it?

I don't agree with the way Mike has treated people especially Linda Carter, and up till about an hour ago, I didn't know anything about what he had done to her during their match until now.

I am not guilty of association at all, I am a friend of Renee's and I don't know if she knows everything Mike does. That is my opinion, don't put words in my mouth or ASSUME anything buddy, YOU ARE WRONG!

Addressing comment # 2) It is a part (referring to the 2 paragraphs) of the letter that SHE wrote to me about this situation, not a part of what she said. There is nothing else she wants us to know regardless of what YOU ASSUME, she said.

Addressing comment #3) I edited Mother F&&cker and Son of a b$tch which I have now spelled out for you, since you seem to think there was more. The sentence that I edited was grammatically incorrect, so I fixed it! It's still there, regardless of what you want to ASSUME! I did not omit anything she said. Get it?

Renee has plenty of respect for the players. Her husband is being attacked (apparently, due to things he has brought on by himself) and she is defending him. Listen to me Steve, SHE is defending him, NOT me! Get it? This letter is from HER not ME!

I asked for the thread for it to be responded to in a respectful manor so it didn't go sour, which YOU have managed to make happen, thank you and congratulations!

This letter is from HER, NOT Me. It states that in the subject title, "Letter From Renee Sigel Regarding Mark Trainer". Nowhere does it say, Letter from Eydie Romano regarding a letter written by Renee Sigel. The only thing that I added was for it to be done respectfully, and I even thanked YOU for a post well done in the beginning, which you have now gone off the deep end and turned around.

I stated that "as her friend, I understand where she is coming from. I can personally understand how she must feel to hear such negativity on a consistent basis regarding the IPT and Mike".

Let me rephrase this for you so it is more understandable...

As her friend, I am sorry that SHE is going through this. If I were in her shoes, and my husband was being accused of things that I didn't believe to be true, I would be upset as well. I am NOT siding with the IPT or Mike, I am her friend and I am there for her, NOT Mike. Get it? She does not believe these allegations to be true, NOT ME. Get it????? She can believe anything she wants to believe, those are HER words NOT mine! Get it??

My events, they have nothing to do with any of this. YOU are the only one bringing them up, apparently in an sad effort to discredit me. If you feel that people wont attend because I posted a letter from her, that's up to them. My events have nothing to do with the IPT, now or ever. It's really sad that you feel the need to hit below the belt because YOU are mad at something that I had NOTHING to do with!

Since your attack of me on this thread, I have had many PM's regarding your rude behavior and conduct. Some have apologized on your behalf explaining that you are not typically a "jerk", and others have taken the time to help me understand how you are feeling. I appreciate all the kind words that many have said.

Now, here is a comment by ME, not Renee.

" It makes me sick that the players have not been paid. I am totally pissed off that this is happening to them and to the sport. I am worried about how this is going to effect the industry if the IPT fails.

Up till about 2 hours ago, I did not know what had gone on between Mike Sigel and Linda Carter and the way he won their match. I had no idea of the verbal abuse he demonstrated towards her, and I am appalled and hurt that he would have treated her that way.

Apparently, Timberly had all the reason in the world to be bashing Mike, and I apologize for being upset with her.

I care very much for this industry and all the players. Most people know this about me. This is why I didn't want conflict on this thread, which now has gone sour.

I did this thread as a favor to Renee. In retrospect, maybe I should not have.

Eydie

Since this is the last post and they're all in order, I don't think I took ANYTHING out of context and I would think you are quite hot under the collar at me (you wouldn't be the first) but I know I didn't say anything out of line or untrue.


I don't see rude behavior and conduct on my part.

Why would someone apologize for me?? I'm responsible for my own actions and own up to anything I ever do.

I never made any name calling comments like you have towards me. I could be a "jerk" like you insinuate but does everyone have to think that?

I'm glad "people" have helped you understand how I'm feeling....????? I'm clueless what you mean here.

Anyway, I hope you can read everything and realize you didn't understand it.

Me....I have to get some sleep before I talk to some of my friends to see if they received their checks or if they need to borrow some more money to get them by till they do.

Trust me, there was NO attack on you, I just think you made a bad decision to get involved.