LJJ vs. Sigel TV, my thoughts

Since so little of the match was shown, does anyone know whether it was Sigel's break that was giving him the edge, or was LJJ just making a lot more general errors?
 
vector2 said:
Since so little of the match was shown, does anyone know whether it was Sigel's break that was giving him the edge, or was LJJ just making a lot more general errors?
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From what I have read in the pool mags, LJJ missed some very makeable key balls and 8-balls. And Sigel did not.
 
That's OK with me.

bobroberts said:
He reminds me of the guy who owns the Dallas cowboys.Has the money but no game and is a wannabee
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He can be a wannabee with no game - as long as he has the money to improve pool and also apparently has the know-how to get it done.

TY & GL
 
Does this mean the great O.H.B. might come out of retirement and show these young cats a thing or two?:D :p
 
Cornerman said:
I can honestly say that there were enough positives from the broadcast that given appropriate feedback and criticism (of which Deno should have his finger on the pulse that is this board), the shows will just get better and better.

First the negatives, to get them out of the way:

Too much shock from KT as to how they missed shots. LJJ hasn't been the top female in a decade, and Sigel is still in rust mode aftaer 10 plus years out of competition.

Rules confusion.

I don't mind that they had the 8-ball on the break as a win, but to say that it's because they're playing professional rules? The 8-ball on the break hasn't won in decades.

It wasn't explained clearly enough to the average player that it was "open after the break." They danced all around the subject, but never said it concisely enough. Even I was confused as to whether or not they truly understood the rules that they (the announcer) were discussing.

Not enough strategy discussion. I don't know if it was the editing, but both players were going through their shots relatively quickly. 8-ball is a thinking game as far as runouts go. A little more discussion is necessary especially comparing it to 9-ball.

Too many times saying "and 8-ball is a much tougher game than 9-ball." 8-ball is a different game than 9-ball. Too say it's tougher is misleading at best. Down right wrong at worst.

Too many times saying "Mike jumped right up" after missing a shot. Mike Sigel has ALWAYS jumped up after shots. He and Allen Hopkins are the fathers of jumping up after a shot. So, it's not an issue for them.

Now on to the positives:

All those negatives above were really right around the same theme: the announcer's responsibility to the audience. And they did their thing about 100 times better than Mitch Laurance could.

California Kim Davenport has the perfect voice and humor to be the color commentary. (He only made one double negative).

The view of the table was what I'd rather see... that is, a 3D shot from above, rather than "2D" from directly above, from the side.

Sigel looked good. Dapper. I'm glad he left his trademark vest at home.

Loree Jon looked stunning. She looked happy. Nervous, but happy. The closup of her showed just how pretty this woman is.

In the end, the play was sub-standard for 8-ball professionals, but I can see good out of that. It will only get better. Loree Jon missed late so many times on relatively easy racks.

The slow cloth did played a factor. So did the tight pockets.

So... how do they make things better?


Fred
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts Fred. Here are my thoughts: mmmm donuts argh sick of these commercials hey wait I like that car what a tampon commercial man Im sick of these commercials mmmmm beer
 
While we hated seeing so many commercials, and they cut up the flow, that is not the IPT's or KT's fault. That is a necessary evil that makes money for the show. The advertisers are the paying customers that fund having the show on at all. Even DVD movies now show some of the scenes that didn't make it to the final reel. I think for every 15 minutes shown in a movie, they spent days actually filming.

Why do you think they call daytime tv soap operas? Because they pitch soap every 5 minutes.

To get around the commercials, KT could buy up late, late night after his Natural Cures infomercials and turn the pool productions into one long infomercial too. However, he wants to put it into mainstream television by broadcasting on local and national prime time spots, as well as other times, to get blanket coverage.

Think to the day when KT can stop paying for tv coverage and have producers bidding to air an IPT event exclusively.

Think to the day when the IPT can charge those inflated prices just to have a Coke commercial on at halftime like the Super Bowl. I know it's wishful thinking, but then you can see that the commercials may some day be valued as a way to rank the popularity of pool.

I truly hope there will be internet feed for international and hardcore fans that want to see more complete matches.
 
rackmsuckr said:
KT could buy up late, late night after his Natural Cures infomercials and turn the pool productions into one long infomercial too.
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I am sorry to say that is exactly what he plans, you don't think the 300 + broadcasts are anything but. This is just with one match wait till he has thousands in the can. They will be cut an recut till you have no idea what you are seeing and they can play for years to come. This was the basis of the old medicine shows. They had a singer and juggler and between the acts they pitched the products, actually this is the basis of all Television. It can be done well or badly but it really won't matter since he is the only sponsor and all that will matter is if the 800 number phones rang and he sold some crap. You will never actually see anything that will resemble a tournament match just 30 and 60 minute snippets in time spots he buys. Good or bad, this is what he does, it's his business. The bad part is if decides he has had enough after a year or so and junks the tour he has enough taped to do this indefinitely and the players are just out of luck. He is getting a pretty valuable product cheap and he knows it.
 
macguy said:
He is getting a pretty valuable product cheap and he knows it.
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I'm not sure how cheap $13+ million is and I don't know how valuable the product is either if no one has been willing to pay the players big money until now. The fact that he is blanketing coverage increases the 'product's' value, and that alone is worthwhile.

So even if he does drop out in a couple years, some players have been paid quite handsomely and pool has gotten more exposure than possibly every audience for every pool movie put together, especially if it goes on the internet.

And it has built an advertising base so that successors (if there are any) have something to build on.
 
rackmsuckr said:
I'm not sure how cheap $13+ million is and I don't know how valuable the product is either if no one has been willing to pay the players big money until now. The fact that he is blanketing coverage increases the 'product's' value, and that alone is worthwhile.

So even if he does drop out in a couple years, some players have been paid quite handsomely and pool has gotten more exposure than possibly every audience for every pool movie put together, especially if it goes on the internet.

And it has built an advertising base so that successors (if there are any) have something to build on.
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I will tell you something about the power of the informercial crap. Ever hear of Stephen Paul? No, I bet not but I bet you have heard of Esteban a second rate guitar player, (that is being generous) who has sold millions of copied of his CD's and now sells an almost worthless guitar on late night TV. Not long ago he was at a music festival and he performed. When he was on one of the stages you could not get near the stage and people lined up to get his autograph. This guy who probably could not get a job playing anywhere has made himself a household name not to mention very wealthy. This could actually happen to some of the players that get featured in the IPT matches. They will be seen so much they may be able to parlay it into something regardless what ultimately happens to the tour. I would say there will be very few though that actually ever make any real money and KT will pick and choose who gets featured based on what ever criteria he uses. A little serious ass kissing may go a long way when it comes to being one of his favorites and I think a lot of you think the same way as well. It will be interesting to see what happens though.
 
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I don't understand

Did they edit the match differently around the country? The show I watched showed at least 7 or 8 racks from beginning to end. LLJ won 4 games, all shots of those racks were shown. They showed 43 of her shots, 32 of which consisted of her run outs of 4 games. This does not count Sigel's runouts. I agree a lot of the match was edited and I don't like it either. But to all you people moaning about this format not going to make it on T.V. Let me ask you, what do you think poker does? They edit like crazy and only show the dramatic moments or key hands. Their ratings are pretty good as is the sponsorship which also included poker products and sites. I am sure kt is going to format pool the same way and hope it catches on. Keep away from any negative until we see. They had about 40 minutes of show to get everything they wanted in and I think they did a good job. It actually does not make a difference if it was good or not. It was on. When was the last time or anytime you ever saw pool on primetime. A major accomplishment in its own right. And you people talking about being on 300 times? That is not 300 times on your channel but around the country in all the little towns that don't have cable or out of the way places. He is trying to spread the word. My FSN network is not playing it 300 times.
I would like to know however what the ratings were. In my area they had it on twice that night. It would be nice to know how many people watched both shows or one or the other. Hockey only gets about a .9 share, which is not much. If they got to one it would be great. So Deno what share did they get?
 
nfty9er said:
Did they edit the match differently around the country? The show I watched showed at least 7 or 8 racks from beginning to end. LLJ won 4 games, all shots of those racks were shown. They showed 43 of her shots, 32 of which consisted of her run outs of 4 games. This does not count Sigel's runouts. I agree a lot of the match was edited and I don't like it either. But to all you people moaning about this format not going to make it on T.V. Let me ask you, what do you think poker does? They edit like crazy and only show the dramatic moments or key hands. Their ratings are pretty good as is the sponsorship which also included poker products and sites. I am sure kt is going to format pool the same way and hope it catches on. Keep away from any negative until we see. They had about 40 minutes of show to get everything they wanted in and I think they did a good job. It actually does not make a difference if it was good or not. It was on. When was the last time or anytime you ever saw pool on primetime. A major accomplishment in its own right. And you people talking about being on 300 times? That is not 300 times on your channel but around the country in all the little towns that don't have cable or out of the way places. He is trying to spread the word. My FSN network is not playing it 300 times.
I would like to know however what the ratings were. In my area they had it on twice that night. It would be nice to know how many people watched both shows or one or the other. Hockey only gets about a .9 share, which is not much. If they got to one it would be great. So Deno what share did they get?
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This is just in from the email updates:

IPT WORLD 8-BALL CHAMPIONSHIP A RATINGS HIT!
Premiere Event on Fox Sports Net Racks Up Big Ratings

For Immediate Release

Los Angeles, CA. (Nov. 23rd, 2005): The premiere television event of the International Pool Tour, the IPT World 8-Ball Championship, aired last Thursday November 17th on FSN and resulted in an astounding 25% ratings increase over previous weeks on the network. Both the 9:30pm and 10:30pm prime-time airings of the IPT event on the special edition of FSN's "Best Damn Sports Show Period" bolstered ratings by over 25% in the timeslots, which surpassed expectations from both Fox Sports Net and the International Pool Tour.

"We are thrilled with the ratings success of our first major pool event on prime-time tv in America," said IPT Founder Kevin Trudeau. "It shows that there's a huge and growing audience for pool if it is presented in an exciting, world-class way. The good news for the IPT- and for pool in general- is that we've only just begun. Our next series of tv shows, from our 'King of the Hill' event, will be even more spectacular."

The IPT "King of the Hill Invitational 8-Ball Shoot-out", to be held in Orlando, Florida Nov. 30th-Dec. 4th, will feature 42 of the greatest pool players ever- all playing for a huge $1 million prize fund.

Some of the legendary players participating in the historic "King of the Hill" tournament include Hall of Famers Mike "The Mouth" Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Buddy Hall, Mike Massey, Ed Kelly, and Efren Reyes. Other pool greats competing include Johnny Archer, Allison Fisher and Thorsten Hohmann.

The series of tv shows centered on the event will the most expensive and high production-value programs in the history of pool, and will include "behind the scenes" reality segments and other special features.

"The smash ratings on FSN is a great start for the new golden era of pool," said Jon Denny, Executive Director of the IPT. "It's like the saying: Build it and they will come. We're excited that we're building a powerful tv franchise and brand."
 
I am watching the match for the first time. Oh my, the commentary is absolutely ridiculous, I am about to put it on mute. Atrocious comments by KT. Makes me want to cringe.

Kelly
 
That is hype which is o.k.

rackmsuckr said:
This is just in from the email updates:

IPT WORLD 8-BALL CHAMPIONSHIP A RATINGS HIT!
Premiere Event on Fox Sports Net Racks Up Big Ratings

For Immediate Release

Los Angeles, CA. (Nov. 23rd, 2005): The premiere television event of the International Pool Tour, the IPT World 8-Ball Championship, aired last Thursday November 17th on FSN and resulted in an astounding 25% ratings increase over previous weeks on the network. Both the 9:30pm and 10:30pm prime-time airings of the IPT event on the special edition of FSN's "Best Damn Sports Show Period" bolstered ratings by over 25% in the timeslots, which surpassed expectations from both Fox Sports Net and the International Pool Tour.

"We are thrilled with the ratings success of our first major pool event on prime-time tv in America," said IPT Founder Kevin Trudeau. "It shows that there's a huge and growing audience for pool if it is presented in an exciting, world-class way. The good news for the IPT- and for pool in general- is that we've only just begun. Our next series of tv shows, from our 'King of the Hill' event, will be even more spectacular."

The IPT "King of the Hill Invitational 8-Ball Shoot-out", to be held in Orlando, Florida Nov. 30th-Dec. 4th, will feature 42 of the greatest pool players ever- all playing for a huge $1 million prize fund.

Some of the legendary players participating in the historic "King of the Hill" tournament include Hall of Famers Mike "The Mouth" Sigel, Nick Varner, Jim Rempe, Buddy Hall, Mike Massey, Ed Kelly, and Efren Reyes. Other pool greats competing include Johnny Archer, Allison Fisher and Thorsten Hohmann.

The series of tv shows centered on the event will the most expensive and high production-value programs in the history of pool, and will include "behind the scenes" reality segments and other special features.

"The smash ratings on FSN is a great start for the new golden era of pool," said Jon Denny, Executive Director of the IPT. "It's like the saying: Build it and they will come. We're excited that we're building a powerful tv franchise and brand."
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I saw that release however it does not give the rating share. That is what really counts. The IPT are not going to say anything negative and I don't blame them but the rating share in prime time is what can tell the real story as compared to other programming.
 
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