Little Ko wins 8-Ball !!! Big KO ripped off, Pool hangs it's head

[lfigueroa]

I just spoke to Mark and he asked that I post his comment from another thread into other relevant threads. So here it is.

My suggestion is that all take into consideration that CSI has several huge events still going. Mark does want to provide an explanation and will do so as soon as the dust settles.

Lou Figueroa

CSI will be making comments in due time. In case anyone forgets, we are (still) running a very large amateur event with over 5,000 players and 35 events.

We agree this is an unusual ( and interesting) situation. We made a decision and we can and will explain why we did what we did.

The conduct of several of the posters in this and other threads is uncalled for and borders on stupidity. People can disagree- but accusations and name calling does more damage to the game.

CSI does more for pool on amateur and pro sides than anyone in the country. If there is a problem with pool - perhaps it is in the dis-respect given towards those that do things. Just because you disagree with our decisions does not make you right or wrong. It just means we disagree. And although you definitely have the 'right' to say anything you want, the informed public has the right to hold your thoughts in contempt.

In closing. The pro event was only one event of many. Give us the courtesy to complete the task at hand. Move back to our office and we will respond in the professional manner that we always strive for.

This will be the only response for a couple of days.
And to those CSI haters - have a nice day:thumbup:

Mark Griffin
CSI

 

[one stroke]

I just spoke to Mark and he asked that I post his comment from another thread into other relevant threads. So here it is.

My suggestion is that all take into consideration that CSI has several huge events still going. Mark does want to provide an explanation and will do so as soon as the dust settles.

Lou Figueroa

This is CSI's standard response ,, we do what we want when we want we will tell you why later ,, and they don't care who likes it or not ,, and if you don't you are stupid
What they need is a PR guy because clearly it's not Mark's or Ozzy's strong suit ,,

What they should have done and it's miles above their thinking ,is tell you the reason why they made their choice just like any other professional entity would have done
Oh that's right it's CSI what in the world was I thinking


1

 

[DaveK]

This is so poor at many levels. Re-evaluate in time and learn from this event, this thread, and the comments made herein. This is meant for nearly all who posted or re-posted. If you cannot figure out if you should take my advice or not I hope your self-awareness improves.

Dave

 

[Banks]

Oh, hell, I'm just going to buy stock in Kleenex. Ooooh.. they can sponsor the next tournament!

 

[beetle]

What difference does it make to you? You've apparently made up your mind and passed judgment on CSI.

This was a scenario where either way some people weren't going to be happy, and the poll shows that. As of this post, almost 50% of the viewers are in support of what CSI did once Souquet forfeited. That percentage has been increasing steadily all day as people take a deep breath and realize that this was a reasonable approach.

There have been very reasonable explanations of why this is completely different from a regular double elimination tournament and there have been many examples now showing it was handled in a similar way in other pool events and other sports.

Obviously, nothing Mark says will change your mind (just like all those other posts showing similarly handled situations), so I suggest you find something else on which to focus your moral outrage.

--Steve

As soon as they figure out something to made up. :boring2: If he was so busy why was he on Az last night for a while and again this morning. This that he asked you to post that for him because he is so busy is BS, sorry. He knows he messed up and is trying to wait till things simmer down.
WHAT WAS DONE TO KO WAS JUST PLAIN WRONG NOTHING HE CAN MAKE UP WILL CHANGE THAT, SORRY. Bottom line CSI lost all respect with that move.

 

[lfigueroa]

As soon as they figure out something to made up. :boring2: If he was so busy why was he on Az last night for a while and again this morning. This, that he asked you to post that for him because he is so busy is BS, sorry. He knows he messed up and is trying to wait till things simmer down.
WHAT WAS DONE TO KO WAS JUST PLAIN WRONG NOTHING HE CAN MAKE UP WILL CHANGE THAT, SORRY. Bottom line CSI lost all respect with that move.

You want respect, you got to give respect. You can start with KO. Respect? You didn't even feel we had the right to know what Shane and Ko were playing for in the
exhibition, another first, just like somebody coming back to life after being knocked out. Firsts are happening all over I guess. LOL

You know, not everyone is super slick when it comes to doing more than reading posts on AZ or working more than basic stuff on an iPad. Mark asked me to post his comment because he didn't know how to copy and paste into different threads. I know that may be hard for some to believe but it's the truth.

Having spoken to Mark (and having known him for many years) I extend my personal assurance that Mark is not waiting for things to simmer down and make something up. He's just really busy and like many of us older guys prefers to work off a computer v a mobile device. If you do not want to accept that at face value, and give the man the benefit of the doubt until he has the opportunity to present his case, there is not much more I can say to you.

As a personal comment: Mark and CSI probably do more for pool than anyone else in this country. And he always tries to do the right thing. Now in the end, you (and others) may not like his explanation. But that just means you disagree. He still deserves respect for being one of the stand up guys and promoters in our sport.

Lou Figueroa

 

[one stroke]

What difference does it make to you? You've apparently made up your mind and passed judgment on CSI.

This was a scenario where either way some people weren't going to be happy, and the poll shows that. As of this post, almost 50% of the viewers are in support of what CSI did once Souquet forfeited. That percentage has been increasing steadily all day as people take a deep breath and realize that this was a reasonable approach.

There have been very reasonable explanations of why this is completely different from a regular double elimination tournament and there have been many examples now showing it was handled in a similar way in other pool events and other sports.

Obviously, nothing Mark says will change your mind (just like all those other posts showing similarly handled situations), so I suggest you find something else on which to focus your moral outrage.

--Steve

50% is a good number seriously ? Half or better of that number are Shane fans ,,
Examples ,, yes none in pool where forfeits to the next round is a common occurrence
You don't think a reason should not have been given at the time they announced Shane was coming back from the dead to play ,, iif planet pool had done this you would be leading the charge ,,
The fact is they should have known about this before hand if the had done their homework and there should have been a penalty in place to discourage it from happening and there should have been a announcement on why they made their decision ,,
Plain and simple

1

 

[one stroke]

You know, not everyone is super slick when it comes to doing more than reading posts on AZ or working more than basic stuff on an iPad. Mark asked me to post his comment because he didn't know how to copy and paste into different threads. I know that may be hard for some to believe but it's the truth.

Having spoken to Mark (and having known him for many years) I extend my personal assurance that Mark is not waiting for things to simmer down and make something up. He's just really busy and like many of us older guys prefers to work off a computer v a mobile device. If you do not want to accept that at face value, and give the man the benefit of the doubt until he has the opportunity to present his case, there is not much more I can say to you.

As a personal comment: Mark and CSI probably do more for pool than anyone else in this country. And he always tries to do the right thing. Now in the end, you (and others) may not like his explanation. But that just means you disagree. He still deserves respect for being one of the stand up guys and promoters in our sport.

Lou Figueroa

Yep just like Obama does for simply being the president

1

 

[lfigueroa]

This is CSI's standard response ,, we do what we want when we want we will tell you why later ,, and they don't care who likes it or not ,, and if you don't you are stupid
What they need is a PR guy because clearly it's not Mark's or Ozzy's strong suit ,,

What they should have done and it's miles above their thinking ,is tell you the reason why they made their choice just like any other professional entity would have done
Oh that's right it's CSI what in the world was I thinking


1

How it came to pass that I spoke to Mark was that I texted him suggesting he address this issue sooner than later. It's kind of the #1 rule in PR. He called me to discuss it and bottom-line is that for any number of reasons he is not set up to do that at this moment.

I agree -- CSI should be prepared to address issues like this on the fly and perhaps some day the operation will reach that level of sophistication. But they're not there yet.

Lou Figueroa

 

[bowman]

Well another farce of course ko was crapped on he should have have got a bye to the final end off...ralf was a bad boy ff a semi final match he jumped ship to fly to china for team event sure very important to jump ship when the damn team event does not start untill next week or so he plays in same team Germany with thorston did he jump ship in his semi ?? no because there was no hurry to get to china ..there is no excuse on ralfs part he knew when this event finished He acted unprofessionally and i do not care what anyone says ..He should not be invited again IMO..as for bringing a player back after been defeated is just plain crazy and a big joke but of course it had to be S.V.B .. favouritism say no more ..As someone stated ko should have refused to play .and if svb had anything about him he should have refused to play if it had been other way round svb would have been complaining about it ..If they really had to bring a player back in then it should have been done through out all the 4.. 8 ball groups and whoever had the best losers record go through ..Do not care what any of you say svb was beat and out of the event just like the other 3 that finished second yes he was beat guys and ko should have got a bye to the final and everyone would be happy instead we have to debate who is right who is wrong ..If c.s,i had done this instead of bringing a loser back then there is no arguments shame as c.s.i is doing a lot for pool more than most and i am sure they will learn from this as well and become better and stronger in there decisions ...

 

[banditgrrr]

I just spoke to Mark and he asked that I post his comment from another thread into other relevant threads. So here it is.

My suggestion is that all take into consideration that CSI has several huge events still going. Mark does want to provide an explanation and will do so as soon as the dust settles.

Lou Figueroa

Having spent several days at the event, seeing what happened, talking with several of the players, overhearing conversations of CSI staff.....I've come to my own conclusions.

1. I'd be extremely surprised if there is a 2nd Annual Invitational. I can just about guarantee that several of the foreign players will not come back next year if invited.

2. When Ko Pin Yi was informed that Shane was taking Ralf's spot, and Ko protested and said he would not play Shane, threatening him with "if you don't play Shane you will not get paid" was completely wrong.

3. Investigating Dennis because they thought he dumped just to screw Shane was ridiculous. Shane complains to CSI about something, they start an investigation. A different player complains about something Shane does and it gets swept under the carpet.

4. Ozzy made the statement to Mike Dechaine that "this is a show, not a tournament." If that is the case, I hope all the players appreciated their appearance money. From my understanding, There was 8k for first, 5k for second. To me, that means it's a tournament. Ozzy can call it whatever he chooses, but I can guarantee you EVERY player that participated considered it a tournament.

5. One of the CSI staff made the comment immediately after the tournament that "we F'd up and should not have put Shane in that position." Well, at least 1 person on the staff has it right.

6. Words directly from Mark's mouth was "we made a decision to put Shane in that spot because the people paying for the stream paid to watch matches and we're not going to have a forfeit." Based on the several threads here, I believe the people he thought he was trying to make happy are the people that are most dissatisfied with his decision.


All in all, I believe the BCA Nationals was a success and the amateur portion of the event was run very smoothly, notwithstanding time glitches which caused several singles players to forfeit due to last minute changes. On the other hand, the invitational event was a cluster F. There's not much they can say in an "official statement" that will change the minds of most on here, including the people that support their PPV.

 

[beetle]

I'm a pool fan. Maybe you'd prefer to watch Ko standing by an empty table, but not me. If Micky Mouse was the group leader after Souquet forfeited, I'd be happier to see Micky Mouse vs Ko rather than Ko vs. an empty table.

Since you've repeatedly expressed your disdain for Ozzy and CSI, I think that makes it clear how unbiased you are. Smell a little blood in the water, did you?

50% is a good number seriously ? Half or better of that number are Shane fans ,,
Examples ,, yes none in pool where forfeits to the next round is a common occurrence
You don't think a reason should not have been given at the time they announced Shane was coming back from the dead to play ,, iif planet pool had done this you would be leading the charge ,,
The fact is they should have known about this before hand if the had done their homework and there should have been a penalty in place to discourage it from happening and there should have been a announcement on why they made their decision ,,
Plain and simple

1

 

[lfigueroa]

50% is a good number seriously ? Half or better of that number are Shane fans ,,
Examples ,, yes none in pool where forfeits to the next round is a common occurrence
You don't think a reason should not have been given at the time they announced Shane was coming back from the dead to play ,, iif planet pool had done this you would be leading the charge ,,
The fact is they should have known about this before hand if the had done their homework and there should have been a penalty in place to discourage it from happening and there should have been a announcement on why they made their decision ,,
Plain and simple

1

How do you figure an elite guy like Souquet is going to bag it that late into a tournament?! If there is any outrage to be directed at someone, try Ralf for booking a flight before the end of the event.

CSI was trying to do something new with the format and the forfeit happened out of the blue with virtually no notice. I'm sure they'll be ready for it next time.

Lou Figueroa

 

[Magog30]

a round robin format to determine who advances is different than losing and being invited back. Think of the round robin as qualifying for the next stage. If the top qualifier is unable to play then it is standard practice to invite the next best finisher to play. It would be similar to being invited to the U.S. Open because someone with a higher rank withdrew from the tournament. It is not the same as losing a single elimination tournament and then advancing because the player who beat you withdrew.

 

[chevybob20]

The US Amateur Championship sends the second place qualifier when the first place qualifier can't make it. I know this because I made it the the Championships after finishing second in the Atlanta qualifier.

The Shane Haters Club members are worse than the Shane fan club by far. I fear a Jonestown type mass suicide when SVB comes out of this slump.

 

[spartan]

The shame of all this was CSI could have easily done right by KO having a KO/KO finals and also done right by the people who bought the live stream.
In place of the KO/Ralf match CSI could have put together a Challenge match to fill the slot. Something like KO/Shane, KO/Dennis or Shane/Dennis race to 8 for $1,000.
I'm sure the people who bought the stream would have been happy to see that.

I stay with the idea of a blind draw from all the guys finished 2nd ( or tie for 2nd ) in their group.
Or just play the final KO vs KO and then one more exhibition match, something like little KO vs SVB.

Yes in place of the forfeited semifinal 5pm, they should played an challenge exhibition match - it can be scotch doubles maybe Europe vs USA or West vs East. They can use about $1500 of the forfeited prizemoney of Ralf (which about $2000) for the exhibition match prizemoney. After the exhibition match then 7pm final will be between the 2 Ko brothers
I am sure more PPV customers like myself would have an interesting challenge match in place of a tainted semi between Shane and Ko which should have not happened at all

I find this hilarious , I have played tournaments. In Hockey baseball soccer lacrosse tennis ping pong horse shoes pool basketball. Softball fishing darts pool horseshoes
Shuffleboard and I'm probably missing something ,
Not once have I ever seen a eliminated player or team come back from (Elimination )
So although it may have happened before it's certainly not the standard by any stretch of the imagination
Ko got F&$ed is what the bottom line is no way on earth did this not have a mental effect on his game ,
CSI dropped the ball on this one , they should have known there was a overlap and this was a possibility ,, and what they should have done since they didn't know is grow a pair and tell those players they will never be invited to another CSI event if they forfeit
At the end of the day it was avoidable and lack of checks and balances allowed it to happen


1

Correct, of cos there are some examples mentioned of instances in other sports where the 2nd place finisher who replaces the forfeited player but those are different cicumstances or are exceptions to rule.

 

[Hawk]

a round robin format to determine who advances is different than losing and being invited back. Think of the round robin as qualifying for the next stage. If the top qualifier is unable to play then it is standard practice to invite the next best finisher to play. It would be similar to being invited to the U.S. Open because someone with a higher rank withdrew from the tournament. It is not the same as losing a single elimination tournament and then advancing because the player who beat you withdrew.

The issue I have with bringing a loser back due to a forfeit is, it should be the next best "Overall" qualifier. This makes it fair to everyone. It will also make every rack in the preliminary rounds important, even in a blow-out because more than likely it will come down to "rack differential" to determine who gets to advance.

 

[spartan]

Having spent several days at the event, seeing what happened, talking with several of the players, overhearing conversations of CSI staff.....I've come to my own conclusions.

1. I'd be extremely surprised if there is a 2nd Annual Invitational. I can just about guarantee that several of the foreign players will not come back next year if invited.

2. When Ko Pin Yi was informed that Shane was taking Ralf's spot, and Ko protested and said he would not play Shane, threatening him with "if you don't play Shane you will not get paid" was completely wrong.

3. Investigating Dennis because they thought he dumped just to screw Shane was ridiculous. Shane complains to CSI about something, they start an investigation. A different player complains about something Shane does and it gets swept under the carpet.

4. Ozzy made the statement to Mike Dechaine that "this is a show, not a tournament." If that is the case, I hope all the players appreciated their appearance money. From my understanding, There was 8k for first, 5k for second. To me, that means it's a tournament. Ozzy can call it whatever he chooses, but I can guarantee you EVERY player that participated considered it a tournament.

5. One of the CSI staff made the comment immediately after the tournament that "we F'd up and should not have put Shane in that position." Well, at least 1 person on the staff has it right.

6. Words directly from Mark's mouth was "we made a decision to put Shane in that spot because the people paying for the stream paid to watch matches and we're not going to have a forfeit." Based on the several threads here, I believe the people he thought he was trying to make happy are the people that are most dissatisfied with his decision.


All in all, I believe the BCA Nationals was a success and the amateur portion of the event was run very smoothly, notwithstanding time glitches which caused several singles players to forfeit due to last minute changes. On the other hand, the invitational event was a cluster F. There's not much they can say in an "official statement" that will change the minds of most on here, including the people that support their PPV.

Wow I mean wow... thanks for the excellent insider info
This is really ridiculous
No wonder when Ko and Shane came out to play both look flustered upset especially Ko. Forcing Ko to play Shane by threatening "if you don't play Shane you will not get paid". is simply strong arm tactics and uncalled for
For sure the Taiwanese or foreign players will not come back next year even if invited the way they were treated, It is not a case now of CSI saying we will choose who to invite...it is now a case of whether the invited players will choose CSI. It is the players saying to CSI we will call you do not call us. :smile:

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Name callin

Hey is this the name calling thread or is that Celtic's ? Mark says cut it out, Lol.

Thanks Banditgrr for your eyewitness insights...

Thanks Lou for conveying the message...

I voted yes to let Shane play. But today after learning what Banditgrr says maybe I can see more of the side that some of you with rent clothing and ashen bodies are laying down. Hopefully something was in place that was written down and they followed it. If some of the players are upset that they won't play again if asked, I assume it is partially because of the substitution and the perceived unfair treatment of non Americans.

Either way I assume Ralf has caught Deutschland fever and just wants to keep the torch burning the was lit at the World Cup event. I don't know when he told them, but if it wasn't at 11a.m., then that was definitely a Deuootschy move.

 

[Lonestar_jim]

Sorry you couldn't stomach it anymore yesterday, Spartan.

Thanks for all your efforts !!!