Lighting: Parabolic Louvers vs. Egg Crate

[iusedtoberich]

I just found the info:

-My light is 70" to the slate.
-Light Meter link. Unfortunately it has not been updated in 6 years, I guess I had it a long time. It has an outside and inside mode, I use it on inside for the table.

‎Light Meter - measure luminosity in lux, fc, lumen

‎Light meter in your pocket! Exclusive accuracy of measurements. Calibrated with professional high-precision illuminometer. We have made this Light Meter for that you could save on purchasing of professional illuminometers which cost hundreds of dollars. At the same time we love beautiful...

apps.apple.com

-Light info (I found a picture). I typed in the model number on google and don't get any hits. So the best info is its 80W and 6000K color.

Setup. It's super bright. Better than the Diamond light and the Gold Crown light by far.

 

[DeadStick]

Just used two different Light Meter apps to measure my table, using the front camera of my iPhone 15 Max Pro. They both gave virtually identical readings (links below).

1150 over most of the center area of the table, down to 1000 along the long rails, 950 in the middle of the short rails, and 900 at the corner pockets. So very even illumination with two of these 60W 7700 lumen 2x4 LED panels and 1/2” silver parabolic louvers.

Raising my phone up 12 inches to simulate a more typical light height than the 50” height I’m using brought center table lux up 500 points to 1650.

‎Light Meter - measure luminosity in lux, fc, lumen

‎Light meter in your pocket! Exclusive accuracy of measurements. Calibrated with professional high-precision illuminometer. We have made this Light Meter for that you could save on purchasing of professional illuminometers which cost hundreds of dollars. At the same time we love beautiful...

apps.apple.com

‎Lux Light Meter Pro

‎Light Meter is a 2-in-1 light intensity (lux) and exposure meter with customizable settings. Whether you want to capture the perfect photo or optimize lighting in any space, Light Meter provides professional-quality readings right on your phone. Forget about expensive professional equipment...

apps.apple.com

 

[rexus31]

I just found the info:

-My light is 70" to the slate.
-Light Meter link. Unfortunately it has not been updated in 6 years, I guess I had it a long time. It has an outside and inside mode, I use it on inside for the table.

‎Light Meter - measure luminosity in lux, fc, lumen

‎Light meter in your pocket! Exclusive accuracy of measurements. Calibrated with professional high-precision illuminometer. We have made this Light Meter for that you could save on purchasing of professional illuminometers which cost hundreds of dollars. At the same time we love beautiful...

apps.apple.com

-Light info (I found a picture). I typed in the model number on google and don't get any hits. So the best info is its 80W and 6000K color.
View attachment 740157


Setup. It's super bright. Better than the Diamond light and the Gold Crown light by far.

I tried the light meter you linked and I think it may be off. First off, there's no way your table is 450-ish lux as measured by this meter. It rated mine at 400 and the corners at 70. If you look at this chart the corners are measured less than a very dark day using your meter. No way. I then tried the first meter @DeadStick posted above and the numbers were the same as I previously posted using the Light Meter LM-300.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I’ll try the other meter tomorrow in the daylight. I do think all of us may be putting too much faith in these free phone meters.

I’d say comparing different diffusing louvers using the same meter and same light for a directional comparison is valid.

But comparing mine to Rexus to deadstick is probably garbage data.

IMO

 

[rexus31]

I’ll try the other meter tomorrow in the daylight. I do think all of us may be putting too much faith in these free phone meters.

I’d say comparing different diffusing louvers using the same meter and same light for a directional comparison is valid.

But comparing mine to Rexus to deadstick is probably garbage data.

IMO

100%. I wasn't trying to compare my light to anyone else's. I just wanted to see if the parabolic louvers created brighter light for my application, off the recommendation of fellow forum members. The results were marginally better, not enough to be impactful.

 

[buckshotshoey]

I used the silver egg crates on my current light and it's much easier to look across the light while sitting down. Had black painted egg crates before but the silver ones spread better and appear brighter.

While playing you don t have the brightness blasting you like some of the perimeter lights. At Derby there are 7 perimeter lights on the TV table and Im only 38 and can barely stand to watch the TV table for a while match. Too damn bright and no diffusers to soften it visually. I'd prefer to watch from the 2nd story seating.

I play in a room that just got all new perimeter lights. They have horrible glare. IDK what is going on, but I feel super uncomfortable there. I don't recall feeling like this ever before in all my years of playing. I may try a hat next time I go, and I haven't worn a hat since I played T-ball.

This has come up before. Wouldn't a simple skirting setup eliminate the glare to the sides?

 

[iusedtoberich]

This has come up before. Wouldn't a simple skirting setup eliminate the glare to the sides?

Maybe. I think the light sellers for pool table specific lights don’t really know what they are doing. They are just repackaging the bare panels.

 

[DeadStick]

This has come up before. Wouldn't a simple skirting setup eliminate the glare to the sides?

That might help prevent spread of light to the room, but wouldn’t help the player down on a shot.

 

[buckshotshoey]

That might help prevent spread of light to the room, but wouldn’t help the player down on a shot.

Usually the parameter lights are mounted close to the ceiling. Glare for the player shouldn't be any worse then a bar light hanging 40 inches over the table.

 

[L.S. Dennis]

Seems like lighting has come a long way since the old three or four light bulbs over the table.

 

[iusedtoberich]

@rexus31 would you consider an LED without a separate eggshape or parabolic diffuser? The LED's come with a simpler diffuser attached, but they are a simple smooth or lightly textured frosted sheet. Just curious your thoughts as you've been through this a few times.

 

[rexus31]

@rexus31 would you consider an LED without a separate eggshape or parabolic diffuser? The LED's come with a simpler diffuser attached, but they are a simple smooth or lightly textured frosted sheet. Just curious your thoughts as you've been through this a few times.

While I don’t have specific experience with LED’s, I would think an egg crate style diffuser, parabolic or otherwise, would be an improvement. I think one of the challenges (if you even want to call it that) is your light being 6’ away from the playing surface. Based on your pics, your entire room is illuminated to the point where is looks like there are other light sources in your room. Lowering the light with better diffusion would help. What’s your end goal? For me, one of the reasons I didn’t like the parabolic louvers (aside from the minimal performance gains) was the fact that I use my room for things other than pool and like the lighting my pool light and the 6 other fixtures I have in the room provides. The overall lighting was drastically less with the parabolics. What are your goals?

 

[muskyed]

I used three 2'x2' LED panels in mine spaced about an inch and a half apart. Also just used the simple egg crates that you can buy to cut down on glare. The light is very even and I don't notice any glare.
These panels are very cheap, color programable, and light output programable on some. When I made this I was all in for about $150 but I have a wood shop full of wood. If you had to buy the wood, I would expect about $200 to make. This was for a 8' table but would work for a 7' one also. If for a 9' table I would just space the lights out to about a 6" or 7" gap.
There are a lot of good, reasonably priced light options out there right now compared to the past.

Worrying about the evenness of these LED lights is sort of a mute point when you consider the accepted lighting of the past like 3 lightbulbs over a 9' table.

 

[kidcuban21]

I did the same thing, bought two 2x4's x 10ft and cut them into the pieces I needed and made the light at home. 3 24x24 led office panels, light can change color produces alot of lumens and dimmable, spent less then $160 in total, and made alot of cuts down the table saw.

My detatched garage turned into my daughters playroom and my room together.


Here is the light it produces and its fully dimmable as well!

 

[iusedtoberich]

While I don’t have specific experience with LED’s, I would think an egg crate style diffuser, parabolic or otherwise, would be an improvement. I think one of the challenges (if you even want to call it that) is your light being 6’ away from the playing surface. Based on your pics, your entire room is illuminated to the point where is looks like there are other light sources in your room. Lowering the light with better diffusion would help. What’s your end goal? For me, one of the reasons I didn’t like the parabolic louvers (aside from the minimal performance gains) was the fact that I use my room for things other than pool and like the lighting my pool light and the 6 other fixtures I have in the room provides. The overall lighting was drastically less with the parabolics. What are your goals?

I meant in a general sense, not my setup. Since the LED panels become affordable, all the pool specific sellers have been selling them bare. First it was the guy selling the generic 2x4 panels with 4 wires about 10 years ago for $400 each. Now it’s the perimeter lights that seem about the same, just in a different shape. Are we as pool players being shorted in our off-the-shelf options?

 

[rexus31]

I meant in a general sense, not my setup.

Got it. Sorry for the confusion.

Since the LED panels become affordable, all the pool specific sellers have been selling them bare. First it was the guy selling the generic 2x4 panels with 4 wires about 10 years ago for $400 each. Now it’s the perimeter lights that seem about the same, just in a different shape. Are we as pool players being shorted in our off-the-shelf options?

Possibly. Littman sells their lights with diffusers. I'm not sure why others do not. I'd be curious to see how well the perimeter lights would perform with louvers. It would certainly cut down on the glare.

 

[derangedhermit]

@rexus31, post #14 shows brighter and more even light on the table with no louvers at all. Why do you use them?

 

[rexus31]

@rexus31, post #14 shows brighter and more even light on the table with no louvers at all. Why do you use them?

While the light is brighter, there's too much glare coming from the fixture. While I'm not sensitive to glare, catching a glimpse of the light with no diffusers is kinda brutal.

 

[muskyed]

As a retired commercial photographer, I have vast experience with lighting, and high end light meters. I would advise not to get too worked up over a difference in light output #'s when using a light meter. What's really important is the color temperature and that all your lights match each other in that. If an outer edge were say two thirds or half the reading in output as the center, it really isn't that big a deal as long as it's a gradual change. Your eye will easily accommodate such a small falloff in light output but will not accommodate a variance in light temperature in the panels.
You are not going to get a perfectly even light output on a table using say, various configurations of these 2x2 panels, or also for that matter a perimeter light. It still though will be so much better than the 3 lightbulb setups of the past where there could possibly be 5 to ten times or more variation of light output on a table.
This really isn't something to nitpick about with these great new light options available now. Pool players have never had it so good as they now have with the very reasonable priced lighting options available at this time.
Just an edit after seeing a previous comment on why use diffusers when they somewhat cut down on light output. Light output isn't the problem with these new lights. When you first use them, they seem overly bright, even with diffusers. They have more than enough light output even with diffusers.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I tried my setup with the "Lux Light Meter Pro". It has a 3 day free trial, then paid, so I will cancel it after this post https://apps.apple.com/us/app/lux-light-meter-pro/id1292598866

2 numbers on my paper in some spots. The top number is with the phone on the slate, 70" distance to the LED panel. The number underneath is with the phone on a box, which placed it at a 48" distance to the light, which is more common. If there are not 2 numbers, its the 70" distance.

It was unexpected, but makes complete sense, that the numbers got worse when the phone was higher on the edges of the table, and better when the phone was directly under the light. Food for thought. I kind of think with the modern LED lights they should be high at 70" from the slate. I love how my light lights up the table. Better than any room I've personally ever been in. The only thing I don't like is when looking up or across the room (not down on a shot), the light is a bit strong in my eyes.

There is also a window on one side, that may explain some of the mirrored differences.